Pat's CTE System

Ok, how is it that you own a table,own the dvd, have this vast cte knowledge you keep telling everyone you have and yet you say you are unable to figure out how to get this simple A visual? We will start from the beginning and work our way through, ok. you can ask yours next.
I assume you're saying that we can see directly along both lines so our eyes must be in the right position. This kind of "visualization" is bound to turn out differently for different people (one reason is different eye dominance - that's not the only reason). For instance, I see the CTE line in your photo, but not the "A" line. So I'd move my eyes to a different position and shoot a different shot than you would. At least one of us would miss.

pj
chgo
 
I assume you're saying that we can see directly along both lines so our eyes must be in the right position. This kind of "visualization" is bound to turn out differently for different people (one reason is different eye dominance - that's not the only reason). For instance, I see the CTE line in your photo, but not the "A" line. So I'd move my eyes to a different position and shoot a different shot than you would. At least one of us would miss.

pj
chgo

First im asking this because i am curious as to why you are having trouble with the visuals since you have known about this system for so long.

I will start with this first. If you can pick up the ctel there is no reason at all that you can not pick up that A line also.

You dont have to have one eye on aim line and the other eye on the ctel at the same time or look down between them like i have read in some of your posts or any other funky eye thing.

Pick up the ctel like in that picture i have posted and like you say you can, now move both your eyes over towards the aim line and try and pick it up also, you may/most likely have to move your stance to do this. Now if you have them in your visuals you should be able to move your eyes from side to side and have both lines in sight. You now hold this position!!!!!!!!!

You should be able to figure this out in 5 minutes right now! Do not over think this because its a simple thing to figure out! This system is difficult to debate with a person who doesnt know how to do it and is as stubborn as you are.

IMG_0088.jpg
 
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I assume you're saying that we can see directly along both lines so our eyes must be in the right position. This kind of "visualization" is bound to turn out differently for different people (one reason is different eye dominance - that's not the only reason). For instance, I see the CTE line in your photo, but not the "A" line. So I'd move my eyes to a different position and shoot a different shot than you would. At least one of us would miss.

pj
chgo

I don't see how that is possible since this is a 2D picture of a 3D perspective. No matter what your eye dominance is, you can't change the angle on the photo. If you can't see the A-line here it's not because of eye dominance, it's because of some mental lack of seeing the line. Maybe drawing the lines would make it crystal clear.
 
You can make the cue ball curve in two directions in the same shot? Like an S-curve? Dude, Pat's CTE System wants to sponsor you - free aiming advice for life if you wear my Pat's Scope Sight Aiming Glasses at your next trick shot exhibition!

pj <- I'll throw in the Night Vision attachment for nothin'
chgo

Actually a Finger Billiardist named Yank Adams claimed he could make a cue ball do an S curve but I never found any documented evidence. I did however see it done with a bowling ball on a bowling lane on Wide World of Sports many years ago.
Thanks for the laughs
I had an idea and went down and got an old motorcycle helmet with a full face shield and taped crosshairs in the area where my line of sight falls when I am perfect on the ball, man what a difference that makes !
I just made 67 bank shots in a row. I was trying to cut the ball down the rail and got discouraged but at least now I know the trick to banking. Just try to shoot it straight in, maybe if I try to bank I will make cut shots?
I'll be right back!!!
 
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champ2107:
you should be able to move your eyes from side to side and have both lines in sight. You now hold this position!!!!!!!!!
You're describing a position somewhere between the two positions needed to sight along each line separately. That's not nearly precise enough to define how to align your stick to make actual pool shots (but it's probably a useful starting approximation if you like doing things this way).

pj
chgo
 
Me:
...This kind of "visualization" is bound to turn out differently for different people (one reason is different eye dominance - that's not the only reason). For instance, I see the CTE line in your photo, but not the "A" line. So I'd move my eyes to a different position and shoot a different shot than you would. At least one of us would miss.
mohrt:
I don't see how that is possible since this is a 2D picture of a 3D perspective. No matter what your eye dominance is, you can't change the angle on the photo. If you can't see the A-line here it's not because of eye dominance, it's because of some mental lack of seeing the line. Maybe drawing the lines would make it crystal clear.
Of course I can see a line from the left edge of the cue ball to the left quarter of the object ball. What I can't see is how it's supposed to help guide me to where my eyes should be located according to the system - unless it's just somewhere between the two positions needed to sight along each line separately, and that's not precise enough for aiming in pool.

Eye dominance may not apply to interpreting 2D pictures (I'm not sure either of us knows), but it certainly may apply to interpreting 3D real life where this system is supposed to operate, especially when trying to determine a (so far undefined) position between two lines.

pj
chgo
 
Actually a Finger Billiardist named Yank Adams claimed he could make a cue ball do an S curve but I never found any documented evidence. I did however see it done with a bowling ball on a bowling lane on Wide World of Sports many years ago.
Thanks for the laughs
I had an idea and went down and got an old motorcycle helmet with a full face shield and taped crosshairs in the area where my line of sight falls when I am perfect on the ball, man what a difference that makes !
I just made 67 bank shots in a row. I was trying to cut the ball down the rail and got discouraged but at least now I know the trick to banking. Just try to shoot it straight in, maybe if I try to bank I will make cut shots?
I'll be right back!!!
LOL.

pj
chgo
 
Of course I can see a line from the left edge of the cue ball to the left quarter of the object ball. What I can't see is how it's supposed to help guide me to where my eyes should be located according to the system - unless it's just somewhere between the two positions needed to sight along each line separately, and that's not precise enough for aiming in pool.

Eye dominance may not apply to interpreting 2D pictures (I'm not sure either of us knows), but it certainly may apply to interpreting 3D real life where this system is supposed to operate, especially when trying to determine a (so far undefined) position between two lines.

pj
chgo

OK I think I have a way to describe the system, and why there is so much conflict with it. Or not, but I'll try :)

How (I understand) how this CTE system is supposed to work:

1) identify the shot determined by cue ball, object ball, and pocket placement. (left cut, right cut, A/B/C)
2) move your head/eyes/body into position so you can see both lines (CTE and ET-A/B/C)
3) move straight into the shot, keeping these visuals in sight, and position the cue 1/2 tip left/right, then pivot to center.
4) shoot.

So the big question is, where are you aiming when you move into the shot? Showing this line on a diagram probably won't help much because (when down on the shot) it can look slightly different for every person. Everyone has their own eye dominance, and their own way of perceiving a 3D perspective on a shot. However, there is only one line of aim that will work, and that is found through practice. Once you have it, you are locked on. You use the exact same visual and movement into the shot once you know where that is for you.

The aiming itself is not unlike the ghostball system: you line up your shot to the ghostball however your mind/body does it, and shoot. Shoot and shoot and shoot until you are happy with your shot making percentages. Same with CTE: line up the visuals, get the cue and bridge in line, pivot and shoot. Shoot and shoot until you find it.

The difference with CTE and ghostball is that there is only a handful of visuals you need to learn (CTE, CBE-ABC, 1/8ths) whereas ghostball is infinite. CTE gets you shooting center pocket much quicker than a million shots. There are many shots that are not so easy to line up with ghostball, whereas CTE you can line up any shot since you are just using the cue ball and object ball as visuals upon the actual shot. With CTE you have two very strong lines of aim on your visual, whereas ghostball you have to imagine a ball to shoot at, and this gets very difficult on long and thin cuts.
 
You're describing a position somewhere between the two positions needed to sight along each line separately. That's not nearly precise enough to define how to align your stick to make actual pool shots (but it's probably a useful starting approximation if you like doing things this way).

pj
chgo


This visual basically is showing/teaching you exact positioning you need to be in before you move on to the next step which will be finding the contact point on the ob. (I also think this positioning would help someone using any aiming method, my opinion)

Its showing you proper body,head,eyes alignment behind the cb to ob contact point even though you have not yet picked up the contact point, which will be the next step. You get it so far?

Dont jump ahead yet or try an catch me in a wording slip up also, it will be unproductive, but help if you can and lets stay on the visuals.
 
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Me:
You're describing a position somewhere between the two positions needed to sight along each line separately. That's not nearly precise enough to define how to align your stick to make actual pool shots.
champ2107:
This visual basically is showing/teaching you exact positioning you need to be in
As I said, neither you nor Stan's DVD has described an exact position, only that it involves "visualizing" two lines. Exactly what is the "visual" a player is supposed to see that shows he's in the exact position?

Dont jump ahead yet and lets stay on the visuals.
Don't worry - I'm not going anywhere until you give exact answers about the "visual" and the player's position it's supposed to dictate.

pj
chgo
 
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mohrt:
2) move your head/eyes/body into position so you can see both lines (CTE and ET-A/B/C)
What does "can see both lines" mean? "Can sight directly along both lines without changing the position of your eyes?" This is physically impossible for most shots.

pj
chgo
 
As I said, neither you nor Stan's DVD has described an exact position, only that it involves "visualizing" two lines. Exactly what is the "visual" a player is supposed to see that shows he's in the exact position?


Don't worry - I'm not going anywhere until you give exact answers about the visuals and the player's position they're supposed to dictate.

pj
chgo

Maybe i should change that than to "good or correct"? i personally dont care about all this exact,feel or adjustment stuff. Well the dvd clearly shows how to approach the shot, it very simple and you can not be serious about this???? I have posted a picture of the visual?????

Now do you actually think ghost ball or any other method has a easier or stronger visual than CTE/PRO1? CTE/pro1 has center cue ball <<< you know where that is! edge of object ball <<<< you know where that is! edge of cue ball <<< you know where that is! A-B-C <<< you know where that is! Ghost ball do you know where your contact point is? no you are pretty much, guessing aren't you?
 
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Me:
As I said, neither you nor Stan's DVD has described an exact position, only that it involves "visualizing" two lines. Exactly what is the "visual" a player is supposed to see that shows he's in the exact position?

Don't worry - I'm not going anywhere until you give exact answers about the visuals and the player's position they're supposed to dictate.
champ2107:Maybe i should change that than to "good or correct"? i personally dont care about all this exact,feel or adjustment stuff. Well the dvd clearly shows how to approach the shot, it very simple and you can not be serious about this???? I have posted a picture of the visual?????
So once again, after inviting me to this "conversation" and promising you'd "teach me something", when it gets to actually explaining the details you simply can't.

That's what I thought.

pj
chgo
 
This thread only proves one thing. And that, Pat, is that you truly are a "Johnson". ;)
Well, it also has allowed you to demonstrate once again that you have nothing useful to say. That's two things already and we've only just begun to count.

pj
chgo
 
This visual basically is showing/teaching you correct positioning you need to be in before you move on to the next step which will be finding the contact point on the ob. (I also think this positioning would help someone using any aiming method, my opinion)

Its showing you proper body,head,eyes alignment behind the cb to ob contact point even though you have not yet picked up the contact point, which will be the next step. You get it so far? Now do you actually think ghost ball or any other method has a easier or a stronger visual than CTE/PRO1? CTE/pro1 has center cue ball <<< you know where that is! edge of object ball <<<< you know where that is! edge of cue ball <<< you know where that is! A-B-C <<< you know where that is! as you continue further with the steps you will find the correct contact point. Ghost ball your imagining something that is not there and your guessing where the contact point is, correct?

I changed that to "correct"? i personally dont care about all this exact,feel or adjustment stuff. Well the dvd clearly shows how to approach the shot, its very simple and you can not be serious about this???? I have posted a picture of the visual?????

Now do you actually think ghost ball or any other method has a easier or stronger visual than CTE/PRO1? CTE/pro1 has center cue ball <<< you know where that is! edge of object ball <<<< you know where that is! edge of cue ball <<< you know where that is! A-B-C <<< you know where that is! Ghost ball do you know where your contact point is? no you are pretty much, guessing aren't you? Do you use ghost ball as a aiming method PJ?

Dont run away PJ, i asked you not to try and catch me in a wording issue? you seemed to have ignored the whole post and focused on one word?
 
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