Peace proposal

I know this. Stan explained it on YouTube. He said exactly what you said, that a player would just know. What I am saying is that a play won't just know unless he has the experience of knowing. I mean, you get your perception, then you automatically know it's going to miss the pocket by an inch or two, so therefore you know which way to pivot or sweep. I believe a lot of aspiring players can't just look at the balls and tell if the shot is a little thin or not....that's why they are turning to an aiming system in the first place. You guys assume every player can just see that it's thick or thin, ignoring the fact that you can do it because you have the experience needed to do it.

Except, for the vast majority of shots, it is not just an inch or two. It will be obvious to anyone that has played a little.

As far as rank beginners, they shouldn't be messing with any aiming system until they learn how to stroke the cue fairly straight anyways. No aiming system is going fix a poor cue delivery, but most will showcase a poor cue delivery.

And, any system that puts one of the correct shot line will be doomed to failure by a stroke that can't deliver the cue down that line.
 
Except, for the vast majority of shots, it is not just an inch or two. It will be obvious to anyone that has played a little.

As far as rank beginners, they shouldn't be messing with any aiming system until they learn how to stroke the cue fairly straight anyways. No aiming system is going fix a poor cue delivery, but most will showcase a poor cue delivery.

And, any system that puts one of the correct shot line will be doomed to failure by a stroke that can't deliver the cue down that line.

I agree with Neil, after lots of experimentation I have figured out that stroke, stance, and bridge have a lot more to do with making a successful shot. Aiming is not my main issue, fundamentals are.

As far as "Peace" goes... I just found the ignore user button.....
 
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We always had a table in the house when I was young, so I honestly don't know. I'd say when I started playing for real as I got a little older it would be ghost ball, although I don't recall ever actually trying to visualize a ghost ball. I was also aware of the contact point, and just knew that I had to cut the shot a little thinner in order to hit that spot.

Finally, some semblance of being real.

I took some lessons from a guy at a local pool hall. He was also way into Zen.

Duckie's father or uncle?

He would set up an ob and a cb about 5' away from each other at an angle and recommended just to shoot the shot over and over until you dialed it in.

The old HAMB Rote method. Brilliant.

That information would be entered into your subconscious databank. He didn't care how you did it as long as the ball went in.

Good thing other sports aren't taught that way. "Learn yourself kid, dig it outta the ground like I did. I ain't got no more to teach you. Hey, you wanna learn the diamond system next? Put da cueball on da table any place you want. Hit one of da diamonds hard. Watch carefully where da cueball goes next, and next, and next until it comes to a stop.

Next step do the same with all of da diamonds on da table and you'll memorize it in no time flat. But while the CB is rolling around da table, always chant - Ohmmmmm, Ohmmmmm, Ohmmmmm. You'll remember better."


I agree with that thinking other than to say that it matters how you stroke the cue. If it isn't a straight stroke then you can be ingraining flaws that bite you when you least expect it.

Have you considered writing a "Stroke" book or putting out a "Stroke" Dvd with all of your experiments and findings?

But, I as well as many others have said this many times yet you ignore it like you don't get it.

In all of your pomposity and self image of grandeur, what makes you think I have no idea how to pocket balls just by seeing the pocket, position of the balls on the table, and stepping up with no thought whatsoever and firing them in with an extremely high percentage of success? I played that way for many years of my life.

You don't realize that you couldn't pocket more than maybe 25% of the shots you take if your brain didn't do the same thing for you and your shooting system as it does for me. Hate to burst your bubble, but there is no such thing as objective aiming. You can have objective aiming and pocket 25 or 35% of your shots, or you can use that same system in conjunction with your subconscious databank of visual images and pocket 100% of the balls. There is more going on than you care to admit. IMO

In all of your pomposity and self image of grandeur, what makes you think I have no idea how to pocket balls just by seeing the pocket, position of the balls on the table, and stepping up with no thought whatsoever and firing them in with an extremely high percentage of success? You think I don't know what you, Lou, and Brian are talking about or doing? I played that way for many years of my life.

What you don't know is what I now know and it pleases me to no end that YOU DON'T GET IT and fight every day to belittle it.

You see, I have a choice of how I can play and what gives me the better and more effective way of playing and I damn well will. If I thought it was a waste of my time making me play worse, I'd go back to doing what I did and what you do.

You can play the way you feel is the best for you and be happy. Keep hitting the next million balls and working on your wonky stroke until you achieve perfection, Mr. Stroke.
 
Sorry that you feel this way, never called you any names, just said I do not understand. I received more that 29 PM's most said they did not post here because they did not want to get bashed by you and a few others. I have never called names, I have personally never said your system done work, and I believe it does work for some people.

The ones that said it did not work for them were the people that private messaged me.


I used to get lots of PMs and rep over this stuff too until folks lost interest and the whole discussion was moved into the AZ attic, so I can see how you'd easily get some traffic on this topic.

Lou Figueroa
 
I agree with Neil, after lots of experimentation I have figured out that stroke, stance, and bridge have a lot more to do with making a successful shot. Aiming is not my main issue, fundamentals are.

As far as "Peace" goes... I just found the ignore user button.....


Same here (on both counts, lol). Once you get the mechanics right, aiming is an afterthought.

Lou Figueroa
 
I used to get lots of PMs and rep over this stuff too until folks lost interest and the whole discussion was moved into the AZ attic, so I can see how you'd easily get some traffic on this topic.

Lou Figueroa

Some traffic is believable but 29 plus PMs for his moral support is nothing more than a TEXAS WHOPPER. I bet the guy has put 3 cue balls in his mouth before and has run 13 racks of 9-ball.

Stan Shuffett
 
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Same here (on both counts, lol). Once you get the mechanics right, aiming is an afterthought.

Lou Figueroa

Says amateur Lou. On the flip side you have a good number of pro players who do have the mechanics right which is why they're pros but they also use an AIMING SYSTEM. They can be found on youtube or articles talking about it any time you wish to use Google.

There were pros who used to post on AZ talking about how they aimed or had it on Dvd. They got chased away by know it all amateurs never to come back again like this place was a carrier of Ebola virus.

For them it isn't an afterthought, it's a forethought before they put the mechanics to use stroking the ball.

Who should people listen to, a life long amateur or successful name pro players?

Go to a pro instructor or a pro player who gives lessons and has video or written training material if you want to learn to play better.

Your choice. Don't be cheap either. Invest in yourself, your game. It pays big dividends.
 
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Says amateur Lou. On the flip side you have a good number of pro players who do have the mechanics right which is why they're pros but they also use an AIMING SYSTEM. They can be found on youtube or articles talking about it any time you wish to use Google.

There were pros who used to post on AZ talking about how they aimed or had it on Dvd. They got chased away by know it all amateurs never to come back again like this place was a carrier of Ebola virus.

For them it isn't an afterthought, it's a forethought before they put the mechanics to use stroking the ball.

Who should people listen to, a life long amateur or successful name pro players?

Go to a pro instructor or a pro player who gives lessons and has video or written training material if you want to learn to play better.

Your choice. Don't be cheap either. Invest in yourself, your game. It pays big dividends.

I know I would travel a 200 miles or so to find someone that is a CTE proponent and can make it work for them. Who can show the perception lines, the left sweep, the right sweep, etc. etc. Lou, Brian, Dan, have you ever run into someone that can demonstrate CTE?
 
I know I would travel a 200 miles or so to find someone that is a CTE proponent and can make it work for them. Who can show the perception lines, the left sweep, the right sweep,


You aren't broke. I could be wrong but you probably have more than sufficient disposable income to take a flight to the Lexington, KY area to see the main man himself to take FIRST HAND LESSONS.

You owe yourself a small vacation and great learning experience. Your wife will probably be happy to get rid of you for a few days. (all wives are)
 
You aren't broke. I could be wrong but you probably have more than sufficient disposable income to take a flight to the Lexington, KY area to see the main man himself to take FIRST HAND LESSONS.

You owe yourself a small vacation and great learning experience. Your wife will probably be happy to get rid of you for a few days. (all wives are)

Stan is not teaching now (book work) and he thinks I'm his worst enemy, so that is out. Isn't there someone in all states that can cover and show the benefits of CTE like you can do? You could convince anyone to learn it. Who do you know that has become convinced they must learn the system? I know the pool instructor RandyG in Texas teaches it. How about Oregon and Washington?
 
Stan is not teaching now (book work) and he thinks I'm his worst enemy, so that is out. Isn't there someone in all states that can cover and show the benefits of CTE like you can do? You could convince anyone to learn it. Who do you know that has become convinced they must learn the system? I know the pool instructor RandyG in Texas teaches it. How about Oregon and Washington?

It's water under the bridge. You're welcome to visit my facility. You would experience some southern hospitality. I'm still a few months out but I'd be delighted to put you on my list.

RandyG does not teach the CTE content that I do. Tyler Styer of WI is the closest CTE PRO ONE endorsed instructor to your location.

Stan Shuffett
 
I know I would travel a 200 miles or so to find someone that is a CTE proponent and can make it work for them. Who can show the perception lines, the left sweep, the right sweep, etc. etc. Lou, Brian, Dan, have you ever run into someone that can demonstrate CTE?


Other than JB I haven't run into anyone in my travels that is a CTE practitioner.

Here in STL, there was one guy that tried to learn it after the first DVD came out and spent a few weeks with it and finally gave up. Funny thing was he said it took him "a couple of weeks to get un-CTE'd" so he could shoot normally.

Lou Figueroa
 
Other than JB I haven't run into anyone in my travels that is a CTE practitioner.

Here in STL, there was one guy that tried to learn it after the first DVD came out and spent a few weeks with it and finally gave up. Funny thing was he said it took him "a couple of weeks to get un-CTE'd" so he could shoot normally.

Lou Figueroa

I'm on record right here on AZ offering Lou free instruction at my facility. Lou declined.

Stan Shuffett
 
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It's water under the bridge. You're welcome to visit my facility. You would experience some southern hospitality. I'm still a few months out but I'd be delighted to put you on my list.

RandyG does not teach the CTE content that I do. Tyler Styer of WI is the closest CTE PRO ONE endorsed instructor to your location.

Stan Shuffett

Thanks for that. I would love to see it work by someone that can really do it.
 
I'm on record right here on AZ offering Lou free instruction at my facility. Lou declined.

Stan Shuffett


uh, that proffer was made three years ago via your surrogate, JB. Give me second... OK, here it is:

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As to the CTE stuff, right after the match John said he hopes we can bury the hatchet and asked if I’d be willing to meet with Stan at his house in Kentucky to learn more about CTE, Pro One, and how they really work. And I said, “No, I’m not. I have no interest in doing that.” And then he suggested meeting Stan somewhere halfway. And I again responded, “No.” John asked me why and I replied, “John, you can call it being closed minded if you want but I would no sooner go out to meet Stan to learn about CTE than I’d go out to meet a guy who wanted to tell me about the last time he saw Big Foot.” So without a doubt, that argument will go on into perpetuity.
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BTW, I have paid for lessons on occasion, from:
Steve "Cookie Monster" Cook
Dallas West
Ray Martin

Of the three, none had any aiming system, though Ray Martin did say this:
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I asked him about he aimed “Just see the shot,” he said. “No ghost ball, no contact points, no tracks, aiming systems, no edges?!” I asked. “No. All that aiming system stuff -- people want a magic pill. They don’t want to work. Those are all gimmicks, something to sell,” Ray told me.
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Only one, Dallas West, tinkered with my mechanics, but that was a very minor tweak to one particular kind of shot.

Lou Figueroa
 
Thanks for that. I would love to see it work by someone that can really do it.

I'm no spring chicken but for me, experiencing CTE is better late than never. CTE truly is phenomenal and nothing less than an outlier. As much as I love the game of pool, I am very glad that I didn't pass through my life without experiencing it. But if I'd missed it, then again, you don't know what you don't know.

Stan Shuffett
 
uh, that proffer was made three years ago via your surrogate, JB. Give me second... OK, here it is:

#####
As to the CTE stuff, right after the match John said he hopes we can bury the hatchet and asked if I’d be willing to meet with Stan at his house in Kentucky to learn more about CTE, Pro One, and how they really work. And I said, “No, I’m not. I have no interest in doing that.” And then he suggested meeting Stan somewhere halfway. And I again responded, “No.” John asked me why and I replied, “John, you can call it being closed minded if you want but I would no sooner go out to meet Stan to learn about CTE than I’d go out to meet a guy who wanted to tell me about the last time he saw Big Foot.” So without a doubt, that argument will go on into perpetuity.
#####

BTW, I have paid for lessons on occasion, from:
Steve "Cookie Monster" Cook
Dallas West
Ray Martin

Of the three, none had any aiming system, though Ray Martin did say this:
#####
I asked him about he aimed “Just see the shot,” he said. “No ghost ball, no contact points, no tracks, aiming systems, no edges?!” I asked. “No. All that aiming system stuff -- people want a magic pill. They don’t want to work. Those are all gimmicks, something to sell,” Ray told me.
#####

Only one, Dallas West, tinkered with my mechanics, but that was a very minor tweak to one particular kind of shot.

Lou Figueroa

Yes, sad to say, that has been my experience also. I should have kept quiet about it all and wish I had. Stan and the guys that KNOW it are so convinced that it is the one and true aiming system. I can afford to go someplace to see it in action, and maybe I will. I have about 8-10 hours a day on my own table to work on it. Wouldn't it be nice to completely learn and have CTE and my normal aiming and choose between the two? I think so.
 
In all of your pomposity and self image of grandeur, what makes you think I have no idea how to pocket balls just by seeing the pocket, position of the balls on the table, and stepping up with no thought whatsoever and firing them in with an extremely high percentage of success? You think I don't know what you, Lou, and Brian are talking about or doing? I played that way for many years of my life.

And you still do, you just don't realize it. You can do any kind of PSR fandance you want to get on the shot line, but IMO you are relying on HAMB to pocket balls. That's all I have to say about it because it is senseless to argue the point. I brought it up because it was in the context of our current discussion. Beyond that, Stan will either illustrate how it is done in his new book or he won't.
 
And you still do, you just don't realize it. You can do any kind of PSR fandance you want to get on the shot line, but IMO you are relying on HAMB to pocket balls. That's all I have to say about it because it is senseless to argue the point. I brought it up because it was in the context of our current discussion. Beyond that, Stan will either illustrate how it is done in his new book or he won't.

CTE is 3-D visual. No illustration as of yet can perfectly show it. Fortunately, words can explain it and it can be demonstrated and I will do that online.

Stan Shuffett
 
And you still do, you just don't realize it.

Right! Dan White in all of his infinite wisdom is going to tell me what I do and what I don't do. Are you nuts?! (no need to answer because I already know)

I see the shots entirely differently now than I did years ago! I don't see what I used to see or what you see. It was tough retraining my eyes and brain at first and for a while to forget years of what I was doing.

Why didn't I drop it and do what I always did? Seriously, I played real sporty just seeing the shots. But I missed too often when playing long sessions that were costly.
This came along at the right time and it worked great. Again, it took a while but I would never go back to shooting from the hip and not using the sights on my gun.


You can do any kind of PSR fandance you want to get on the shot line, but IMO you are relying on HAMB to pocket balls.

HAMB has solidified my stroke, that's for sure. But I rely on what my eyes are telling me more now than before when I HAMB and only relied on a more general view as opposed to sharp focus. It only lasts for 1 to 2 seconds but that time means everything when used more efficiently.


That's all I have to say about it because it is senseless to argue the point.

It will never be all you have to say about it. You'll go forever.

I brought it up because it was in the context of our current discussion. Beyond that, Stan will either illustrate how it is done in his new book or he won't.

Oh he WILL. But you'll dig hard and deep to find some little nitpicky worthless word or two that won't be to your satisfaction to latch on for another 20 years. Guaranteed!
 
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