Ordering a custom cue terms

[GoldCrown]

How about a $2500-7500 cue.
They have 50% deposit. They cannot deliver your cue for x reason. That’s the way it goes? Fortunes of war?
Let’s change the word “contract” to bill of sale with terms. The merchant is always concerned about the buyer. I’m as concerned about the merchant. I’ve been through the home renovation ordeals and one piss poor cue maker.
Good responses from everyone.. let’s raise a little awareness for new buyers …
There are some builders on the forum I’d have no issue with an online or phone order.
There were a few I’m glad I choose not to work with.

 

[Bavafongoul]

How about a $2500-7500 cue.
They have 50% deposit. They cannot deliver your cue for x reason. That’s the way it goes? Fortunes of war?
Let’s change the word “contract” to bill of sale with terms. The merchant is always concerned about the buyer. I’m as concerned about the merchant. I’ve been through the home renovation ordeals and one piss poor cue maker.
Good responses from everyone.. let’s raise a little awareness for new buyers …
There are some builders on the forum I’d have no issue with an online or phone order.
There were a few I’m glad I choose not to work with.

I never paid a 50% deposit for any of my customs and all of them fall within the above price parameters,
except for my Schon cue Bob Runde built in 1984 that cost $800 back at that time. The most I ever paid
as a deposit for ordering a cue was 20% down and balance due before shipping with progress payments.

Along the way, I always received updates about the cues and since 2010, I’ve also received photos of my
cues under construction so I could make progress payments to avoid a paying balance of thousands of
dollars. One cue maker, Jerry Rauenzahn, even sent me my cue before my check ever reached him but it
was my 2nd custom cue from him. We had become close pals by that time so he knew me pretty well.

The idea of paying 50% to place any cue order with any cue maker is absurd. I’d never do that and I’ve
never done business with a cue maker that required a larger down payment than 20%. If any cue maker
asks for that much of a down payment, first of all don’t do it and then secondly, go fund another cue maker.

 

[GoldCrown]

I never paid a 50% deposit for any of my customs and all of them fall within the above price parameters,
except for my Schon cue Bob Runde built in 1984 that cost $800 back at that time. The most I ever paid
as a deposit for ordering a cue was 20% down and balance due before shipping with progress payments.

Along the way, I always received updates about the cues and since 2010, I’ve also received photos of my
cues under construction so I could make progress payments to avoid a paying balance of thousands of
dollars. One cue maker, Jerry Rauenzahn, even sent me my cue before my check ever reached him but it
was my 2nd custom cue from him. We had become close pals by that time so he knew me pretty well.

The idea of paying 50% to place any cue order with any cue maker is absurd. I’d never do that and I’ve
never done business with a cue maker that required a larger down payment than 20%. If any cue maker
asks for that much of a down payment, first of all don’t do it and then secondly, go fund another cue maker.

20% is a lot to lose. Money is money. You dealt with makers that are 100% solid. You seem to know what you’re doing and who to deal with. A majority doesn’t.
We continue… people looking for custom
cue makers need to research thoroughly.
Edit. I paid 1/2 down on a $1000 cue. Ordered it at the first SBE with a credit card. Used the card as I do not carry checks or large sums. Credit cards have protection if it’s in line with CC policies

 

[Bavafongoul]

Well, let’s look at it from the cue maker’s perspective. Let’s take a cue that was quoted at $3,600.
20% down is $720 and that is a lot of money that can already buy a pretty nice pool cue. I concur.

The cue maker has to get the materials or at least replenish his inventory for what he’ll use and the
replacement cost is often more than their inventory cost. Be that as it may, the cue maker has to
cover his materials expense and there can be spoilage like when working with small abalone inlays
that has a tendency to split & fracture causing it to be discarded as waste just like other materials.

One of my cues has hundreds of ivory & abalone inlays that took a lot of time to install which translates
into time, i.e., labor. That cue took a lot of CNC programming time arranging the custom design before
a single piece of wood was cut. Plus, the physical time required to assemble the cue throughout the
various phases encompassing 14 months from order date to completion. I won’t bother telling revealing
how many hours was required. For what I spent, the cue maker’s hourly rate, if he was billing hourly rather
than his flat rate quote for my cue, well, he was tremendously underpaid.

And during the 14 months my cue was being made, the 20% I paid my cue makers has to help cover their
materials expense, labor, overhead, occupancy, utilities, salaries, payroll taxes, accounting costs, benefits
costs, insurance (general liability, casualty, fire & flood, workers comp, auto), postage, communications,
advertising (expressed as unpaid time invested to produce videos or photos of cues made) and trade shows.

So even if the cue maker had 25 cues underway and all of the cues cost $3,600, which is a very high average
cue cost but let’s make the average cost $4,000. That’s $800 down payment x 25 cues = $20,000 without any
other payments until the cues are completed. Let’s say the cue maker knocked out all 25 cues in 9 months and
that would be a feat feat since glued veneers should sit for awhile. Jerry R. would let his work sit for 10-12 weeks
drying. So over the 9 months, that comes to $2225 (round money) a month. Pretty hard to run a successful, high
quality cue making operation and for this train to ever reach financial momentum under these conditions is to have
an assembly line knocking out hundreds of cues but with very few customs. Running a cue making business is no
different than any other business. You have to cover your costs and make a profit so accept the terms or don’t buy.

 

[WildWing]

You're buying a fairly expensive cue...or sending your high end for repair. What is a fair contract/agreement for both parties. No agreements are a loose end and problematic. Regardless research who you deal with. A one person shop is risky. (That goes for any trade). Some/most cue makers are first class..They have a reputation and pride.

I'll start.... buyers or cue-makers please chime in. The goal is a satisfied transition. If any cuemaker would like to post how they operate please do so.



X mount deposit. Balanced in full before shipping.
Cue to be finished approximately in x amount of weeks/months
If buyer defaults deposit is forfeited. Deposit possibly be returned if cue is sold to another party after default..(makers choice)
If cue cannot be finished for WHATEVER reason deposit gets returned. (The deposit should be put aside by the maker. They cannot say they do not have it.)
If nothing is reasonably wrong with the cue the owner OWNS it. Corrections have to made good in a reasonable amount of defined time. Reasonably wrong meaning some instructions were missed... one area is obviously not 100%.
Buyer must inspect and confirm condition/satisfaction immediately.
Warranty is up to the maker to decide if the cue was abused or neglected.

Just tell them to take a Louisville Slugger to make a cue out of it. Case closed.

Hey I'm not kidding. One of the stories Tim Scruggs told me in his Joss days was that a guy kept breaking cues. So they took a Louisville Slugger and made a cue out of it. Problem over.

 

[iusedtoberich]

IMO, there should be a rev controlled drawing of the cue, that the buyer and seller sign off on. This would list all the specs the cue would be built to. Once agreed upon, if the buyer wants a change, the buyer should pay for it, even if the build has not begun. Time is money.

Separate to that, there should be a money agreement. It would have timeframe, deposits, cost of changes to the drawing, etc.

Negating all of the above, and what I personally believe: Custom guys should not be custom at all. Let them make whatever they want, whenever they want. Then list it for sale once 100% ready for shipping. Don't accept any custom orders. Don't even do repairs on your own cues, leave that to the few repair shops that do great work in 2 weeks. That will make it better on everyone.

 

[GoldCrown]

Well, let’s look at it from the cue maker’s perspective. Let’s take a cue that was quoted at $3,600.
20% down is $720 and that is a lot of money that can already buy a pretty nice pool cue. I concur.

The cue maker has to get the materials or at least replenish his inventory for what he’ll use and the
replacement cost is often more than their inventory cost. Be that as it may, the cue maker has to
cover his materials expense and there can be spoilage like when working with small abalone inlays
that has a tendency to split & fracture causing it to be discarded as waste just like other materials.

One of my cues has hundreds of ivory & abalone inlays that took a lot of time to install which translates
into time, i.e., labor. That cue took a lot of CNC programming time arranging the custom design before
a single piece of wood was cut. Plus, the physical time required to assemble the cue throughout the
various phases encompassing 14 months from order date to completion. I won’t bother telling revealing
how many hours was required. For what I spent, the cue maker’s hourly rate, if he was billing hourly rather
than his flat rate quote for my cue, well, he was tremendously underpaid.

And during the 14 months my cue was being made, the 20% I paid my cue makers has to help cover their
materials expense, labor, overhead, occupancy, utilities, salaries, payroll taxes, accounting costs, benefits
costs, insurance (general liability, casualty, fire & flood, workers comp, auto), postage, communications,
advertising (expressed as unpaid time invested to produce videos or photos of cues made) and trade shows.

So even if the cue maker had 25 cues underway and all of the cues cost $3,600, which is a very high average
cue cost but let’s make the average cost $4,000. That’s $800 down payment x 25 cues = $20,000 without any
other payments until the cues are completed. Let’s say the cue maker knocked out all 25 cues in 9 months and
that would be a feat feat since glued veneers should sit for awhile. Jerry R. would let his work sit for 10-12 weeks
drying. So over the 9 months, that comes to $2225 (round money) a month. Pretty hard to run a successful, high
quality cue making operation and for this train to ever reach financial momentum under these conditions is to have
an assembly line knocking out hundreds of cues but with very few customs. Running a cue making business is no
different than any other business. You have to cover your costs and make a profit so accept the terms or don’t buy.

Understood and a buyer can sleep tight when dealing with a reputable cuemaker. The transaction has to have an equal balance. If the cue maker gets sick or his place gets flooded that’s just the way it goes. Unless they’re insured and will reimburse. I mentioned earlier about an expensive purchase I was uncomfortable with so I never got started. I was concerned about the craftsman’s health or the unforeseen. I understood his position.
You’re a smart buyer. Most here buy on trust/impulse

 

[iusedtoberich]

Questions to ask cue builder?

1. Contractor License #

...snip...

Are you all there? Cue-makers don't need a license. Some trades do, like plumbing, electrical, cutting hair, etc. I'm sure that also varies state to state some. Cue-making is not a trade. It's a business. I have a product design business and I don't need a license. I have an LLC for taxes, but that is for uncle sam, it has nothing to do with licensing.

 

[GoldCrown]

IMO, there should be a rev controlled drawing of the cue, that the buyer and seller sign off on. This would list all the specs the cue would be built to. Once agreed upon, if the buyer wants a change, the buyer should pay for it, even if the build has not begun. Time is money.

Separate to that, there should be a money agreement. It would have timeframe, deposits, cost of changes to the drawing, etc.

Negating all of the above, and what I personally believe: Custom guys should not be custom at all. Let them make whatever they want, whenever they want. Then list it for sale once 100% ready for shipping. Don't accept any custom orders. Don't even do repairs on your own cues, leave that to the few repair shops that do great work in 2 weeks. That will make it better on everyone.

Frey did a line of sneakies and had an agent represent and sell them for him

 

[Dunnn51]

I don't see how you can have a "custom" cue made without good communication with the cuemaker. I had one custom made and we conversed at first by phone and an e-mailed base diagram of what I wanted. Then we discussed details ad nauseum by phone backed up with pictures by E-mail. Itsa Custom cue, meaning it will be unique. My cue even has a name to it as well as a historic background giving meaning to parts of the cue. You can't do that without great communication.
As far as payment goes, I would not expect a cuemaker to start my "custom" cue w/o a decent deposit. Once the ball gets rolling, you can make a progress payment, and then the balance due upon completion, but before shipment/delivery. I must have gotten 20 E-mails and 3-4 phone conversations over the building of the cue.
I would say 30-50% down lets the cuemaker get a good start w/o having to worry about costs. Also a good chunk of $$$ upfront makes them feel at ease that you are serious about the build. Set clear terms with a timeline, (appox), and a price.

 

[maha]

best to have a maker near enough so you can go visit if need be.
small deposit and maybe more when and only when he starts on it.
a time frame that gives him leeway but at his failure you immediately get your money back and can decide if you still want it when done.
must have a superb rep you can check online.
a house or place of business he owns in his name which you can check easily on line.