Options for inlay work?

Chili Palmer

Chili Palmer

Give or take an 1"
Silver Member
What are all the options for doing inlay work?

I recently purchased a deluxe cuesmith so I have the capability to do circles and lines (barbells, etc.) but at some point would like to start adding diamonds. I prefer very traditional looking cues so no fancy scroll work needed (i.e. don't think I need a CNC).

Options I'm aware of:

CNC - not needed at this point
Pantograph (CueSmith, homemade, other manufacturers?)
Pocket knife :eek:

As mentioned, I am really only interested in diamonds at this point but am aware whatever I end up with "should" be able to do other things as well.

Anything else out there I'm unaware of?

TIA
 
You can do pretty much anything you imagine with CNC although the learning curve is pretty steep.

Alan
 
Chili Palmer said:
What are all the options for doing inlay work?

I recently purchased a deluxe cuesmith so I have the capability to do circles and lines (barbells, etc.) but at some point would like to start adding diamonds. I prefer very traditional looking cues so no fancy scroll work needed (i.e. don't think I need a CNC).

Options I'm aware of:

CNC - not needed at this point
Pantograph (CueSmith, homemade, other manufacturers?)
Pocket knife :eek:

As mentioned, I am really only interested in diamonds at this point but am aware whatever I end up with "should" be able to do other things as well.

Anything else out there I'm unaware of?

TIA
Click to expand...

Pantographs are just not easy enough to operate and they do not give that good of results.......... you can do inlays easily with a CNC..... and yes if you have no experience with one ....... it will be difficult at first.... but you will be happy in the end.......... if price bothers you,,,, you can do it with a cheap Chinese 3020 with 4 axis........... and a little investigation on how others are doing cues with them

Kim
 
whammo57 said:
Pantographs are just not easy enough to operate and they do not give that good of results.......... you can do inlays easily with a CNC..... and yes if you have no experience with one ....... it will be difficult at first.... but you will be happy in the end.......... if price bothers you,,,, you can do it with a cheap Chinese 3020 with 4 axis........... and a little investigation on how others are doing cues with them

Kim
Click to expand...

aphelps1 said:
You can do pretty much anything you imagine with CNC although the learning curve is pretty steep.

Alan
Click to expand...


Thanks, I was asking because you don't know what you don't know and I just wanted to make sure I reviewed all the options. I'm not afraid of CNC, originally went to school for computer programming so I know my way around a keyboard.

And I was looking at the chinese cnc stuff about 6 months for something else, maybe it's time to revisit them.
 
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I had a Hightower pantograph. Well built and accurate. I made several cues with it. Got busy at work and cue work went on hold, so I sold it. Wish I hadn't.
I have a CNC, but haven't used it for cue work yet. I bought it for small projects and have used the crap out of it for engraving etc. Sure, there's a learning curve, but "modern" software makes the curve less steep. I see you make cutting boards. I've used my CNC to do engravings and you could too. I estimate that with things I've sold from my CNC, it's about 80% paid for. I've found I do something for myself, make extra and throw them on Etsy.


Chili Palmer said:
Thanks, I was asking because you don't know what you don't know and I just wanted to make sure I reviewed all the options. I'm not afraid of CNC, originally went to school for computer programming so I know my way around a keyboard.

And I was looking at the chinese cnc stuff about 6 months for something else, maybe it's time to revisit them.
Click to expand...
 
Alan said:
I had a Hightower pantograph. Well built and accurate. I made several cues with it. Got busy at work and cue work went on hold, so I sold it. Wish I hadn't.
I have a CNC, but haven't used it for cue work yet. I bought it for small projects and have used the crap out of it for engraving etc. Sure, there's a learning curve, but "modern" software makes the curve less steep. I see you make cutting boards. I've used my CNC to do engravings and you could too. I estimate that with things I've sold from my CNC, it's about 80% paid for. I've found I do something for myself, make extra and throw them on Etsy.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the blurb about the Hightower pantograph, I've heard both good and bad things. I'm hoping to visit a cue maker with one to see the good/bad myself.

And yeah, I was looking at CNC before for some other projects (that I won't talk about yet :)) and I almost pulled the trigger. Funny, I forgot about the other things I wanted to do with it, I think it just moved back up the list a few spots.
 
I had a Hightower pantograph for a few years. Never used it. Just couldn't bring myself to spend the time to learn how to use it since I would be doing the same thing everyone else was doing. Got a CNC and really enjoying the freedom of expression it allows.

Larry
 
Look into the really cheap 3 axis CNCs like V1 Engineering's MPCNC and swap the Y axis for a rotary chuck. You can do all your learning on the cheap and graduate if you find you need more accuracy or speed in the longer term.
 
Just to emphasize what others have said about cnc - go with it and don't look back.

I'm old and not as bright as i'd like to be. Still use 3D Gortons "often enough", but not for cues (some for table work). Mostly maker metal parts, and some furniture stuff and netsuke. Some engraving.

The learning curve is probably steeper than modern cnc.
The tooling, to make it "walk up and use it" will set you back more than the machine cost. I bought 2 near new Gorton 3D's for under $250 ea a couple decades ago. Sold one to a kid brother (& i actually like that brother, lol). However, one type font will probably cost $100+ unless you shop well & are lucky.

Get a few fonts, a pile of tracers and cutters, the means to sharpen them, the table fixturing, etc, etc & you still have to make and size your patterns, both inside and outside. A mill & a lathe are almost essential support equipment to produce and modify the panto hard tooling. Every time a size or fit change is needed or built to start, you have to dick with the size of the cutter vs the size of the tracer vs the offset of the pattern, vs the pattern shape distortion to provide a true work profile.

cnc does that fast, seamlessly & "costless" with a few keystrokes; & requires much less support machinery


smt
 
pantograph

There are some inlay machines better suited for cues. I prefer anything that uses something more powerful than a Dremel.

Mario
 
Thanks for all the replies, seems like there really is only two choices - pantograph or CNC and given the prices of a good pantograph and an entry level CNC I think the choice is clear. CNC, based on the versatility of the machine.


I was looking at the K40 previously (was primarily focused on a laser) but does anyone have experience with Bob's CNC?

https://www.bobscnc.com/collections/homepage-collection/products/evolution-3-cnc-router-kit

I haven't done too much research but they get great reviews.
 
Ssonerai said:
Just to emphasize what others have said about cnc - go with it and don't look back.

I'm old and not as bright as i'd like to be. Still use 3D Gortons "often enough", but not for cues (some for table work). Mostly maker metal parts, and some furniture stuff and netsuke. Some engraving.

The learning curve is probably steeper than modern cnc.
The tooling, to make it "walk up and use it" will set you back more than the machine cost. I bought 2 near new Gorton 3D's for under $250 ea a couple decades ago. Sold one to a kid brother (& i actually like that brother, lol). However, one type font will probably cost $100+ unless you shop well & are lucky.

Get a few fonts, a pile of tracers and cutters, the means to sharpen them, the table fixturing, etc, etc & you still have to make and size your patterns, both inside and outside. A mill & a lathe are almost essential support equipment to produce and modify the panto hard tooling. Every time a size or fit change is needed or built to start, you have to dick with the size of the cutter vs the size of the tracer vs the offset of the pattern, vs the pattern shape distortion to provide a true work profile.

cnc does that fast, seamlessly & "costless" with a few keystrokes; & requires much less support machinery


smt
Click to expand...



David in FL said:
You might want to give Chris Nitti a call...

He does all his inlay work with a pantograph.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpe5qiJdqsE
Click to expand...

I'm very impressed that he does his work with a panto-graph, I have always loved his cues. Simple yet classy.

Mcues said:
There are some inlay machines better suited for cues. I prefer anything that uses something more powerful than a Dremel.

Mario
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, why is that? Some reasons I can think of - larger collets, more HP, longer machine life because it's not working at full capacity? It makes sense but is it needed for hobby use? In reality, I tend to push things to their limits so a full size router would probably benefit me.
 
Chili Palmer said:
I'm very impressed that he does his work with a panto-graph, I have always loved his cues. Simple yet classy.



Out of curiosity, why is that? Some reasons I can think of - larger collets, more HP, longer machine life because it's not working at full capacity? It makes sense but is it needed for hobby use? In reality, I tend to push things to their limits so a full size router would probably benefit me.
Click to expand...
Dremels are notorious for having bad runout, or developing it. While they can certainly be used, the less runout, the tighter the inlay

Alan.
 
aphelps1 said:
Dremels are notorious for having bad runout, or developing it. While they can certainly be used, the less runout, the tighter the inlay

Alan.
Click to expand...

Makes sense. I've had the same dremel tool since 1991 and I recently replaced the armature because it was getting pretty bad. Armature actually didn't help so need to buy a new dremel.
 
If you really want an excellent machine made specifically for cue inlays, get a Unique Rage....... or if you can find one, an older Unique Cuemonster.............. top of the line.... not cheap but they do excellent and accurate work...........


Kim
 
I'd lean toward the MPCNC over the BobsCNC. It'll cost you enough less that you can buy the rotary axis that you'll need for either and still have money for lots of bits... You don't want a dremel with either because the dremels end up with a lot of runout very early in their life.
 
I pulled the trigger yesterday on a 3040 CNC from eBay. As I previously mentioned, I have a few other projects/products I'm working on that will require CNC.

I was thinking about the 6040 and will probably regret it later but, to me, the extra $500 wasn't worth the extra space, rather, I think they're overcharging for it. To move up to the 6040 does not require additional controllers, motors, etc., it's simply a larger bed and longer rails and I wasn't willing to pay double for just that.
 
Operating a CNC machine is all about learning the programs that support it.
Just like any other computer program they have a learning curve.
Simple once you know how but sometimes not so simple to find information on what you need to know.
Most CNC drafting programs will start you right out on 3D instructions.
Almost all of cue inlay work is 2D.
Getting answers for the simple questions is sometimes very difficult unless you have a friend willing to teach the basics.

A very simple course in CNC creation.
Step by step ... you design the inlay and then make two drawings ... one for the pocket and one for the inlay piece.
Simple one line 2D profile drawings ... think Diamond and Dot.
Then you create the tool path lines around those drawings that the cutting tool needs to follow to cut the material right up to those lines.
Inside for the pocket and outside for the inlay piece.
You then convert those line drawings to CNC instructions using a software program like BobCad.
You end up with two CNC programs ... one to cut the pocket and one to cut the inlay piece.
Just by tinkering you will eventually learn enough about CNC instructions to make simple changes directly to the CNC coding if needed.
So simply put ... all you need to know is how to make the programs do what you know must be done.
Lost a bit of hair learning those instructions.

Cutting the pocket is easy but what about the inlay pieces?
You need to somehow get those inlay pieces out of the material you cut them into.
But that is another set of instructions for another day.

I use that same machine.
Feel free to call me if you need some help.
I use BobCad for the creation part and and Mach4 to run the machine.
You will need to fine tune your stepper motors for best results.
Willee 361-563-1303
 
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