Pat Fleming - The Creative Edge - 14.1 Break Shots
- Thread starter Blackjack
- Start date
This video is the NUTS... and pat is just right to teach this stuff... just has one of those voices suited for instruction I guess.
The 9 ball push strategy really got me. I feel like this is one of those pool things that should be basic knowledge for everyone, and probably it IS common knowledge among pros, but somehow it's eluded anyone at our local pool hall. I can't wait to start using it.
And I never really though about how to make an intentional double kiss safe without risk of the OB leaking out... the draw is the key.
Something I don't get... why does pat favor outside english on those two standard break shots where the CB is parallel to the OB, or there's an "outside" angle? This was already discussed before, and I sort of came to the conclusion that the outside english does nothing. But pat seems very technical in the way he approaches things, the rest of this material has concrete reasoning behind everything. So what's the reasoning on those break shots? The CB eventually hits a rail but it doesn't look like that's a factor.
The 9 ball push strategy really got me. I feel like this is one of those pool things that should be basic knowledge for everyone, and probably it IS common knowledge among pros, but somehow it's eluded anyone at our local pool hall. I can't wait to start using it.
And I never really though about how to make an intentional double kiss safe without risk of the OB leaking out... the draw is the key.
Something I don't get... why does pat favor outside english on those two standard break shots where the CB is parallel to the OB, or there's an "outside" angle? This was already discussed before, and I sort of came to the conclusion that the outside english does nothing. But pat seems very technical in the way he approaches things, the rest of this material has concrete reasoning behind everything. So what's the reasoning on those break shots? The CB eventually hits a rail but it doesn't look like that's a factor.
Here are some layouts that Wei Chao created from the video - thanks Wei!
Creedo, if you do some experimenting with the english that Pat recommends in this video, you will see that on the bottom of the stack break balls, that the english pulls the cue ball in a straight line to the rail and away from the pocket.
On the traditional break shots, the top right english is sending the CB into the stack and then forward and away from the corner pocket - 3 rails.
The top left I have not tried yet - but I believe it will take the cue ball straight out to the rail.
The bottom right pulls the cue ball into the balls and then towards either
A) center table
B) the side rail
All of this depends on the angle of the Break Shot as well as the speed of your stroke.
Creedo, if you do some experimenting with the english that Pat recommends in this video, you will see that on the bottom of the stack break balls, that the english pulls the cue ball in a straight line to the rail and away from the pocket.
On the traditional break shots, the top right english is sending the CB into the stack and then forward and away from the corner pocket - 3 rails.
The top left I have not tried yet - but I believe it will take the cue ball straight out to the rail.
The bottom right pulls the cue ball into the balls and then towards either
A) center table
B) the side rail
All of this depends on the angle of the Break Shot as well as the speed of your stroke.
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Howdy again - yup, the english choice for the behind-the-stack stuff makes perfect sense to me. The way it was explained to me is if the CB is going to hit the corner ball or the next ball in... and it doesn't look like it's heading for the crack between two balls... high outside lets you spin off 1 rail to the center of the table... the tangent line is horizontal enough. If the break ball is hitting the middle ball (or generally the middle of the pack) then high inside for 3 rails is needed, the ball is heading towards the pocket and outside won't bring it uphill enough.
But what's the deal with the upper pic (where you use top right or bottom right)? I'm wondering what the right does. If I recall correctly, the CB didn't hit the side or bottom rail after any of these breaks. It just smacked the side of the pack and then kinda climbed towards the middle of the table.
But what's the deal with the upper pic (where you use top right or bottom right)? I'm wondering what the right does. If I recall correctly, the CB didn't hit the side or bottom rail after any of these breaks. It just smacked the side of the pack and then kinda climbed towards the middle of the table.
Great find, Blackjack. The stuff on how to hit a break shot is solid info for "B" players like you and I (and a lot of us here).
I think another piece of info to add to that vid would be to mention about knowing which ball you are contacting in the stack. That info, along with the info in the vid would be all you need to know about getting a good breakshot off.
Eric
Two very bizarre posts in this thread in the last hour, lol.
A rule about a 9-ball push out, and Blackjack getting called a "B" player. Are we in the twilight zone?
- Steve
Just to add a little something about Pat Fleming, whom I've know for almost thirty years -----
I think that, because his wonderful accomplishments through Accu-stats may overshadow his competitive credentials, many forget just how fine a straight pool player he really was. In the PPPA World 14.1 championship (1981, I think, but I'm not sure), Pat had Mike Sigel on the ropes in the semifinals, only to be beaten out of a spot in the finals when Sigel delivered a truly masterful 95 and out. I had a ringside seat for that one at the Roosevelt Hotel in NYC, and remember it well.
I think that, because his wonderful accomplishments through Accu-stats may overshadow his competitive credentials, many forget just how fine a straight pool player he really was. In the PPPA World 14.1 championship (1981, I think, but I'm not sure), Pat had Mike Sigel on the ropes in the semifinals, only to be beaten out of a spot in the finals when Sigel delivered a truly masterful 95 and out. I had a ringside seat for that one at the Roosevelt Hotel in NYC, and remember it well.
I actually met Pat Fleming for the first time waaaaaaay back on.... Saturday.
I was practicing at Comet for the upcoming tournaments, and Bill Haley asked if we'd ever met - I told him no, and he walked me over to the Accu-Stats booth and introduced us.We had a nice talk - I told him how thankful I was for his tapes and how they had helped me so much, and how I'd heard he was a tremendous player when he was competing. A really humble and open guy, he seemed genuinely happier to receive the compliment about Accu-Stats.
- Steve
Was I wrong about that?
I know that I'm definitely a "B" player
Eric >on a good day
I find your question bizarre because this is the straight pool forum...
Anyway, the answer is that any ball pocketed on a push stays down, except for the 9, just as you surmised. Further, if you are spotting someone a ball, that ball would come up as well (if pocketed on the push). So if I am spotting you the 5 ball, I can't just push and fire the 5 in, leaving the cueball in a tough spot for the 1. I'd do that rack after rack. The 5 would get spotted.
- Steve
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