Out of interest.

Bob Jewett

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That must be a sight to see for anyone, let alone a novice like myself. By chance have you seen the place?
If you can arrange a trip to the US, I highly recommend going to Norfolk, Virginia at the time of the International Open (around Halloween). There are multiple tournaments including 9-ball, 10-ball, one pocket, juniors and 14.1.

Q-Master is about 15 minutes from the main venue. Their tournament room has 14(?) tables and raised spectator seating.
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
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Hearsay, I guess? No, and why so defensive, it just a casual question I'm simply asking out of curiosity Gasczar. Not a writer, a complete novice when it comes to pool. I'd also guess the one mentioned above, was not a regulated game, but a private challenge. But maybe you will correct me?
Questions easily answered c/o Google though.

There will be a lot of them if you stay interested!

Private gambling? Sky's the limit and guaranteed...a lot is ...private.
Screenshot_20230310-140936.jpg
 

Cornerman

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Story as I’ve heard for 20 years from different sources. Was Archer ran 13 opening set . Busty then ask if Archer wanted to double the bet . Archer said keep it the same. Busty won the next two sets. 2k was the per set wager that I heard. I did see the diamond table signed 13 & out Archer.
Other than seeing the signed table I don’t know if it’s true or not but it is a cool story.
I only brought it up do to someone posting about long continuous runs.
Never let the truth get in the way of a good story!
See my post. I link to the interview that Johnny talks about it.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
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It's funny, I've never heard of a "tournament" 10 pack before Earl's feat, or since. It did seem a good bet for the insurance company. I wonder if they are still around, and know it never happened again.
The insurance actuaries didn’t realize something , IMO. By putting up a million, they changed the odds.
A 10 pack now became more valuable than winning a match.
 

michael4

AzB Silver Member
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The insurance actuaries didn’t realize something , IMO. By putting up a million, they changed the odds.
A 10 pack now became more valuable than winning a match.
working with insurance companies as i do, one reason they can refuse to pay is based on (what they consider) material misrepresentation at the time of applying for the policy.
I'm just speculating here, and making up facts, but lets say the policy was purchased with the understanding that the tables would be 9 feet. If they turned out to be 8 feet, I can see an insurance company trying to rescind the policy, (ie give just the premium back and cancel the policy.)

I would be curious what their reason for denial was.....
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
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working with insurance companies as i do, one reason they can refuse to pay is based on (what they consider) material misrepresentation at the time of applying for the policy.
I'm just speculating here, and making up facts, but lets say the policy was purchased with the understanding that the tables would be 9 feet. If they turned out to be 8 feet, I can see an insurance company trying to rescind the policy, (ie give just the premium back and cancel the policy.)

I would be curious what their reason for denial was.....
A man won a Nobel Prize years ago by calculating how much the experiment affects the results.
By putting up a million for the 10 pack, they made it more probable.
 

Bob Jewett

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The insurance actuaries didn’t realize something , IMO. By putting up a million, they changed the odds.
A 10 pack now became more valuable than winning a match.
Yes, I think it was a match Earl was pretty sure to win, so a risky bank or three was worth the possible reward.

The insurance people also seem to have not understood the rules. A nine on the break counted as a run. By a contemporaneous account, there were five nine balls pocketed on the break. (I have no reason to doubt the person who wrote that at the time, but I wasn't there.) Earl was racking for himself at the start of the run. The other thing that changed the odds was the length of the match. I think it was a race to 15. That is a lot different from races to 10 or 11.

In any case, I think the person who advised the insurance company was not competent in that not all these details were straightened out beforehand.
 

Bob Jewett

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JJ mentioned Earl's 11pack in PLP commentary today. His take was the insurance company wanted more proof like more tape showing all the racks.
The story at the time was that the recording had to start after rack five. It didn't start until a rack later, so the need to run 11 rather than 10.
If I'm not mistaken, the million was an annuity and the 630K was a lump sum payout, which is going to be less. I saw an interview and Earl seemed happy with the end result. I would have been nice if he hadn't had to fight for it after he already won it.
That's what I heard as well. Just like Lotto payouts these days. 30 years for the full amount or take about half now.

In any case, I don't think the bonus counts as a tournament prize in the context of the OP's question.
 

u12armresl

One Pocket back cutter
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Can anyone tell me what the biggest payout win was for a pool match in American history, and who played and won?. Also the biggest private game too maybe?
Lastly what would be the largest pool hall in American, with how many tables, and is any city known as a pool playing city?

I'm trying to learn a little about the history, players, matches, and pool in general. Thanks all.
Sorry Agent Ricky9ball who just joined, but I have never heard of any private games before.
 

kling&allen

AzB Gold Member
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The largest tournament payouts on USA soil were the IPT events in 2005/6. The biggest of the 2-4 events (I forgot the exact number) they had was 500k USD for first place, won by Efren. Thorsten won another one that was 350k for first place. There were some problems with the money, but the players eventually were paid.

The 1MM referenced above was not a tournament win. It was a bonus if any player could break and run 10 consecutive racks. Earl did it. The money was from an insurance company, that refused to pay at first. Eventually they settled and paid approx half.

The 1859 match between Phelan and Seereiter had a purse of $15000, which is just over $500k in today's dollars.
 
Guys, really interesting and its started a good thread. It's one of the reasons I join, to learn a bit of the history, and peoples stories and recollection of the times. Google is ok for facts, but it does not have the little stories that go with it, thanks for the feedback. I cannot imagine the adrenaline, or fear of shooting for $1000, let alone a million?:eek:
 

Zerksies

Well-known member
If I'm not mistaken, the million was an annuity and the 630K was a lump sum payout, which is going to be less. I saw an interview and Earl seemed happy with the end result. I would have been nice if he hadn't had to fight for it after he already won it.
Just more d bags in the pool world not wanting to pay
 

kling&allen

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Guys, really interesting and its started a good thread. It's one of the reasons I join, to learn a bit of the history, and peoples stories and recollection of the times. Google is ok for facts, but it does not have the little stories that go with it, thanks for the feedback. I cannot imagine the adrenaline, or fear of shooting for $1000, let alone a million?:eek:

Some book recommendations for you:


 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes, I think it was a match Earl was pretty sure to win, so a risky bank or three was worth the possible reward.

The insurance people also seem to have not understood the rules. A nine on the break counted as a run. By a contemporaneous account, there were five nine balls pocketed on the break. (I have no reason to doubt the person who wrote that at the time, but I wasn't there.) Earl was racking for himself at the start of the run. The other thing that changed the odds was the length of the match. I think it was a race to 15. That is a lot different from races to 10 or 11.

In any case, I think the person who advised the insurance company was not competent in that not all these details were straightened out beforehand.
Yes. My recollection is a bit foggy, but wasn't one of those games an early 9? Such as a 3 - 9 combo?


The story at the time was that the recording had to start after rack five. It didn't start until a rack later, so the need to run 11 rather than 10.

That's what I heard as well. Just like Lotto payouts these days. 30 years for the full amount or take about half now.

In any case, I don't think the bonus counts as a tournament prize in the context of the OP's question.
I didn't see where the op mentioned tournament. The op said "pool match" and "private match". Pool match is a general definition. So I think Earls accomplishment applies.
 

tomatoshooter

Well-known member
I think you owe Jay a big apology. Your "facts" were skewed.
I think the organizer could have been better prepared, I read that the first racks were not recorded. The insurance company didn't understand the game as far as 9s on the break and early combos. That should have been clarified but it's their responsibility to ask questions.
 
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