People wonder why there is no money in pool

yes no one would ever doing anything like bet on golf. and i'm sure that no golfer has ever cheated either. come on man, there are plenty of honest players who call fouls on themselves. in the golf world for i'm sure for every greg norman there is another player who would have had no trouble keeping their mouth shut about an "experimental ball". the reason there is no money in pool is quite simply its a horrible sport to spectate, even for pple who love it. thats it right there. no audience=no potential consumers=no sponsors=no money. there thats the secret formula. find a way to make pool enjoyable to spectate to a wide demographic and there will be money.

brian
If pool is such a horrible sport to spectate why is it so popular in Asia and Europe and why is snooker so very well covered...and spectated in Europe?
Ever watch a snooker match on YouTube? They have large, well-behaved audiences that seem genuinely appreciate everything they're watching.
 
Well with the allegations going on of cheating at the UPL tournament once again pool players have shown why there in no money in the sport. Between this, Earl Strickland on T.V. saying if the ref don't see it is not a foul, the IPT bank the 8 ball and get a $ 500 bonus and guys setting each other up for banks the pool players have shown us why no major sponsors will ever line up to sponsor pool. Golf is a gentleman game and they call fouls on themselves( Greg Norman was once sitting in his hotel room after leading the 3rd round of a tournament when he realized he had played an experimental ball that was not yet cleared for PGA play. He could of easily switched balls for the 4th round and nobody would of known a thing instead he disqualified himself out of the tournament).. Now this is where someone writes in and says yeah but look at what golfers make it is easy for them to DQ themselves. Golf wasn't always a rewarding sport but throughout history golf has been a gentlemans game and because of that sponsors were drawn to that and because of that the golfers are reaping the rewards. It is particulary bad when the big names of pool are involved in some of the shenanigans. Can anybody picture Phil Mickelson saying the ref didnt see it it is not a foul.
I agree with this statement partially.
We have read countless threads about this, flamed and debated each other ad nauseum to no end, so I can't really offer anything new except to say this:

The cheating and bad behavior are not the reasons why.
How many criminals currently play (and are embraced by the public) in the major sports like baseball, basketball, football, hockey?

It has to do with what people want to watch, and they are willing to turn a blind eye in favor of worshipping their favorite players and teams.

But pool is not helping itself by having the antics you describe.
We must be squeaky clean like the WPBA in order to be accepted and marketed to the mainstream.

Just two days ago I was in a staff meeting and somebody asked me if I was going to any more big tournaments (he knew I just went to the US Open). I told him I was considering DCC. Then he mentioned he sees pool on TV all the time with "that Asian chick" who seems to "play the part to market herself by dressing sexy". Then some others in the meeting exclaimed, "Yeah, I've seen her too! Her name is Jean or something?"

Keep in mind that these people know NOTHING about pool, but they have an idea of who Jeannette is, and they saw her on ESPN.

When I think of the greatness I have witnessed at the US Open etc. with the male pros it really chaps my butt...but again, it is the fault of the pros for not being, or trying to be more marketable.

Old argument, I know...but just last night I got excited because ESPN had a US Open championship being televised. Tony Robles was playing Rafael Martinez. The audio was poor, and although Danny D. is highly knowledgeable, he is NOT made for TV.
Translation: mainstream viewing audiences, or channel surfers, would want nothing to do with this broadcast.

Anyway, like I said, many on here and out there have lofty ideas for improving the overall image of pool, but few make that first step.

Just the other day I was at Q-Masters in Chesapeake during the US Open, and Chohan was playing Shuff one-pocket. Someone from my town was also there, and he said to me out of the blue, "I am glad Chohan is here and he got away."

I said, "What do you mean, 'got away'?
He said, "You know what I mean, that he is out and not in jail."
I took it to mean that he was glad Chohan "beat the rap", "beat the system", or whatever.
He clearly was willing to embrace Chohan either because he is a great player, or because he seemed to have "beaten a drug rap", which we all now know is not the case, but back then he was clearly "out" wearing an ankle bracelet.

My point is, this is an example of a fan embracing someone who clearly would have tarnished the sport's image and furthered the stigma of pool players were we really in the mainstream.

AZ'ers, take note...I am not criticising or attacking Tony in any way, just making a point, so all you staunch Chohan-lovers...back off!

So that's partially my take...the behavior is not the sole reason, but it certainly does not help.
 
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and just to be clear, there is some money in pool. i believe mika scored about $100,000 btwn the qatar open, us open, and challenge of champions wins. not bad for a less that 6 month span. its way more than i make. but of course not as many are able to make a living at pro pool as other sports. however pools "stygma" hasnt prevented there being some money for those skilled enough to take it.

brian

If you had that kind of year in golf, you could retire... Take out living money, car, house, kids, wife and maybe no chance of winning that much next year, its peanuts.

If he pays 25% tax, that leaves him $36 per hour for a 40 hour week. He is putting up 2 to 3 weeks wages to win 10 weeks at most event.


The way I see it, pool players are paying for glory/fame.
 
If pool is such a horrible sport to spectate why is it so popular in Asia and Europe and why is snooker so very well covered...and spectated in Europe?
Ever watch a snooker match on YouTube? They have large, well-behaved audiences that seem genuinely appreciate everything they're watching.

dont confuse what other countries find enjoyable. do you see large crowds at tourneys in the usa? do they fill up arenas? mostly spectators at a tourney are friends, family, other players or folks sweating the action. mostly only players watch events on tv and some pretty devout players cant stand watching espn televised events. without regard for what is popular in other countries, watching pool is not america's cup of tea.

brian
 
some history: late 1800's early 1900's pool was a major sport in this country packing people into expensive venues and attended by street ppl to magnates willing to pay a $100 just to watch notables like greenleaf, caras, mosconi, cochran, hoppe, alfredo de oro,etc etc champions of old times. after WW2 the whole sport dwindled into obscurity settling in pool halls and bars, gambling and brawling, cheating and hustling, flash and cash. the gentlemanly lifestyle somehow faded away.

today, we lack identity, consolidarity/solidarity, and configuration. let me explain a little. our identity is lost in chasing the identity of a different sport. our announcers act like they are speaking about a putt shot on the 18th fairway, and we as an audience are left in the dark about what is actually occuring at the table. why golf (or tennis for that matter) should ever be used as a yardstick to measure the athleticism or artistry of pool is beyond me. pool is extremely athletic mentally and physically, and artistically puts either golf or tennis to shame. our announcers would have us think just the reverse. that somehow we have to be like golfers and tennis players to succeed. BS. pool needs some voices that invigorate the audience, teach the audience, and attract viewers who want to see action at the table. (earl for all his faults brought fire to the game) i'm not saying we need rudeness and yelling but we need fire on the tables an in the voices of our annoucers.
next comes consolidarity: we have so many titles its akin to the boxing and wrestling world federations. no one agrees who is the champion b/c there are so many champions chasing so many titles or belts. in the early days pre WW2 there was one title, one master who held it all, and one champion to reckon with. how many champions are there in the golf world or the tennis world. they have a few different arenas to play in yes, but they are defined by the PGA masters and the Wimbledom, or the NFL, who is the champion team after all the dust has settled at the Superbowl. so we lack a consolidated title bound by an ethical set of standards and rules subscribed to by the set of players we think of as worthy champion level players. and in that mix we through in three or four different games to be champion of. how can the US audience of TV land get a handle on any of that when there is no standard for them to gauge by. solidarity and consolidarity are missing. big sponsors dont know who to throw their money at to get the best return. we have to help them in that part of their decision making.

lastly: configuration. this is new times, it requires new thought but not abandon what makes the game great. for instance all the rule changes are diluting the understanding of what pool is about. did anyone change the rules of straight pool b/c willie mosconi ran 526 balls in a few hours. wow. do i want to watch one person shoot that long. damn right. it becomes an amazing feat. a record to chase, a symbol of excellence. do i want to watch a nine ball player go 11 and out for the championship. damn right. ali knocked out some of his opponents in the first round before they hardly had time to get off their stool. should the rules of boxing have changed to go at least one round. so why do we think making pockets tighter, altering break formats, or controlling some other aspect of the game to weaken the strong player is going to make for better TV or attract moneybags sponsors.

all in all the game as a professional sport lacks credence b/c we have no one person, no specific group, no finalizing committe; no standardized rules which define the champion, the game, the venue, the action, or the character and heart that makes up pool. you real pool players will know what i'm saying although you may not agree with everything you know that ive hit many of the weaknesses which if overcome would elevate this game into the olympics and into the homes of greater american TV viewers.
 
some history: late 1800's early 1900's pool was a major sport in this country packing people into expensive venues and attended by street ppl to magnates willing to pay a $100 just to watch notables like greenleaf, caras, mosconi, cochran, hoppe, alfredo de oro,etc etc champions of old times. after WW2 the whole sport dwindled into obscurity settling in pool halls and bars, gambling and brawling, cheating and hustling, flash and cash. the gentlemanly lifestyle somehow faded away.

today, we lack identity, consolidarity/solidarity, and configuration. let me explain a little. our identity is lost in chasing the identity of a different sport. our announcers act like they are speaking about a putt shot on the 18th fairway, and we as an audience are left in the dark about what is actually occuring at the table. why golf (or tennis for that matter) should ever be used as a yardstick to measure the athleticism or artistry of pool is beyond me. pool is extremely athletic mentally and physically, and artistically puts either golf or tennis to shame. our announcers would have us think just the reverse. that somehow we have to be like golfers and tennis players to succeed. BS. pool needs some voices that invigorate the audience, teach the audience, and attract viewers who want to see action at the table. (earl for all his faults brought fire to the game) i'm not saying we need rudeness and yelling but we need fire on the tables an in the voices of our annoucers.
next comes consolidarity: we have so many titles its akin to the boxing and wrestling world federations. no one agrees who is the champion b/c there are so many champions chasing so many titles or belts. in the early days pre WW2 there was one title, one master who held it all, and one champion to reckon with. how many champions are there in the golf world or the tennis world. they have a few different arenas to play in yes, but they are defined by the PGA masters and the Wimbledom, or the NFL, who is the champion team after all the dust has settled at the Superbowl. so we lack a consolidated title bound by an ethical set of standards and rules subscribed to by the set of players we think of as worthy champion level players. and in that mix we through in three or four different games to be champion of. how can the US audience of TV land get a handle on any of that when there is no standard for them to gauge by. solidarity and consolidarity are missing. big sponsors dont know who to throw their money at to get the best return. we have to help them in that part of their decision making.

lastly: configuration. this is new times, it requires new thought but not abandon what makes the game great. for instance all the rule changes are diluting the understanding of what pool is about. did anyone change the rules of straight pool b/c willie mosconi ran 526 balls in a few hours. wow. do i want to watch one person shoot that long. damn right. it becomes an amazing feat. a record to chase, a symbol of excellence. do i want to watch a nine ball player go 11 and out for the championship. damn right. ali knocked out some of his opponents in the first round before they hardly had time to get off their stool. should the rules of boxing have changed to go at least one round. so why do we think making pockets tighter, altering break formats, or controlling some other aspect of the game to weaken the strong player is going to make for better TV or attract moneybags sponsors.

all in all the game as a professional sport lacks credence b/c we have no one person, no specific group, no finalizing committe; no standardized rules which define the champion, the game, the venue, the action, or the character and heart that makes up pool. you real pool players will know what i'm saying although you may not agree with everything you know that ive hit many of the weaknesses which if overcome would elevate this game into the olympics and into the homes of greater american TV viewers.
 
some history: late 1800's early 1900's pool was a major sport in this country packing people into expensive venues and attended by street ppl to magnates willing to pay a $100 just to watch notables like greenleaf, caras, mosconi, cochran, hoppe, alfredo de oro,etc etc champions of old times. after WW2 the whole sport dwindled into obscurity settling in pool halls and bars, gambling and brawling, cheating and hustling, flash and cash. the gentlemanly lifestyle somehow faded away.

today, we lack identity, consolidarity/solidarity, and configuration. let me explain a little. our identity is lost in chasing the identity of a different sport. our announcers act like they are speaking about a putt shot on the 18th fairway, and we as an audience are left in the dark about what is actually occuring at the table. why golf (or tennis for that matter) should ever be used as a yardstick to measure the athleticism or artistry of pool is beyond me. pool is extremely athletic mentally and physically, and artistically puts either golf or tennis to shame. our announcers would have us think just the reverse. that somehow we have to be like golfers and tennis players to succeed. BS. pool needs some voices that invigorate the audience, teach the audience, and attract viewers who want to see action at the table. (earl for all his faults brought fire to the game) i'm not saying we need rudeness and yelling but we need fire on the tables an in the voices of our annoucers.
next comes consolidarity: we have so many titles its akin to the boxing and wrestling world federations. no one agrees who is the champion b/c there are so many champions chasing so many titles or belts. in the early days pre WW2 there was one title, one master who held it all, and one champion to reckon with. how many champions are there in the golf world or the tennis world. they have a few different arenas to play in yes, but they are defined by the PGA masters and the Wimbledom, or the NFL, who is the champion team after all the dust has settled at the Superbowl. so we lack a consolidated title bound by an ethical set of standards and rules subscribed to by the set of players we think of as worthy champion level players. and in that mix we through in three or four different games to be champion of. how can the US audience of TV land get a handle on any of that when there is no standard for them to gauge by. solidarity and consolidarity are missing. big sponsors dont know who to throw their money at to get the best return. we have to help them in that part of their decision making.

lastly: configuration. this is new times, it requires new thought but not abandon what makes the game great. for instance all the rule changes are diluting the understanding of what pool is about. did anyone change the rules of straight pool b/c willie mosconi ran 526 balls in a few hours. wow. do i want to watch one person shoot that long. damn right. it becomes an amazing feat. a record to chase, a symbol of excellence. do i want to watch a nine ball player go 11 and out for the championship. damn right. ali knocked out some of his opponents in the first round before they hardly had time to get off their stool. should the rules of boxing have changed to go at least one round. so why do we think making pockets tighter, altering break formats, or controlling some other aspect of the game to weaken the strong player is going to make for better TV or attract moneybags sponsors.

all in all the game as a professional sport lacks credence b/c we have no one person, no specific group, no finalizing committe; no standardized rules which define the champion, the game, the venue, the action, or the character and heart that makes up pool. you real pool players will know what i'm saying although you may not agree with everything you know that ive hit many of the weaknesses which if overcome would elevate this game into the olympics and into the homes of greater american TV viewers.
 
I think to say that people like watching golf more than pool is a little unfair. Golf is on TV a lot, pool isn't. Why isn't it? I think a big part of it is the prize pools that appear to have not changed much since I got out of the game in the early 90's. I mean $40k top prize for the US open? That is literally what I watched Mike Siegel win back in '90.

Golf = $1 million+ first prize US Open = excitement = TV = Fans
Poker = $ Hundreds of k's to several mil first prize = excitment = TV = Fans

You don't need to have a squeaky clean image. Poker had a worse image than pool imho, and you have people like "The Badboy" Hellmuth and "The Mouth" Matusow who actually have marketed an image based on poor behavior at and away from the table.

People like to watch other people compete for large amounts of money. It is that simple. When you know that a milliion dollars in at stake and this guy has to sink a 50' putt to get it, or avoid getting sucked out on in what could be the last hand....it's exciting.

$40k? It's a joke. Notice we don't have new game shows like 'Who wants to be a 40k'er', or '$40k Deal or no deal' and there is a reason for that. No one would care, it would generate no interest. No interest = no viewers = no sponsors = no TV. Jack those up to 1 mil and hey, we have two of the hottest new game shows to come out in the last few years.
 
all in all the game as a professional sport lacks credence b/c we have no one person, no specific group, no finalizing committe; no standardized rules which define the champion, the game, the venue, the action, or the character and heart that makes up pool.


amen!!!!!!!
 
You missed 3 critical pieces of info:
1. 50 guys going 200/mph, 3" from each other
2. Making a critical mistake can me your life and the others
3. 50 rolling billboards displayed for 4 hours on nationwide tv

Most sports before you achieve critical mass produce zero money. Once they achieve a level that the top 200 in the world can make a good living things take on a life of their own. In Canada (where I'm from) Professional Curlers can make a decent buck.


do you know what the number #1 sport in the world is as far as merchandise sold and endorser money? Nascar.. that is a real exciting sport buddy.. 50 guys driving around in a circle.
 
I agree with this statement partially.
We have read countless threads about this, flamed and debated each other ad nauseum to no end, so I can't really offer anything new except to say this:

The cheating and bad behavior are not the reasons why.
How many criminals currently play (and are embraced by the public) in the major sports like baseball, basketball, football, hockey?

It has to do with what people want to watch, and they are willing to turn a blind eye in favor of worshipping their favorite players and teams.
...................................... "
Just two days ago I was in a staff meeting and somebody asked me if I was going to any more big tournaments (he knew I just went to the US Open). I told him I was considering DCC. Then he mentioned he sees pool on TV all the time with "that Asian chick" who seems to "play the part to market herself by dressing sexy". Then some others in the meeting exclaimed, "Yeah, I've seen her too! Her name is Jean or something?"

Keep in mind that these people know NOTHING about pool, but they have an idea of who Jeannette is, and they saw her on ESPN.

When I think of the greatness I have witnessed at the US Open etc. with the male pros it really chaps my butt...but again, it is the fault of the pros for not being, or trying to be more marketable.

Old argument, I know...but just last night I got excited because ESPN had a US Open championship being televised. Tony Robles was playing Rafael Martinez. The audio was poor, and although Danny D. is highly knowledgeable, he is NOT made for TV.
Translation: mainstream viewing audiences, or channel surfers, would want nothing to do with this broadcast.
...................... "

Just the other day I was at Q-Masters in Chesapeake during the US Open, and Chohan was playing Shuff one-pocket. Someone from my town was also there, and he said to me out of the blue, "I am glad Chohan is here and he got away."

I said, "What do you mean, 'got away'?
He said, "You know what I mean, that he is out and not in jail."
I took it to mean that he was glad Chohan "beat the rap", "beat the system", or whatever.
He clearly was willing to embrace Chohan either because he is a great player, or because he seemed to have "beaten a drug rap", which we all now know is not the case, but back then he was clearly "out" wearing an ankle bracelet.

My point is, this is an example of a fan embracing someone who clearly would have tarnished the sport's image and furthered the stigma of pool players were we really in the mainstream.

AZ'ers, take note...I am not criticising or attacking Tony in any way, just making a point, so all you staunch Chohan-lovers...back off!

So that's partially my take...the behavior is not the sole reason, but it certainly does not help.


Very well said iNside English.


Pool just does not appeal to the US public period. People don't gather around the television in groups on Sundays, buy beer and pizza to watch pre recorded, trickshot magic, womens (slow and clap after every shot) pool or no name mens pool players on espn. Their is no fantasy pool league. Parents dont' send their kids to little league pocket billiards. Colleges don't offer pool scholorships. Pool has and never will have any tv appeal period. Pool has no marketing appeal either. No jerseys to sell, hats, t-shirts, shoes, or styles of its own. Big corporations have nothing to gain from pool which really has noting to offer its customers other than pool tables and pool cues.

If it did it would have already.
 
Very well said iNside English.


Pool just does not appeal to the US public period. People don't gather around the television in groups on Sundays, buy beer and pizza to watch pre recorded, trickshot magic, womens (slow and clap after every shot) pool or no name mens pool players on espn. Their is no fantasy pool league. Parents dont' send their kids to little league pocket billiards. Colleges don't offer pool scholorships. Pool has and never will have any tv appeal period. Pool has no marketing appeal either. No jerseys to sell, hats, t-shirts, shoes, or styles of its own. Big corporations have nothing to gain from pool which really has noting to offer its customers other than pool tables and pool cues.

If it did it would have already.

thats because no one but a few of us is really pushing to get kids involved in the game....thats the key, its the friggin key to every other major sport in the WHOLE WORLD for pete sake! Become a certified instructor and go teach kids at the boys and girls club, start afterschool programs and just watch what happens. To hell with what mom and dad want to do, little Johnny wants to watch pool, so mom and dad are too!

Catch my drift?
Grey Ghost
 
Very well said iNside English.


Pool just does not appeal to the US public period. People don't gather around the television in groups on Sundays, buy beer and pizza to watch pre recorded, trickshot magic, womens (slow and clap after every shot) pool or no name mens pool players on espn. Their is no fantasy pool league. Parents dont' send their kids to little league pocket billiards. Colleges don't offer pool scholorships. Pool has and never will have any tv appeal period. Pool has no marketing appeal either. No jerseys to sell, hats, t-shirts, shoes, or styles of its own. Big corporations have nothing to gain from pool which really has noting to offer its customers other than pool tables and pool cues.

If it did it would have already.

Or it hasn't been done yet. Golf has rules like dress code and the events are shown live with frequent commercial breaks. How many people logged on to watch streaming us open? How many watch TAR? Why would sponsers want to pay for events that are recorded and shown a year latter! What pool needs is live event coverage, dress code and personal conduct rules on and off the table. Then I think you would see a change in sponsers and more money for the very deserving pros.
 
We can talk about this issue for ever and it will get us no where. I guess
it is what it is, an enigma. Golf and bowling are pretty boring to watch but
millions are watching, don't know how that works. You have a live free
stream of a major pool tournament and there is only 300+ viewers but
there is over 6 billion people on earth. How sad ? I hope it will change but
I seriously doubt it:(
 
do you know what the number #1 sport in the world is as far as merchandise sold and endorser money? Nascar.. that is a real exciting sport buddy.. 50 guys driving around in a circle.

Um...there are only 43 drivers in a Nascar race :grin-square:

Someday we should take a road trip to Bristol...Im sure by the week's end, you'd have a new found interest.

Voo~~~laughin' knowin' he aint going outside unless they have pool tables under air conditioned tents
 
We can talk about this issue for ever and it will get us no where. I guess
it is what it is, an enigma. Golf and bowling are pretty boring to watch but
millions are watching, don't know how that works. You have a live free
stream of a major pool tournament and there is only 300+ viewers but
there is over 6 billion people on earth. How sad ? I hope it will change but
I seriously doubt it:(
I think we should all work to convince Bill Gates that pool is the greatest thing on earth...:)

Welcome to the Microsoft US Open 9-Ball Championships!
1st. Prize = $1,000,000!
 
Um...there are only 43 drivers in a Nascar race :grin-square:

Someday we should take a road trip to Bristol...Im sure by the week's end, you'd have a new found interest.

Voo~~~laughin' knowin' he aint going outside unless they have pool tables under air conditioned tents
Speaking of Nascar, if there were no accidents involved there would be much less
people watching this sport. That's just my opinion.
 
Speaking of Nascar, if there were no accidents involved there would be much less
people watching this sport. That's just my opinion.

I can honestly say an accident or two probably does make the race more exciting for the not-so involved race fan. People love tragedy, violence and chaos in general. If they say they dont, why would they watch UFC/Boxing/Football etc...right? I watch short track racing only like Loudon, Bristol and Dover...no restrictor plates and a limited race footprint. The grind alone is compelling enough for me and its the way I like to watch racing.

Voo~~~didnt mean to hijack Hurt's thread, Ill stand down now
 
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