Opponent conceding by knocking in 8/9 with hand, etc.

Billy_Bob

Billy_Bob

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Today I was playing one of the best players in my area and was about to beat him at 8-ball for the second time in a row... about to knock in the 8-ball... and he walks up to the table, grabs the 8-ball, moves it to the rail, and says I don't need to shoot it! (Conceding game)

I sure as heck DO need to shoot it! I want the glory and all that stuff of beating one of the top guns! Don't deny me my little moment of pleasure...

I moved the ball back and shot it in anyway...
 
It's usually a player showing respect, especially if it's the final game. I've heard of a sharking technique doing that, raking the last 4 or 5 balls early in the match so you don't really get warmed up. If the 9-ball is hanging in the hole or its a short straight in shot on the 9-ball I'll concede the game sometimes. When I play in big tournaments I rarely do that, because generally there are much stronger players and they don't do that, so I do as they do.
 
Billy_Bob said:
Today I was playing one of the best players in my area and was about to beat him at 8-ball for the second time in a row... about to knock in the 8-ball... and he walks up to the table, grabs the 8-ball, moves it to the rail, and says I don't need to shoot it! (Conceding game)

I sure as heck DO need to shoot it! I want the glory and all that stuff of beating one of the top guns! Don't deny me my little moment of pleasure...

I moved the ball back and shot it in anyway...
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That's a boor move by your apponent and the sign of a real bad sport. I remember in my bar pool days of people putting the wager on the rail before I shot the last ball. I simply grabbed the money and said "thanks", knowing he fully expected me to try the last shot. Don't play into that game, and especially , don't replace the ball and shoot it. He's conceded, plain and simple, in his own lowbrow way. Just say thanks and walk...It'll avoid some black eyes and sore faces...but don't forget to take his $$
 
Only a chlid would set those two balls back up and shoot them. The man was beat and he conceded the game, whats the problem. When Japan conceded defeat in WWII the US did not drop a third atomic bomb on them, it was over. Take it as a compliment and move on.
 
Billy_Bob said:
Today I was playing one of the best players in my area and was about to beat him at 8-ball for the second time in a row... about to knock in the 8-ball... and he walks up to the table, grabs the 8-ball, moves it to the rail, and says I don't need to shoot it! (Conceding game)

I sure as heck DO need to shoot it! I want the glory and all that stuff of beating one of the top guns! Don't deny me my little moment of pleasure...

I moved the ball back and shot it in anyway...
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Assuming this wasn't a tournament in which concessions aren't permitted, I don't have any problem with this at all.

Concessions in which the final balls are moved as the means of conceding the game are common in both practice and gambling matches. You should never decline a concession for one critical reason -- opponent has already acted in a way that has caused a break in your concentration. Of course, you should be able to overcome it almost all of the time, but that's hardly the point. Once opponent concedes, the game is over, and it's time to start focusing on the next rack. More often than not, a concession is an act of good sportsmanship and a sign of respect for an opponent.

If it's really important to you, it is OK to specify "we'll shoot everything out" to an opponent before playing a match, and then, if opponent doesn't comply, they are out of line.

Billy Bob, your focus here should be on the fact that you beat a fine player. Congratulations.
 
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I think there is good sportsmanship - Verbally tell opponent they do not need to shoot in final shot, but do not touch balls. This gives opponent option of shooting in the final shot should he prefer. Many times this is done in the interest of moving things along time wise. For example a scratch on the 9 in 9-ball. It is needless to grab the cue ball, set up a straight in shot and shoot it. In these cases, I don't shoot the final shot and I feel "good" about not pocketing the final ball.

Bad sportsmanship - Opponent runs table and is about to shoot in last ball. You walk up, grab the ball, and throw it in the pocket. This is along the lines of "If you're going to hurt me, I'll do it to myself first and deny you the satisfaction!". When playing these people, I would have preferred to shoot in the last ball.

What this guy did was different from the above. I was about to shoot in the 8-ball/lining up my shot, he walks up, grabs the 8-ball, moves it to the rail, and says I do not need to shoot it. (Not giving me the option of shooting it if I prefer.) My first thought was "How rude!". My next thought was; what is this guy up to? (He is not only an excellent player, he is also extremely excellent with his sharking tactics. Most of which are psychological in nature.)

So I'm wondering if...

A. He was doing this to protect himself. i.e. By his not seeing me pocket the 8-ball, in his mind, he did not really lose the game. An attempt to keep his confidence at its highest level - a mind trick on his part. (This guy hates to lose - big time!)

B. He was using a psychological sharking tactic on me (dog salivating when bell rings type of thing), that being each time I play him and am about to shoot the final shot, I should expect a disruption of some sort. This would have the effect of causing me to not fully concentrate on my final shot when playing him - keeping one eye on him to see "what he is going to pull this time".

C. He was keeping me from "warming up" or gaining any more confidence with my game. i.e. The more balls I shoot, the better I get, the more balls he shoots, the better he gets - try to arrange things so your opponent pockets as few balls as necessary.
 
Man, you've got a lot of stuff rolling around in your head. I hope you're not that analytical in reading a table and setting up to each shot. It might take an hour to play one game.

You should have accepted the conceded shot and let it go, but since you did set the 8 ball back up, why didn't you miss it on purpose to piss him off and play with his head?
 
Billy Bob conceding a few balls is a relatively common practice between two capable oponents. Your oponent must not of known you that well because if you get this strung out over a guy conceding two balls, you're liable to dog it. Putting the balls back up and shooting them again is very childish and shows you do not know the game very well.

I don't believe you said or not if this was in a tournament or just playing for fun? If you were playing for fun or practicing for a tournament you should concede 1 or 2 easy balls to spead it up so each player gets to practice.

Conceding 1 ball is not going to keep you from warming up. Earl Strickland use to do this in tournaments but he would concede the rack with numerous balls left on the table because it was a cosmo and his opponent was sure to clean the table. Even though his opponent may have a few games under his belt, he wouldn't be in stroke because he is cold from sitting the entire match.
 
It is common for people here in Northern California to concede a game like that. I don't see what the problem is. I also don't understand why it is against the rules in a tournament. If someone wants to concede a game to me, I'm not going to bitch about it. We had an excellent player that used to do that in tournaments early in the match to try to keep his opponents from getting into stroke. I would have been happy to have obliged him. What is a TD going to do to me if I concede the last game in a match that I'm losing 6 to 0 going to 7? My reaction, if they said something to me would be, "Bite Me!" When you have players like an Earl Strickland that openly sharks his opponents and generally acts like an a@@hole and the TDs don't do anything about it and then they're going to make a fuss about conceding a game? Give me a break! Get over it!
 
DeadPoked said:
...I don't believe you said or not if this was in a tournament or just playing for fun?...
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Just playing for fun... But I also play this guy in tournaments.

He is one of a kind and I have not met anyone else like him.

Actually I have a bit of psychology under my belt... I enjoy watching this guy and listening to what he says to other players. I have seen him totally destroy his opponents confidence with his "mouth".

I assure you each and every word out of his mouth has one goal, and only one goal. That is winning.

Most other players don't know what he is doing, they will say: "I can't understand why I can't pocket a ball all of a sudden!" They don't understand that they have been the target of a well thought out psychological attack.
 
Billy_Bob said:
I sure as heck DO need to shoot it! I want the glory and all that stuff of beating one of the top guns! Don't deny me my little moment of pleasure...
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Billy_Bob,

I believe, many years ago on the Camel Tour, a young and upcoming player was on the verge of defeating Earl for his first major tournament victory. Earl's reaction was to "throw" in the last nine ball. He made it impossible for that player to enjoy the same moment of victory that you missed. There were lots of bad feelings for quite a while. Other posters are correct. Take the win and walk. Should the same situation come up in the future reversed, remember how you felt.

Years ago, I had an opponent run around a tournament room full of players with his stick held high after he beat me for the first time (bar box race to two). The other players felt as I did. What a schmuck! Don't join him.
 
Hi Rick,

Mike Zuglan's Joss Northeast Tour has used the rule since it's inception. The players on the tour are expected to "show some class" in not throwing the nine ball in. If you concede, it also costs you one additional game. If you think this doesn't come into play, Karen Corr was playing a male professional, I believe in Syracuse, NY. She was leading by a game. She hung an eight ball with the nine hanging. She knocked the eight in and began to rack the balls in anger. Her opponent immediately called her on it. She thought for a moment and then put her opponents extra game up. It cost her the set.

Somewhere, we as players have to stop having "tantrums" when things don't go our way. It seems petty but Mike, Danny and the other sponsors of the Joss Tour want to sell their product. Look at the reaction from the pool playing community to Earl's on live TV antics. Some may think it was funny. Ask a potential sponsor's advertising agency what they think? You may be suprised at their answer!
 
CK,

I think a lot depends on how you concede the game don't you? I see a big difference between throwing in the towel in disgust as opposed to, "You don't have to shoot that if you don't want to". And, the guy admits that they were not playing in a tournament. I just think people are getting too worried about the petty stuff. I mentioned Earl because everyone knows exactly what I'm talking about when I mention him but there are other players out there that have inappropriate behaviors in a tournament and the TDs don't do anything about it. I think that those inappropriate behaviors, including having a tantrum about losing are things that need and should be dealt with. If a player indicates in a genteel way that as far as they're concerned, the game is over, what's the big deal? That's my point.
 
Anyone watch the Ryder Cup golf this past weekend? Putts were frequently conceded. In many cases, the player conceding the putt picked up his opponent's ball or ball marker. Nobody ever said "that putt is good unless you'd rather putt it" to an opponent.

Similarly, in the final match of the 2004 World Match Play Championship in golf, putts were conceded in these same ways, despite the fact that $1,000,000 was riding on the outcome. Concessions, handled tasefully and with good sportsmanship, do nothing to cheapen the pro golf product, and I feel quite sure that every sponsor or potential sponsor of golf would agree.

The problem with pool and the situations that concessions in pool create is that the level of sportsmnaship in pro pool isn't high enough. Nonetheless, in my view, permitting concessions in pro pool would be desirable. Of course, having a clear definition of what procedure should be followed by the player conceding would be critical. Concessions handled properly, in my opinion, would be no more objectionable to pool sponsors than conceded putts are to golf sponsors.
 
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A classy concession

Recently, at the Big Apple 9 ball tournment, a concession happened in the last game of the Schmidt-Salvas match. Schmidt had a 9 ball hanger, and Salvas simply walked up to him with an extended hand. They shook hands and the match was over. No balls were touched.
I've also witnessed money games in which concessions were made, and not a problem. As a matter of fact, in New York, at least, it seems to be the case that the player who earns the concession takes it as a courtesy, and a "thank you" usually follows.
 
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lewdo26 said:
Recently, at the Big Apple 9 ball tournment, a concession happened in the last game of the Schmidt-Salvas match. Schmidt had a 9 ball hanger, and Salvas simply walked up to him with an extended hand. They shook hands and the match was over. No balls were touched.
I've also witnessed money games in which concessions were made, and not a problem. As a matter of fact, in New York, at least, it seems to be the case that the player who earns the concession takes it as a courtesy, and a "thank you" usually follows.
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I should also mention that the Schmidt-Salvas match was being televised by worldpool.com
 
Take the win and smile. He knew he was beat and it always makes me smile when someone does that. It shows you're in their head and that is exactly where you want to be. He is just planting a seed in his own head for later. Enjoy it and take full advantage of it.
 
I have to admit that it's somewhat amusing to see all the fuss being made over a guy conceding a shot in a game that was for fun. People give up the last ball all the time. It's no big deal at all. In fact, some people might get a little irritated if you DON'T give them a hanger. Like another poster mentioned earlier - did you see the Ryder Cup? Or any match-play golf tournament, for that matter? You'll see hanger putts conceded all the time. It's a form of sportsmanship to acknowledge your opponent's skill level by not making them shoot a shot that they're going to make 100 out of a 100 times. As long as you're not breaking any rules that you might be playing by, what is the problem? A lot of tournaments are played by the rule that it is a two-game penalty (the game you conceded and an extra game) for conceding the last shot, but that isn't because it is unsportsman-like. It is because spectators pay to watch people play, not have shots conceded to them. Well, that and it stops the stuff that Earl does where he gives up the whole rack every time he misses a ball (which I've seen him do on more than one occasion). Spectators aren't paying to watch that.
 
Jimmy M. said:
Well, that and it stops the stuff that Earl does where he gives up the whole rack every time he misses a ball (which I've seen him do on more than one occasion). Spectators aren't paying to watch that.
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I missed a ball in the first game in a 10 ahead set for Denny's Denver Omelet and said, " Lets go eat, I'm starvin'" Hey, I know when I'm beat! :D
 
Billy_Bob said:
Today I was playing one of the best players in my area and was about to beat him at 8-ball for the second time in a row... about to knock in the 8-ball... and he walks up to the table, grabs the 8-ball, moves it to the rail, and says I don't need to shoot it! (Conceding game)

I sure as heck DO need to shoot it! I want the glory and all that stuff of beating one of the top guns! Don't deny me my little moment of pleasure...

I moved the ball back and shot it in anyway...
Click to expand...

BB, I did that to a girl 3 years ago & she's still mad at me.
I thought I was showing her respect by conceding. WRONG!
 
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