Opinions on flaws in a new cue?
- Thread starter gforces1911
- Start date
He won't tell. I just hope it's not who is building my cue. Of course, I have never heard of anything flawed coming out of his shop....but you just never know for sure.
Lisa
Lisa
This is a very interesting thread topic and I find different people's responses quite intriguing. Here's my perception of this situation.
I've been around long enough to know that 'perfection' is rarely, if ever, seen in a custom made cue stick...especially the more hand-made it is. For that reason, I don't generally don't expect it. You will commonly encounter things that are slightly off, glue lines around inlays, very fine finish scratches that haven't been buffed out totally, low spot in the finish where it's slightly sunk into a piece of end grain, etc. If you want, you can pick apart just about any cue as having its issues here and there.
However, that being said and having not seen pictures of this cue that is at issue, this buyer obviously had an issue with the wrap groove being cut too deep (or finish was applied too thick or a combination of both) and ring sets not being aligned. This is most definitely a valid complaint on a new $2000+ cue built by a well-known, seasoned cuemaker. These are most likely errors in the construction and not slight imperfections with the work. But again, we've not even seen the cue so this is supposition and if he is OK with it, that's cool.
Lisa, yes, even Skip is human. However, unlike some cuemakers out there Skip has an excellent reputation for making things right in the event there is an issue. BTW, we finally sold the inlaid rosewood cue you liked so much.
Sean
I've been around long enough to know that 'perfection' is rarely, if ever, seen in a custom made cue stick...especially the more hand-made it is. For that reason, I don't generally don't expect it. You will commonly encounter things that are slightly off, glue lines around inlays, very fine finish scratches that haven't been buffed out totally, low spot in the finish where it's slightly sunk into a piece of end grain, etc. If you want, you can pick apart just about any cue as having its issues here and there.
However, that being said and having not seen pictures of this cue that is at issue, this buyer obviously had an issue with the wrap groove being cut too deep (or finish was applied too thick or a combination of both) and ring sets not being aligned. This is most definitely a valid complaint on a new $2000+ cue built by a well-known, seasoned cuemaker. These are most likely errors in the construction and not slight imperfections with the work. But again, we've not even seen the cue so this is supposition and if he is OK with it, that's cool.
Lisa, yes, even Skip is human. However, unlike some cuemakers out there Skip has an excellent reputation for making things right in the event there is an issue. BTW, we finally sold the inlaid rosewood cue you liked so much.
Sean
Well said
Well said. It is not Skip Weston. The last thing I want is other cuemaker's getting pulled into the vortex of a post on AZ. I just wanted to know if the imperfections that I noticed were valid issues with craftsmanship. I believe that the rings should line up- I have viewed some other cues online that are of the same motif/genre and I believe they should line up. The cuemaker basically acknowledged that it is not his usual practice. Cuemaking is tough and we are a tough crowd. 2k+ for a cue was tough for me- it was a lot of dough but I don't think it clouded my perception at all in terms of expectations.
In all fairness the cue plays exceptionally well- like a fine instrument IMHO. I love the hit, balance, measurements etc. True that I did want the cue made for aesthetic reasons as well but on the whole it is still an A.
cueaddicts said:This is a very interesting thread topic and I find different people's responses quite intriguing. Here's my perception of this situation.
I've been around long enough to know that 'perfection' is rarely, if ever, seen in a custom made cue stick...especially the more hand-made it is. For that reason, I don't generally don't expect it. You will commonly encounter things that are slightly off, glue lines around inlays, very fine finish scratches that haven't been buffed out totally, low spot in the finish where it's slightly sunk into a piece of end grain, etc. If you want, you can pick apart just about any cue as having its issues here and there.
However, that being said and having not seen pictures of this cue that is at issue, this buyer obviously had an issue with the wrap groove being cut too deep (or finish was applied too thick or a combination of both) and ring sets not being aligned. This is most definitely a valid complaint on a new $2000+ cue built by a well-known, seasoned cuemaker. These are most likely errors in the construction and not slight imperfections with the work. But again, we've not even seen the cue so this is supposition and if he is OK with it, that's cool.
Lisa, yes, even Skip is human. However, unlike some cuemakers out there Skip has an excellent reputation for making things right in the event there is an issue. BTW, we finally sold the inlaid rosewood cue you liked so much.
Sean
Well said. It is not Skip Weston. The last thing I want is other cuemaker's getting pulled into the vortex of a post on AZ. I just wanted to know if the imperfections that I noticed were valid issues with craftsmanship. I believe that the rings should line up- I have viewed some other cues online that are of the same motif/genre and I believe they should line up. The cuemaker basically acknowledged that it is not his usual practice. Cuemaking is tough and we are a tough crowd. 2k+ for a cue was tough for me- it was a lot of dough but I don't think it clouded my perception at all in terms of expectations.
In all fairness the cue plays exceptionally well- like a fine instrument IMHO. I love the hit, balance, measurements etc. True that I did want the cue made for aesthetic reasons as well but on the whole it is still an A.
Another thing
If the cue was handmade or even pantograph (I have limited knowledge on how exactly those things work but I have an idea) I would have been a lot more loose. I think that it was CNC in re the inlays
cueaddicts said:This is a very interesting thread topic and I find different people's responses quite intriguing. Here's my perception of this situation.
I've been around long enough to know that 'perfection' is rarely, if ever, seen in a custom made cue stick...especially the more hand-made it is. For that reason, I don't generally don't expect it. You will commonly encounter things that are slightly off, glue lines around inlays, very fine finish scratches that haven't been buffed out totally, low spot in the finish where it's slightly sunk into a piece of end grain, etc. If you want, you can pick apart just about any cue as having its issues here and there.
However, that being said and having not seen pictures of this cue that is at issue, this buyer obviously had an issue with the wrap groove being cut too deep (or finish was applied too thick or a combination of both) and ring sets not being aligned. This is most definitely a valid complaint on a new $2000+ cue built by a well-known, seasoned cuemaker. These are most likely errors in the construction and not slight imperfections with the work. But again, we've not even seen the cue so this is supposition and if he is OK with it, that's cool.
Lisa, yes, even Skip is human. However, unlike some cuemakers out there Skip has an excellent reputation for making things right in the event there is an issue. BTW, we finally sold the inlaid rosewood cue you liked so much.
Sean
If the cue was handmade or even pantograph (I have limited knowledge on how exactly those things work but I have an idea) I would have been a lot more loose. I think that it was CNC in re the inlays
cueaddicts said:Lisa, yes, even Skip is human. However, unlike some cuemakers out there Skip has an excellent reputation for making things right in the event there is an issue. BTW, we finally sold the inlaid rosewood cue you liked so much.
Sean
Oh, I know Skip's human. I think I was referring more to the fact that I have never heard of anyone having an 'issue' with anything coming out of his shop. He strikes me as someone who won't let a cue leave his shop if HE'S not happy with it...and he certainly knows better than I what to look for!
Man...someone got a really nice cue! That thing was a beauty. Was it an AZer that got it? Just curious.
Lisa
Ah crap....I guess I did say flawed. But that is not exactly what I meant to say. Think I'll just shut-up and head off for my 9 Ball league match.
Lisa
Lisa
PoolSleuth
Banned
gforces1911 said:
May I ask (2) questions?
Is the Cuemaker from Florida?
Have you contacted the Cuemake, and what was their reply? Did they offer a Fix?
$2,000.00++ is not Chicken Feed for a Cue.
Not from FL
Not from Florida. I have had a lot of successful purchases from FL- Justis, Nitti, Howard and Omen.
I did contact the cuemaker and he basically said that it was not his ideal and that he does the best that he can and that he is only human. Did not offer to fix or replace. Said that the lip would wear away with play and use and that he hoped that this did not effect my appreciation of the cue.
And yes it is the single most expensive cue that I have ever bought. I usually buy on the low end because I don't have that kind of money laying around and because I consider myself more of a player than a cue collector. I do have cues- but oftentimes I sell them if the fit is not right for my play or if a friend fits the cue better. I am not a reseller or dealer of any sort. I just went on a quest this year to find a cue that made me happy and would make pool balls go in the pockets. This particular cue was one that I have pined over for a number of years but just never had the dough to get one. I figured that I should get one before time passed me by or passed the maker by.
I told him that I understood that he was human and I would play on.
PoolSleuth said:
Not from Florida. I have had a lot of successful purchases from FL- Justis, Nitti, Howard and Omen.
I did contact the cuemaker and he basically said that it was not his ideal and that he does the best that he can and that he is only human. Did not offer to fix or replace. Said that the lip would wear away with play and use and that he hoped that this did not effect my appreciation of the cue.
And yes it is the single most expensive cue that I have ever bought. I usually buy on the low end because I don't have that kind of money laying around and because I consider myself more of a player than a cue collector. I do have cues- but oftentimes I sell them if the fit is not right for my play or if a friend fits the cue better. I am not a reseller or dealer of any sort. I just went on a quest this year to find a cue that made me happy and would make pool balls go in the pockets. This particular cue was one that I have pined over for a number of years but just never had the dough to get one. I figured that I should get one before time passed me by or passed the maker by.
I told him that I understood that he was human and I would play on.
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Just my 2 cents. Since he did not offer to fix
problem, I think you should reveal his identity.
I bought a new cue recently from an up & coming
cue maker who has gotten some praise on here.
Both shafts were somewhat warped. I contacted
him, told him I wouldn't reveal his name. I didn't
ask him to do anything ( the cue had a nice hit and
was reasonably priced) but I kind of expected him
to offer. He didn't.
I have decided I don't like the hit as well as I thought
I did. I'd like to trade or sell- I've only played with it
three times - but it's got 2 shafts that are slightly
warped. I'm probably screwed.
I paid about $550 for it, not $2000. I think you
have a lot of people nervous wondering if this is
somebody they might be dealing with.
I promised my cuemaker I'd not tell who he is.
If you didn't do that you owe him nothing. He basically
told you shit happens.
problem, I think you should reveal his identity.
I bought a new cue recently from an up & coming
cue maker who has gotten some praise on here.
Both shafts were somewhat warped. I contacted
him, told him I wouldn't reveal his name. I didn't
ask him to do anything ( the cue had a nice hit and
was reasonably priced) but I kind of expected him
to offer. He didn't.
I have decided I don't like the hit as well as I thought
I did. I'd like to trade or sell- I've only played with it
three times - but it's got 2 shafts that are slightly
warped. I'm probably screwed.
I paid about $550 for it, not $2000. I think you
have a lot of people nervous wondering if this is
somebody they might be dealing with.
I promised my cuemaker I'd not tell who he is.
If you didn't do that you owe him nothing. He basically
told you shit happens.
gforces1911 said:
hondo said:
I'm not knocking what you are saying here, hondo, but is your expectation that a $550 custom made cue is perfect? As I tried to say some posts above, NO CUE is perfect. Shafts are certainly no exception. They almost all have some degree of warpage, roll-out, whatever you want to call it that causes it to not roll perfectly true. However, mostly what you'll see is very minor wobble. Sure, noticeably warped shafts, especially to the degree that it would affect play, is a real problem and should be corrected on anew cue.
But, I find it humorous when somebody show me how a cue rolls at shows and it has about 0.25mm of run-out, and then wants to beat me to death on the price saying the cue isn't straight.
Cues are wood. Shafts are wood and wood moves. If you get a new cue and the shafts are perfectly straight, enjoy it now, because the deck is stacked against you that they are gonna move over time. Buyers need to be informed and educated.
Sean
cueaddicts said:
a 550 NEW cue should be pretty close to perfect in my opinion...at least in workmanship. Thats a good amount of money, more than a lot of people make in a week. Minor wobble in a shaft isn't that big of a deal unless they come that way, (two months later it shouldn't be a huge deal..after all different climates and it is wood as you say) but rings that don't match up is really a workmanship issue. Not offering to make it right in some manner is poor business. While that 550 cue might not be fancy it shouldn't be a product you look at and wish you never purchased. If a cuemaker can't make a good cue at that cost, then they should raise their prices until they can make a good cue.
In the current market spending 500-1000 isn't much for a cue, but its still a major purchase for most people. I know I buy new things because I like to be the one to screw them up *l* not get them screwed up. Just my two cents.....
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Do you adjust what you will pay for a cue or allow in trade if the cue is not correct? I DO!! "STRAIGHT" is also somewhat subjective. What is straight to one person might not be to another. What is STRAIGHT when we are selling might not be whan we're buying.A flaw might not be significant when we're selling but it might mean several hun when we're buying. Most shafts are maple. Maple is one of the more unstable woods. However, I have over 20SW shafts and several B. and G. SZAM shafts (and Dennis) that have moved very little if at all. I've had MANY meucci,mcd,etc. and MOST move a little to a lot in a short time frame. Wonder why? The straight factor is more of an issue being bought to play with,and, if it's not the customers cup of tea,resold. Minor warpage or runout is not,IMHO, as large a factor on vintage collectables. Back to the topic of the thread---2 to 3 dimes is a lot to pay for a cnc'd cue which has the amount and kind of flaws I envision based on the owners description.Based on the disappointing performance of these types of cues on the secondary it will be difficult to recoup his/her investment if the cue was perfect. I would be a VERY nervous owner. I would have the cue corrected,replaced or I would get a price adjustment/refund. Cost of materials on this cue is probably betwwen 3 and 6% so there is a lot of room for adjustment. If I received satisfaction I would post that on this forum (not the maker's name) and everyone would go their happy ways. If I did NOT receive satisfacation I would disclose the maker in order to help other potential buyers make informed decisions.cueaddicts said:
ribdoner said:
Absolutely.
ribdoner said:
That's simple...that's because you are talking about premium cuemakers who know a thing or two about shaft wood selection, seasoning, and turning. More than likely your average $550 custom made cue in today's market is not being constructed by someone with those qualifications.
ribdoner said:I would be a VERY nervous owner. I would have the cue corrected,replaced or I would get a price adjustment/refund. Cost of materials on this cue is probably betwwen 3 and 6% so there is a lot of room for adjustment. If I received satisfaction I would post that on this forum (not the maker's name) and everyone would go their happy ways. If I did NOT receive satisfacation I would disclose the maker in order to help other potential buyers make informed decisions.
I agree and think we are in agreement on most points, but I'm trying to at least make the point that cues are hardly ever perfect.
Sean
PoolSleuth
Banned
gforces1911 said:
Thanks for the reply, sorry to hear about your experence.
Not sure what you mean
I am not sure what you mean.
iconcue said:boy! i bet you're sorry you made that original post now!
I am not sure what you mean.
I hear you & understand what you are saying but
I have bought other new cues ( Dale Perry, Keith
Josey, Jacoby, Dominiak, Clint Putnam) that were
dead straight. Why should I expect less. Everybody
knocks DP & I have bought 3 from him with zero
light under the shafts.
I have bought other new cues ( Dale Perry, Keith
Josey, Jacoby, Dominiak, Clint Putnam) that were
dead straight. Why should I expect less. Everybody
knocks DP & I have bought 3 from him with zero
light under the shafts.
cueaddicts said: