Pantographs, Still used?
- Thread starter Shooter08
- Start date
If you buy it, 99% chance it will just collect dust .
Big boat anchor?
Hard Knock Cues
Well-known member
I'm still using one because I haven't gone to cnc yet. Where and how much, I might need parts. Pictures?
I don't use it much and yes it's dusty
Not much IMO. Here is another, in Ontario Canada, top brand selling for under $1000 US
Pantograph Engraveing machine | Power Tools | Mississauga / Peel Region | Kijiji
Nice engraving machine. Includes all the collets and extra belts. Made in England. Pick up in Mississauga. If your looking for one, get this one. Price OBO
www.kijiji.ca
Dave
snookered_again
Well-known member
I have a friend locally who was showing some results of having CNC lettering done by a local machine shop in aluminum.. the application required a very accurate surface finish.. the quality was very good. I always find that destroying beautiful old machines like that is a bit heartbreaking.. and getting them to pay rent is impossible.. Maybe there is a guy with the space that can house them and keep them warm and dry and appreciated for being the mechanical marvels they are. .. its worth it's weight in cast iron. maybe it's practical for a one off application like lettering on cues or similar. CNC is an investment too.
I know there a few still out there not yet willing to cave to modern technology.
25 yrs ago I had a Gorton panto mill that I messed with for a few yrs before I converted it a computer op machine. It has since been sent to the old panto home and I forcibly made myself learn to write my own G code on a much newer style machine. Never looked back or thought to myself gee, I wish I had that panto mill back!
25 yrs ago I had a Gorton panto mill that I messed with for a few yrs before I converted it a computer op machine. It has since been sent to the old panto home and I forcibly made myself learn to write my own G code on a much newer style machine. Never looked back or thought to myself gee, I wish I had that panto mill back!
snookered_again
Well-known member
I just do manual machining, it's way less productive than one can crank out with CNC, thing is that with just a few machines, welder, lathe mill , bandsaw etc, I can go from fixing a machine and finding a broken part to creating a new part, fix the machine , get it up and running in less time than I could even communicate what I wanted to a machine shop or parts vendor.. let alone order it..
a lot of the younger machinists get training learn CNC then get a job standing in front of a CNC doing repetitive tasks.. Its still a fairly complex trade, but in many aspects it's changed. I worked in a highly technical industry and I've done repetitive jobs. I did lot of electronic related troubleshooting I enjoy the hands on type of work now and Im good at it and have lots of skills.. I think I reached about 40 got laid off , and realized I dont need to live in front of a screen and it's not good for me.. It just so happened that the hands on aspects of my trade became very much in demand.. I'd rather be crawling around turning wrenches so that was my choice. I had to learn a lot of propriety sequences and machine codes... most of the guys I worked with were really strong in IT mostly engineers and IT guys and such, most were very weak when they actually had to work with their hands.. they all had "clean hands"
I think I've forgotten a lot of that coding now, I won't use it as it was so proprietary and I knew that as I was learning it..
I think one reason I didn't like studying it was because I couldn't put it to physical use and I needed to be in touch with things and objects and move around.. No doubt what can be done by CNC is impressive. When the CNC machine breaks down and stops, thats where I get involved.. they can use robots to replace workers but they don't make robots that fix robots, (yet) I'm safe from tech replacing me for the rest of my career anyway.
a lot of the younger machinists get training learn CNC then get a job standing in front of a CNC doing repetitive tasks.. Its still a fairly complex trade, but in many aspects it's changed. I worked in a highly technical industry and I've done repetitive jobs. I did lot of electronic related troubleshooting I enjoy the hands on type of work now and Im good at it and have lots of skills.. I think I reached about 40 got laid off , and realized I dont need to live in front of a screen and it's not good for me.. It just so happened that the hands on aspects of my trade became very much in demand.. I'd rather be crawling around turning wrenches so that was my choice. I had to learn a lot of propriety sequences and machine codes... most of the guys I worked with were really strong in IT mostly engineers and IT guys and such, most were very weak when they actually had to work with their hands.. they all had "clean hands"
I think I've forgotten a lot of that coding now, I won't use it as it was so proprietary and I knew that as I was learning it..
I think one reason I didn't like studying it was because I couldn't put it to physical use and I needed to be in touch with things and objects and move around.. No doubt what can be done by CNC is impressive. When the CNC machine breaks down and stops, thats where I get involved.. they can use robots to replace workers but they don't make robots that fix robots, (yet) I'm safe from tech replacing me for the rest of my career anyway.
Hard Knock Cues
Well-known member
I can relate to all of that, I also feel more satisfied using my hands to build something. Partly I can't afford the CNC right now. Besides I think the feel and playability of a cue is more important than the looks. If I get that part down I'm sure I'll want to jazz up the looks with cnc possibly. First things first though!
I believe there may be some misconception for the use of a computer operated machine in the cue building industry. Yes, they can be programed to do an inlay and make the cue look a bit fancier to the eye. And yes it has zero to do with playability, IMO.
The reason I have a use for and have built computer operated machines is mundane, repetitive work in my shop.
If you look at 99.9% of the cues I have built over the last 29 yrs, you will see about .1 of one percent that have any considered inlays in them.
Cutting point pockets....usually 15 to 20 forearms in one setup
Cutting one piece V veneers....I usually do 4 veneers per point so you can figure the math on that
Cutting slots in billets for ringwork....12 slots in each billet, usually a dozen or so billets of different sizes
Cutting slices off of billets for ringwork.... I generally get around 20 slices per inch...some of my designs have 12 to 20 slices in each of the 7 positions used for each cue
Squaring point pieces....4 points per cue...you do the math
Rough cutting shafts....50 to 100 at a time..
These are just a few of the repetitive jobs that would send me to the nut house if I had to stand at a lathe/mill and hand crank these parts. After doing it for so many years in my shop it's considered monkey work. (no offense to anyone still hand cranking) that's why I said "in my shop."
I honestly don't think I'd still be building cues if I were hand cranking these parts.
Did I start out with all of these being done on a cnc? That's a big NO! And that's why they are done today by computer operated machines.
The reason I have a use for and have built computer operated machines is mundane, repetitive work in my shop.
If you look at 99.9% of the cues I have built over the last 29 yrs, you will see about .1 of one percent that have any considered inlays in them.
Cutting point pockets....usually 15 to 20 forearms in one setup
Cutting one piece V veneers....I usually do 4 veneers per point so you can figure the math on that
Cutting slots in billets for ringwork....12 slots in each billet, usually a dozen or so billets of different sizes
Cutting slices off of billets for ringwork.... I generally get around 20 slices per inch...some of my designs have 12 to 20 slices in each of the 7 positions used for each cue
Squaring point pieces....4 points per cue...you do the math
Rough cutting shafts....50 to 100 at a time..
These are just a few of the repetitive jobs that would send me to the nut house if I had to stand at a lathe/mill and hand crank these parts. After doing it for so many years in my shop it's considered monkey work. (no offense to anyone still hand cranking) that's why I said "in my shop."
I honestly don't think I'd still be building cues if I were hand cranking these parts.
Did I start out with all of these being done on a cnc? That's a big NO! And that's why they are done today by computer operated machines.
Hard Knock Cues
Well-known member
Point well taken and I understand. I, myself am not at that level of production . If I get to that point and need computer operated machines for the reasons you stated, I'm sure I would invest in them. At the moment it's hand's on and learning by feel.
And what the wallet can afford.