Opinions on Ginacues?

axlrose

axlrose

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi, all.

I have been following the forums here for a number of months and finally decided to hopefully take advantage of the wealth of knowledge I have seen from some of the members.

I have been saving and liquidating other cues in order to purchase my "dream cue." The cue in question is a rather expensive ebony and ivory Ginacue that I have wished for, for the past four to five years. It appears I will shortly be in the position to buy it, or at least try to, but have never actually played with a Gina and am wondering, for those of you out there who have, how well do they play compared to other top custom builders' cues? I am aware this is an entirely subjective topic. I am a strong player who likes fancy cues, who uses every cue he buys, and am not looking for something with which to decorate the insides of one of my cases. I have used McDaniels, Motteys, Whites, Benders, Rundes, Capones, etc. but would very much appreciate any informed opinions anyone would be generous enough to offer. I currently own a couple of other beautiful custom cues that I love to play with, but have never been able to shake the potential opportunity to go after certain cues such as this one. Thank you very much for any offered opinions.

Ryan
 
I owned an eight-point Gina when I was a teenager, growing up in SF. ALL the top players on the West Coast, at that time, used a Gina -- a few, played with a TAD. I bought it off a fellow named Dennis, who, in a moment of temporary insanity, sold it to me -- with three shafts and a black alligator Gina case -- for $150. Several years later, I sold it back to him for $250. Ah, youth.

Flash forward 25 years or so and for our tenth anniversary, my wife asked me what I would like for the event (keep in mind that I had a custom made,1 carat emerald cut diamond, with baguettes, in the works for her). I blurted out that I always regretted selling that Gina, so many years ago. She said, "If he's still around making cues, get on the phone and get what you want.

I called Ernie and told him the story and described the cue I had previously owned. He said, yes, he remembered the cue, but didn't make them quite that way any more, and if I wanted one, he'd have to pull out the drawings, spend some time on the computer, and reload the specs. I said great, but with some small changes: I wanted the joint, the inlays, and butt plate in ivory, and a leather wrap. He said no problem and that he would be happy to charge me appropriately. He said eight months.

Six months later he called and said he was sending leather samples for the wrap. He also said that when he looked at the drawings, he saw that he use to make this particular cue with an additional ring below that wrap that I had forgotten to mention. He said he took the liberty of adding it, in ivory, at no additional charge, so that it would look just like the cue I had previously owned.

A week later it was in my hands. It was absolutely flawless -- exactly as I remembered it, but better.

As to it's playing characteristics, I will tell you the following in complete honesty: when I first got it, I wasn't sure I liked the way it hit. It's a firm solid hit, that somehow, sounds soft. Sorry, I can't describe it any other way. In fact, it was only after three or four other players asked to take a few shots with the cue, that I could hear how soft a hit it had (with hard Mooris).

But nonetheless, despite my minor misgivings, I seemed to make a lot of balls with the cue. After just two days, I felt like I was playing a couple of balls better with this cue than I had with any other. I dismissed it as just being "new cue syndrome."

But then, people started telling me (mostly opponents I was relieving of cash) that I had suddenly improved two balls. My practice runs jumped way up. My confidence went way up. After a couple of months I called Ernie and told him how much I loved the cue.

And then I asked, "You know, everyone tells me I'm playing two balls better than before with your cue."

And he said, "I've built special test equipment and my cues are 97% accurate. The cue alone is worth a ball and a half."

Now, you can take that as "a sales story," or hype, or PR or whatever you want. But for my money, you couldn't pull this cue out of my hands with a Mac diesel.

IMO, Ernie is THE greatest living cuemaker. And, IMO, you should get one while you can. It will cost you. But it will be worth every single last penny.

Lou Figueroa



axlrose said:
Hi, all.

I have been following the forums here for a number of months and finally decided to hopefully take advantage of the wealth of knowledge I have seen from some of the members.

I have been saving and liquidating other cues in order to purchase my "dream cue." The cue in question is a rather expensive ebony and ivory Ginacue that I have wished for, for the past four to five years. It appears I will shortly be in the position to buy it, or at least try to, but have never actually played with a Gina and am wondering, for those of you out there who have, how well do they play compared to other top custom builders' cues? I am aware this is an entirely subjective topic. I am a strong player who likes fancy cues, who uses every cue he buys, and am not looking for something with which to decorate the insides of one of my cases. I have used McDaniels, Motteys, Whites, Benders, Rundes, Capones, etc. but would very much appreciate any informed opinions anyone would be generous enough to offer. I currently own a couple of other beautiful custom cues that I love to play with, but have never been able to shake the potential opportunity to go after certain cues such as this one. Thank you very much for any offered opinions.

Ryan
Click to expand...
 
lfigueroa said:
I owned an eight-point Gina when I was a teenager, growing up in SF. ALL the top players on the West Coast, at that time, used a Gina -- a few, played with a TAD. I bought it off a fellow named Dennis, who, in a moment of temporary insanity, sold it to me -- with three shafts and a black alligator Gina case -- for $150. Several years later, I sold it back to him for $250. Ah, youth.

Flash forward 25 years or so and for our tenth anniversary, my wife asked me what I would like for the event (keep in mind that I had a custom made,1 carat emerald cut diamond, with baguettes, in the works for her). I blurted out that I always regretted selling that Gina, so many years ago. She said, "If he's still around making cues, get on the phone and get what you want.

I called Ernie and told him the story and described the cue I had previously owned. He said, yes, he remembered the cue, but didn't make them quite that way any more, and if I wanted one, he'd have to pull out the drawings, spend some time on the computer, and reload the specs. I said great, but with some small changes: I wanted the joint, the inlays, and butt plate in ivory, and a leather wrap. He said no problem and that he would be happy to charge me appropriately. He said eight months.

Six months later he called and said he was sending leather samples for the wrap. He also said that when he looked at the drawings, he saw that he use to make this particular cue with an additional ring below that wrap that I had forgotten to mention. He said he took the liberty of adding it, in ivory, at no additional charge, so that it would look just like the cue I had previously owned.

A week later it was in my hands. It was absolutely flawless -- exactly as I remembered it, but better.

As to it's playing characteristics, I will tell you the following in complete honesty: when I first got it, I wasn't sure I liked the way it hit. It's a firm solid hit, that somehow, sounds soft. Sorry, I can't describe it any other way. In fact, it was only after three or four other players asked to take a few shots with the cue, that I could hear how soft a hit it had (with hard Mooris).

But nonetheless, despite my minor misgivings, I seemed to make a lot of balls with the cue. After just two days, I felt like I was playing a couple of balls better with this cue than I had with any other. I dismissed it as just being "new cue syndrome."

But then, people started telling me (mostly opponents I was relieving of cash) that I had suddenly improved two balls. My practice runs jumped way up. My confidence went way up. After a couple of months I called Ernie and told him how much I loved the cue.

And then I asked, "You know, everyone tells me I'm playing two balls better than before with your cue."

And he said, "I've built special test equipment and my cues are 97% accurate. The cue alone is worth a ball and a half."

Now, you can take that as "a sales story," or hype, or PR or whatever you want. But for my money, you couldn't pull this cue out of my hands with a Mac diesel.

IMO, Ernie is THE greatest living cuemaker. And, IMO, you should get one while you can. It will cost you. But it will be worth every single last penny.

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...
Could you please elaborate further on what you mean by 97% accurate ? thank you
 
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cuejoey said:
Could you please elaborate further on what you mean by 97% accurate ? thank you
Click to expand...
That statement confounds me. I thought all cues were 100% accurate. Why are Ernie's only 97% accurate? IMHO the cues are well executed but the designs on his catalogue cues have gotten redundant through the years. I would also prefer spliced points.:cool:
 
i loved the old spliced cues from Ernie... the newer ones with the rounder CNC points puts me off a bit.. But thats me, the traditionalist.

Bgrds
Raist
 
I'm not sure what he meant. But because he mentioned special testing equipment, I took it to mean that he had achieved some level of perfection and performance that helped the palyer and was not easily attained by other cuemakers. Actually, I was so happy with the cue at that point, I didn't really care what he meant. I just knew I was playing better.

Lou Figueroa


cuejoey said:
Could you please elaborate further on what you mean by 97% accurate ? thank you
Click to expand...
 
Careful

I speak from experience of being lured by the Gina mystique. I ordered one about four years ago and was aghast when I looked at the top of the points and noticed the nice little round edge. I assumed Ernie still did true splice points and when I called him out about this I got lectured about all the benefits of cnc precision. I've tried out a few other Gina's with ivory and steel joints and just don't really like the hit. All of the cues you listed are cues that I think generally have a reputation of being good players. I agree with all of them except the Bender, just never had on I really liked. Every time I see a Gina, I put the cnc stuff out of mind and find myself reaching for the bankroll but usually stop because they just don't play up to my ideals of a good hitting cue. They are perfectly made and among the most beautiful objects in cue history, just don't expect the hit to compare to all the other positives of the cue. Like you said, this a very subjective topic, but like you, I will not own a cue that decorates my case, if you're not a collector, the cues have to play, and I think many of Ernie's cues are mere trophies and ego crutches, so try one out before you plunk down all the dough.
 
pathman said:
I speak from experience of being lured by the Gina mystique. I ordered one about four years ago and was aghast when I looked at the top of the points and noticed the nice little round edge. I assumed Ernie still did true splice points and when I called him out about this I got lectured about all the benefits of cnc precision. I've tried out a few other Gina's with ivory and steel joints and just don't really like the hit. All of the cues you listed are cues that I think generally have a reputation of being good players. I agree with all of them except the Bender, just never had on I really liked. Every time I see a Gina, I put the cnc stuff out of mind and find myself reaching for the bankroll but usually stop because they just don't play up to my ideals of a good hitting cue. They are perfectly made and among the most beautiful objects in cue history, just don't expect the hit to compare to all the other positives of the cue. Like you said, this a very subjective topic, but like you, I will not own a cue that decorates my case, if you're not a collector, the cues have to play, and I think many of Ernie's cues are mere trophies and ego crutches, so try one out before you plunk down all the dough.
Click to expand...


You must have read my mind, I agree with this completely.
 
pathman said:
I assumed Ernie still did true splice points and when I called him out about this I got lectured about all the benefits of cnc precision.
Click to expand...
Anyone know the year Ernie started doing CNC points?
 
i've heard it all from great hitting to not great. played with one for about a minute, and it felt like a balabushka i once played with. very resonant hit. i could feel a vibration that seemed to "sing". i'm not saying "sing" as a good or bad thing,,,but merely to describe what i thought was an after-effect of the hit. i would not be at all surprised if much of this "feel" was due to the shaftwood. it certainly had the feel of something that maight have good age to it, but now i think i'm grasping at straws to explain the hit.

personally, i liked the hit. it felt real and somewhat unfettered,,,,,,,"natural". i can however see where some people might find the hit a bit TOO raw. none of the cues you mentioned has the charactersitic i'm talking about.

assuming ernie can impart this characteristic to all his cues, i would say that if you like converted titleists with ivory joints and a RAW, snappy hit, this might be for you based on my experience with just one cue.
 
misterpoole said:
Anyone know the year Ernie started doing CNC points?
Click to expand...

There is a lot of speculation that Ernie didn't build many blanks himself. If you think about it, most of the older Gina's you see available are Titlest conversions. I'm not from the West Coast, so I'm sure you guys out there have a better handle on this, just an observation. I've always been a fan of Ernie's design, but I don't think building a good prong was ever his strong suite.
 
pathman said:
There is a lot of speculation that Ernie didn't build many blanks himself. If you think about it, most of the older Gina's you see available are Titlest conversions. I'm not from the West Coast, so I'm sure you guys out there have a better handle on this, just an observation. I've always been a fan of Ernie's design, but I don't think building a good prong was ever his strong suite.
Click to expand...
I highly doubt that.
The man is a genius.
It's not that hard to make a short-splice blank if you have some money for the equipment.
 
pathman said:
There is a lot of speculation that Ernie didn't build many blanks himself. If you think about it, most of the older Gina's you see available are Titlest conversions. I'm not from the West Coast, so I'm sure you guys out there have a better handle on this, just an observation. I've always been a fan of Ernie's design, but I don't think building a good prong was ever his strong suite.
Click to expand...

I've not heard any such ramblings. Some of the oldest ones are Titlists, but there are just as many if not more that are plain maple or exotic hardwood noses, 4 pongs, 6 prongs, 8 prongs, barbell prongs, etc. If he can (and did) inlay those silver prongs into that ultra fancy cue that he made back in the mid 60s, I think it's pretty safe to say he 'could' do whatever he wanted with cues. Think his designs ultimately just went the CNC route like many other cuemakers have vs. the completely traditional methods.

Sean
 
cueaddicts said:
I've not heard any such ramblings. Some of the oldest ones are Titlists, but there are just as many if not more that are plain maple or exotic hardwood noses, 4 pongs, 6 prongs, 8 prongs, barbell prongs, etc. If he can (and did) inlay those silver prongs into that ultra fancy cue that he made back in the mid 60s, I think it's pretty safe to say he 'could' do whatever he wanted with cues. Think his designs ultimately just went the CNC route like many other cuemakers have vs. the completely traditional methods.

Sean
Click to expand...
That he can.
I know one dealer who had dinner with Ernie. Ernie hand carved his signature with a pocket knife before dinner. He said it looked perfect but Ernie said he was rusty.:eek:
CNC=automation. Ernie most likely got tired of watching that v-pointing machine take cuts really slowly over and over again. Hell I got tired of making just ring billets last week.:rolleyes:
 
bruin70 said:
i've heard it all from great hitting to not great. played with one for about a minute, and it felt like a balabushka i once played with. very resonant hit. i could feel a vibration that seemed to "sing". i'm not saying "sing" as a good or bad thing,,,but merely to describe what i thought was an after-effect of the hit. i would not be at all surprised if much of this "feel" was due to the shaftwood. it certainly had the feel of something that maight have good age to it, but now i think i'm grasping at straws to explain the hit.

personally, i liked the hit. it felt real and somewhat unfettered,,,,,,,"natural". i can however see where some people might find the hit a bit TOO raw. none of the cues you mentioned has the charactersitic i'm talking about.

assuming ernie can impart this characteristic to all his cues, i would say that if you like converted titleists with ivory joints and a RAW, snappy hit, this might be for you based on my experience with just one cue.
Click to expand...

I have played with a old style titlist conversion Gina, and the modern one. i believe he started doing CNC when he came out of retirement...correct me if i am wrong.
I had the pleasure of playing a new Gina, 2 Titlists, n a Hercek just an hour ago..All are no/minimal inlays players cue. I can tell u the hit is far from the truth. The new gina does hit right, but is not magical and anything impressive. And the hit is not as crisp than the 3 titlists i have.
The old Gina, thats a different story. No questions why it was the disputed choice of hustlers and players in the old days.
And yes..the round edge keeps reminding me of a Schon.
From my fresh experience i have just now, lets say if I have money to burn, i'll seek out an old Gina, or buy an aftermarket Hercek.

Bgrds
Raist
 
titlistsucker said:
From my fresh experience i have just now, lets say if I have money to burn, i'll seek out an old Gina, or buy an aftermarket Hercek.

Bgrds
Raist
Click to expand...
I was trying to determine which route I would take - Gina vs. a Hercek - for the next cue.
Thanks for your valuable input.
 
cueaddicts said:
I've not heard any such ramblings. Some of the oldest ones are Titlists, but there are just as many if not more that are plain maple or exotic hardwood noses, 4 pongs, 6 prongs, 8 prongs, barbell prongs, etc. If he can (and did) inlay those silver prongs into that ultra fancy cue that he made back in the mid 60s, I think it's pretty safe to say he 'could' do whatever he wanted with cues. Think his designs ultimately just went the CNC route like many other cuemakers have vs. the completely traditional methods.

Sean
Click to expand...

I don't doubt that he could do anything, I just haven't seen that many traditional spliced four or six or eight prong early Gina's. I reall love the old barbell forearm cues, but they have nothing to do with building structural pointed cues, they are only inlays into a solid nose, nothing wrong with that, just not comparing apples to apples. I'm not bashing Ernie, I think he is in fact a genius of the art much like Bill Schick. Sometimes the stray from the traditional construction techniques challenges us to re-evaluate our beliefs about how cues are made. Just an observation, thats all.
 
pathman said:
There is a lot of speculation that Ernie didn't build many blanks himself. If you think about it, most of the older Gina's you see available are Titlest conversions. I'm not from the West Coast, so I'm sure you guys out there have a better handle on this, just an observation. I've always been a fan of Ernie's design, but I don't think building a good prong was ever his strong suite.
Click to expand...
Who do you think has built more blanks,Ernie or Pete T. ?:confused: Whose blank is more precise, tight, etc?
 
pathman said:
There is a lot of speculation that Ernie didn't build many blanks himself. If you think about it, most of the older Gina's you see available are Titlest conversions. I'm not from the West Coast, so I'm sure you guys out there have a better handle on this, just an observation. I've always been a fan of Ernie's design, but I don't think building a good prong was ever his strong suite.
Click to expand...

I spoke with Bert Schrager a few weeks ago about purchasing his shop, which I am not doing :^(, but we got to talking, or rather Bert did =^), and he told me that he made the old blanks for Ernie, as well as some others.
 
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