Paypal Goods and Services vs Friends and Family

[bbb]

OK- why should I pay the seller's selling expenses? That is a cost of doing business that every seller needs to understand and factor into their asking price without expecting a buyer to forego their legal rights in a transaction.
IMO- going forward- let ALL sellers factor in taxes, selling fees, shipping fees etc. into their asking price and then let them price accordingly as ONE number.
Buyers should then make their own decision on whether they want to make an offer on a cue or not. Buyer should ALWAYS be afforded the opportunity to protect their legal rights under Payment system/credit laws/shipping laws and the sellers should respect this and just price upfront with ALL costs considered.

All of this B.S. of asking buyers to take the risk OR pay extra does fly with me anymore. I was naive in my first few custom cue purchases here on AZ and took the risk, just not to pay extra- fortunately there were no issues in my purchases- NEVER doing the again.
give me one asking price up front, or don't even mention F&F, or I just don't buy from you- period!

When I sell a Q
I dont know if someone wants to pay me with a check with a money order or with PayPal
Giving them options to me is a service as a seller
If the buyer can save 4% by sending me a check and me waiting till it clears great
If I state add 4% for goods and services via PayPal
well now you know what my selling price is
You dont have to get your panties in a bunch because of it
Just sayin

 

[bbb]

In today’s market when prices are low a seller understandably may not want to eat the three or 4%

 

[maha]

there is really only one of two reasons a seller wants f&f.

he wants to screw you or
he wants to keep you from screwing him.

saving 3% doesnt factor into a transaction. if it did you wouldnt be able to go anyplace with a credit card.

and sending f&f is no different than just sending cash in the mail to a stranger before you get your goods.

 

[hang-the-9]

Government Is not entitled. I do think it is a civic duty to pay taxes. We drive on the road, flush our toilets, still speak English, send our kids to schools, we have a lot of infrastructure that keeps our lives easy in this country.

What I can't figure out, is the logic of fairness when selling/reselling used goods. Someone already paid tax on it when it was first sold, how can there be continual attempted tax collection on it after that? Or "inheritance tax"? I mean whoever worked their lives to get some things to pass on to the kids already paid income tax on the money as well as tax on the items they purchased. Should be illegal to tax anything more than once, or at the very least the tax should be at a much lower rate than new goods never purchased before. Pretty sure our founding fathers had the same ideas about taxes when they dumped some tea at Boston.

 

[mikemosconi]

When I sell a Q
I dont know if someone wants to pay me with a check with a money order or with PayPal
Giving them options to me is a service as a seller
If the buyer can save 4% by sending me a check and me waiting till it clears great
If I state add 4% for goods and services via PayPal
well now you know what my selling price is
You dont have to get your panties in a bunch because of it
Just sayin

You make me laugh. Bay charges about 12% to sell a cue- so anybody on this site is ahead of the game by at least 8% over e bay EVEN if they accept a Pay Pal payment without charging EXTRA 4% for goods and services. I have sold many, many cues in my lifetime- not here - but I never quibbled over a lousy 4% to make a sale on a cue or case. I no longer buy the argument that a buyer owns the seller's pay pal fees and I never asked anyone here to pay mine when I sold a cue under goods and services.

 

[HawaiianEye]

You make me laugh. Bay charges about 12% to sell a cue- so anybody on this site is ahead of the game by at least 8% over e bay EVEN if they accept a Pay Pal payment without charging EXTRA 4% for goods and services. I have sold many, many cues in my lifetime- not here - but I never quibbled over a lousy 4% to make a sale on a cue or case. I no longer buy the argument that a buyer owns the seller's pay pal fees and I never asked anyone here to pay mine when I sold a cue under goods and services.

Build the fees into your selling price.

 

[Joe_Jaguar]

In today’s market when prices are low a seller understandably may not want to eat the three or 4%

Prices are low? Who you kidding.

 

[Black-Balled]

What I can't figure out, is the logic of fairness when selling/reselling used goods. Someone already paid tax on it when it was first sold, how can there be continual attempted tax collection on it after that? Or "inheritance tax"? I mean whoever worked their lives to get some things to pass on to the kids already paid income tax on the money as well as tax on the items they purchased. Should be illegal to tax anything more than once, or at the very least the tax should be at a much lower rate than new goods never purchased before. Pretty sure our founding fathers had the same ideas about taxes when they dumped some tea at Boston.

You're failing to consider the fact that it's the government's money.
They are getting it back, like it or not.

 

[classiccues]

We all know the pit falls with G/S vs. F/F. I have been telling people since May that the American Rescue Plan Act that was signed was going to add a burden in these types of sales. Some states like NJ, enacted this tax for 2021, without saying a word. So I did not find out about this until very late last year. So I get to get hammered this year, and there are about 8 states that followed suit. This is government overreach and anyone that thought the Covid payments did not have a cost, well now you know. You know which side of the government did this, so no need to go on about it politically. They say this is the way they went after the 1%'ers..

 

[bbb]

You make me laugh. Bay charges about 12% to sell a cue- so anybody on this site is ahead of the game by at least 8% over e bay EVEN if they accept a Pay Pal payment without charging EXTRA 4% for goods and services. I have sold many, many cues in my lifetime- not here - but I never quibbled over a lousy 4% to make a sale on a cue or case. I no longer buy the argument that a buyer owns the seller's pay pal fees and I never asked anyone here to pay mine when I sold a cue under goods and services.

you make ME laugh...
you refuse to pay 4% more for a cue....i get it loud and clear.....its your perogative...
but who do you think you are to tell me or any seller how they want to do business?
as the buyer you either agree to terms/negotiate what you dont like/ or dont buy.
but you dont make the rules on how to sell a cue.
just sayin
jmho

 

[ideologist]

What you list is taken care of with SALT for the most part, not federal taxes. Which is who is putting the squeeze on.

The federal government has so far over reached it's intended purpose that paying ransom to them has now approached immorality. FJB

ok boomer

Go back to the 1950s that you want so badly, with their same tax rates. All of our problems would be solved

 

[bbb]

for the record i would never buy a cue and pay as friends for 2 reasons
1) for whatever protection i get from paying as goods and
2) paypal is in business for profit and needs income to maintain the software /pay their employees etc
i use the services of paypal and believe they should paid for their service

 

[ideologist]

We all know the pit falls with G/S vs. F/F. I have been telling people since May that the American Rescue Plan Act that was signed was going to add a burden in these types of sales. Some states like NJ, enacted this tax for 2021, without saying a word. So I did not find out about this until very late last year. So I get to get hammered this year, and there are about 8 states that followed suit. This is government overreach and anyone that thought the Covid payments did not have a cost, well now you know. You know which side of the government did this, so no need to go on about it politically. They say this is the way they went after the 1%'ers..

The 1% paid for this law to continue dodging taxes

 

[classiccues]

The new line will be Paypal G/S ok if you add 4% for fees, and 20% for taxes.

 

[clydeNbonnie]

What I worry the worst is getting paid good and services. Send the cue off. They get it and claim it didn't arrive asking for their money back. PayPal investigates. Usually PayPal favors the buyer. Happened a couple of times with me. I also own a saddle shop. What happens when they believe the buyer? You're now out.

 

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

The problem is that most pool players don't keep receipts or have accountants. It will be an ugly tax season next year.

Nah. I got hit with an eBay 1099 that I wasn’t expecting last year for some trading cards that sold for a few grand. I didn’t have all of the receipts since you really don’t get a receipt when in person paying cash. I just wrote off 75% of those and provided the receipts I did have. No hassles from IRS on them. What is the IRS going to say? You sold a $3000 cue that has been around that price for 10-20 years and you didn’t pay at least $2500 for it?

Oh and g+S all the way. If the sellers don’t like the fees too bad. A lot of sellers I’ve bought from over paypal have you add the 3.5% in there if paying that way.

 

[classiccues]

Nah. I got hit with an eBay 1099 that I wasn’t expecting last year for some trading cards that sold for a few grand. I didn’t have all of the receipts since you really don’t get a receipt when in person paying cash. I just wrote off 75% of those and provided the receipts I did have. No hassles from IRS on them. What is the IRS going to say? You sold a $3000 cue that has been around that price for 10-20 years and you didn’t pay at least $2500 for it?

Oh and g+S all the way. If the sellers don’t like the fees too bad. A lot of sellers I’ve bought from over paypal have you add the 3.5% in there if paying that way.

As a person that is primarily a seller, its not just the fee. Not all scumbags are sellers. All you need is ONE buyer that says he doesn't like your cue then sends you a cheap Taiwanese cue for your $ 2000.00 dollar custom. To Paypal, its just a cue, and the buyer sent you back something. You are losing that fight 99% of the time because that is how Paypal is set up, and it happens, a lot. The bottom line is trust, and it's hard for a buyer to trust a seller and vice versa because lets face it, pool players ain't angels. So the reality is, how you pay will just determine who needs to trust more, the buyer or the seller.

JV

 

[middleofnowhere]

As a person that is primarily a seller, its not just the fee. Not all scumbags are sellers. All you need is ONE buyer that says he doesn't like your cue then sends you a cheap Taiwanese cue for your $ 2000.00 dollar custom. To Paypal, its just a cue, and the buyer sent you back something. You are losing that fight 99% of the time because that is how Paypal is set up, and it happens, a lot. The bottom line is trust, and it's hard for a buyer to trust a seller and vice versa because lets face it, pool players ain't angels. So the reality is, how you pay will just determine who needs to trust more, the buyer or the seller.

JV

I think in most transactions the party that need the extra layer of protection is the buyer. In fact, that extra layer of protection may be the factor that makes the sale happen.

It is far more likely the buyer will be screwed by a bad seller then the other way around.
As far as discussion about fees, as a buyer I don't want to hear it. It is assumed that when the price was agreed appon, this was figured into the price by the seller.

 

[muskyed]

Bought a cue from DZ a while back. Told him I didn't like pay pal, and asked if I could send a check, and if so he could sit on the cue and not send till he felt comfortable that the check cleared. He didn't have an issue with it, and actually shipped cue to me quicker than I expected. I also have made a few purchases recently from Rick Roper for his extensions with a check. Great person to deal with, shipped way quicker than expected. I wouldn't be nervous buying from, or selling to, long time members of this forum, but new members would be an issue for me, especially now after all the replies on a certain cue for sale recently. As a private person if a deal goes south, I guess you just eat it and move on with life. As a business, if you try and eat too many losses, you are out of business.

 

[GoldCrown]

Build the fees into your selling price.

Bingo. Interesting how me/anyone does not want to pay $5.00 shipping charge on a $65 item but will simply pay $70 w/free shipping and be happy. Build all fees/cost into the price and wait for the correct buyer.

As for PayPal.... I bought a an item that was received in a crushed box. Sent it back. eBay would not stand behind the return. Paypay honored the complaint and reversed the transaction. It's a business and great service. Help them stay in business.