Perfect Stroke = No Stroke?

[Patrick Johnson]

What if we could just aim our cue like a rifle with the tip at the contact point and instead of stroking it simply pull a trigger to shoot it at any preset CB speed? Would taking the stroke out of the equation mean more accuracy/consistency or less refinement/creativity?

If your only motive is winning, fun or not, is the stroke an advantage or a drawback?

pj
chgo

 

[straightline]

Only if you're thoroughly versed in CPG/CBL.

 

[ShootingArts]

What if we could just aim our cue like a rifle with the tip at the contact point and instead of stroking it simply pull a trigger to shoot it at any preset CB speed? Would taking the stroke out of the equation mean more accuracy/consistency or less refinement/creativity?

If your only motive is winning, fun or not, is the stroke an advantage or a drawback?

pj
chgo

The answer is both. There have been mechanical pool cues. One was on the market not too many years ago for around a hundred dollars, might be still out there. The computer pool games answer your question I believe. VP3 I believe it was let me duplicate a shot over and over. No creativity or refinement, perfect accuracy and consistency.

The gamers started a pool site with the intention of having tournaments and allowing gambling. Like most such enterprises they created a backdoor for superusers. I cashed in every tournament I played and several of the creators contacted me privately wanting to know who I was, assuming I was a superuser too. Nope, but with perfect aim and stroke I was a pool playing son of a gun!

Feds shut them down, the interstate gambling thing. I did demonstrate repeatedly that a pool player on a computer could spank a gamer that wasn't a pool player even if they had superuser capabilities.

Hu

 

[Kris_b1104]

This only works if you're implementing it on the RAM shot.

 

[straightline]

This only works if you're implementing it on the RAM shot.

A good pool gun would have different setting or at least replaceable charges.

 

[skor]

We can see that the tighter the pockets, the most accurate and consistent players have developed a more compact stroke.
Every movement will reduce accuracy. Old school players with big stroke like Bustamante never had a chance as pocket gotten tighter over the years even before the age factor.
Unfortunately, the body mechanics requires that movement.

 

[straightline]

We can see that the tighter the pockets, the most accurate and consistent players have developed a more compact stroke.
Every movement will reduce accuracy. Old school players with big stroke like Bustamante never had a chance as pocket gotten tighter over the years even before the age factor.
Unfortunately, the body mechanics requires that movement.

Then there's the pyramid guys. Gorst of course - and Stalev in particular could ram a ball like nobody's business.

 

[bbb]

We can see that the tighter the pockets, the most accurate and consistent players have developed a more compact stroke.
Every movement will reduce accuracy. Old school players with big stroke like Bustamante never had a chance as pocket gotten tighter over the years even before the age factor.
Unfortunately, the body mechanics requires that movement.

I’m not sure I agree with that
You see many top players today taking full back swings close to the bridge hand and doing well with the tight pockets
Chris Meling and fedor Gorst come to mind

 

[Mensabum]

What if we could just aim our cue like a rifle with the tip at the contact point and instead of stroking it simply pull a trigger to shoot it at any preset CB speed? Would taking the stroke out of the equation mean more accuracy/consistency or less refinement/creativity?

If your only motive is winning, fun or not, is the stroke an advantage or a drawback?

pj
chgo

I'm wanting to say a disadvantage as it's a natural thing requiring adjustment and tweaks now and then which directly impacts the winning only scenario.

 

[garczar]

Aww shit, winter boredom strikes again.

 

[skor]

I’m not sure I agree with that
You see many top players today taking full back swings close to the bridge hand and doing well with the tight pockets
Chris Meling and fedor Gorst come to mind

Great, out of millions of players around the world, there are two that are exceptional…

In any system, a moving part is a weakness point, and since the human body is far from being an accurate machine, the stroke is the weakest point in our game and usually the main reason for misses even at the top pro level.

 

[iusedtoberich]

We can see that the tighter the pockets, the most accurate and consistent players have developed a more compact stroke.
Every movement will reduce accuracy. Old school players with big stroke like Bustamante never had a chance as pocket gotten tighter over the years even before the age factor.
Unfortunately, the body mechanics requires that movement.

Busty beat the crap out of Shane in a couple TAR matches on a tight Diamond....

 

[nataddrho]

What if we could just aim our cue like a rifle with the tip at the contact point and instead of stroking it simply pull a trigger to shoot it at any preset CB speed? Would taking the stroke out of the equation mean more accuracy/consistency or less refinement/creativity?

If your only motive is winning, fun or not, is the stroke an advantage or a drawback?

pj
chgo

If you could do this then things would be easier.

 

[fastone371]

Great, out of millions of players around the world, there are two that are exceptional…

In any system, a moving part is a weakness point, and since the human body is far from being an accurate machine, the stroke is the weakest point in our game and usually the main reason for misses even at the top pro level.

By the same token if a big stroke is weakness shouldnt a short compact stroke be an advantage? Were are all of the players who are developing that short compact stroke for tight pockets??? It appears that even the players who earn a living playing pool have not changed their stroke to accommodate tight pockets.

 

[ShootingArts]

By the same token if a big stroke is weakness shouldnt a short compact stroke be an advantage? Were are all of the players who are developing that short compact stroke for tight pockets??? It appears that even the players who earn a living playing pool have not changed their stroke to accommodate tight pockets.

You have a point but take a look at Stephen? Hendry, snooker playing legend. A long pause before the last forward stroke and it is tight and compact. Snooker players in general seem to have a medium stroke best of my recollection. Not real short or long.

I think one of the biggest flaws pool players of lower skill levels have is too long of a bridge and stroke. Most, including me, would be far better off with a shorter stroke. The man that sorta mentored me for a few years recommended a four to six inch closed bridge and a short stroke. He was a very solid shortstop. I think I would compromise at an eight or ten inch bridge for most shots. Old and lazy, I sometimes use a very long bridge just to avoid walking.

Hu

 

[Cameron Smith]

This is technically how Cliff Thorburn played. He sets up with the tip about a couple inches from the cue ball, and then does a slow extra short backswing and just pushes through.

He does a slightly longer backswing when needs extra cue power, but most shots are literally just a poke.

 

[nataddrho]

We have a good discussion related to this in another thread.

 

[jasonlaus]

Great, out of millions of players around the world, there are two that are exceptional…

In any system, a moving part is a weakness point, and since the human body is far from being an accurate machine, the stroke is the weakest point in our game and usually the main reason for misses even at the top pro level.

Gymnastics, football, baseball, volleyball, etc etc etc. Lots of moving parts.

If fact, pool has almost no moving parts, in most cases only the forearm/elbow/wrist

BTW, he only mentioned 2, he didn't say there were only 2

 

[mikemosconi]

I’m not sure I agree with that
You see many top players today taking full back swings close to the bridge hand and doing well with the tight pockets
Chris Meling and fedor Gorst come to mind

Yes - but the big difference is that most of the great players today who pull the cue further back on the backswing do not have much shoulder integration into their stroke - it is mostly an elbow only pendulum swing.
So they are clearly more compact and robotic. They get the timing down so that the elbow pivot allows for max velocity as the cue strikes the cue ball and that creates the action needed without extra effort or moving parts.
Some, like Meglino, as seen this week, are mostly just forward motion of the cue with little back swing - he uses a short backswing almost exclusively when he wants to draw the cue - watch closely on different shots.
There is NO doubt that the old Brunswick GC 4 7/8 standard and the Cenntenial/ Anniversary model were 5+ — allowed for way more leeway in stroke mechanics to still play very very well.

 

[WobblyStroke]

Poolmanis noted that with virtual pool, where the ai stroke is perfecr, bad players still fail to run out. There's no escaping needing to learn the game.

That said, a stroke can save u from ur own poor plans with subconscious adjustments u aren't even aware of. Even a player as great as Earl has been known to tell his scotch partner he'll draw it around, aim up low, and then hit a shot perfectly on his desired route... which would be physically impossible if he actually drew it.