Perma-Rack Setup and Initial Impressions

[td873]

Use some Calipers on the plastic template.... then add the dia of one of the holes.

View attachment 629610

As you probably know, It’s slightly more detailed as the mechanism for the balls touching is an interference from the donut. That is, the donut is placed slightly off center to “rock” the balls into position from the bottom. So, the center to center distance is just a starting point for the endeavor. Some of the donuts are actually placed ever-so-slightly off center to “push” the balls i to place. That’s why the donuts have to be adjusted.

I suspect I could (re)design the template to have the placement holes already off-center and then you could just place the donut at a specific spot with the edge of the donut touching the template at a single marked point. (Rather than placing the donuts in the center of the placement hole and then adjusting all that need it). The offset placement holes might reduce the number of donut moves. I’ll give that some thought, but likely not worth the effort. It’s pretty easy already.

-td

 

[boogieman]

Fwiw, I designed a more user friendly template master. It’s clear thin plastic and the holes are smaller to improve donut placement. Let me know if anyone wants to try it out. I can get out all the stuff to remake them and I figure I can send em out for like 5 bucks all-in. First 5 or so people. I dont really want to start selling a 5 dollar thing. Doh!

The key issues with this type of template, and the reason I designed my own, is that that the donuts need to be slightly adjusted after placement to get all the balls tight. And because adjusting the donuts is necessary, I found that a template master that could stay on the table was required. I can see which balls/donuts need adjustment when racked and “fix” it in real time.

This version is so easy to use that you could take it to the pool hall and get the donut template in place in well under 5 minutes.

-td

Please put me in line for one, I'd like to try it!

 

[TheBasics]

Use some Calipers on the plastic template.... then add the dia of one of the holes.

View attachment 629610

Wouldn't it just be easier to measure from the SAME side of BOTH holes?

hank

 

[Bob Jewett]

Wouldn't it just be easier to measure from the SAME side of BOTH holes?

hank

If you use the jaws in contact (inside or outside distance) it's easier to get an accurate reading. Doing the same side of two holes requires you to eyeball the fit.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I’ll do my best. Actually, before I ordered this template, I was using one of your (I think it was yours) templates from Dr. Dave’s site, printing them out, punching holes in them, and marking the table.

For those who are curious about this, those templates are here: https://billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/racking/tight/ -- see towards the bottom of the page.
I put a bunch of different spacings in that file since some people can't print at 100% and some balls are more than 1mm small.

 

[Shuddy]

Fwiw, I designed a more user friendly template master. It’s clear thin plastic and the holes are smaller to improve donut placement. Let me know if anyone wants to try it out. I can get out all the stuff to remake them and I figure I can send em out for like 5 bucks all-in. First 5 or so people. I dont really want to start selling a 5 dollar thing. Doh!

The key issues with this type of template, and the reason I designed my own, is that that the donuts need to be slightly adjusted after placement to get all the balls tight. And because adjusting the donuts is necessary, I found that a template master that could stay on the table was required. I can see which balls/donuts need adjustment when racked and “fix” it in real time.

This version is so easy to use that you could take it to the pool hall and get the donut template in place in well under 5 minutes.

-td

Yeah, I talked about this in the video. While it took slightly less adjustment than doing it without the PermaRack, I can see there still needs a little adjustment to get a perfect rack quickly. And, as I mentioned, it’s not always as simple as adjusting the donut of the offending ball. Sometimes it can be a donut 3 balls away creating a chain of pressure.

 

[Shuddy]

Fwiw, I designed a more user friendly template master. It’s clear thin plastic and the holes are smaller to improve donut placement. Let me know if anyone wants to try it out. I can get out all the stuff to remake them and I figure I can send em out for like 5 bucks all-in. First 5 or so people. I dont really want to start selling a 5 dollar thing. Doh!

The key issues with this type of template, and the reason I designed my own, is that that the donuts need to be slightly adjusted after placement to get all the balls tight. And because adjusting the donuts is necessary, I found that a template master that could stay on the table was required. I can see which balls/donuts need adjustment when racked and “fix” it in real time.

This version is so easy to use that you could take it to the pool hall and get the donut template in place in well under 5 minutes.

-td

Btw, what’s ‘all the stuff’ you used to make it?

 

[Shuddy]

Good video. Can you measure the center-to-center spacing of the holes?

It’s 2am where I live and I’ve had a couple of glasses of wine I’m reluctant to post these photos because all I can tell you is that, despite the deceptive camera angle, the start of the tape measure is as close to the edge of one of the circles as possible, and I tried to make the tape measure run through the center of the other holes.



I’m out of wine though, so …. Boo.

Edit: where are my photos?

 

[Bob Jewett]

It’s 2am where I live and I’ve had a couple of glasses of wine I’m reluctant to post these photos because all I can tell you is that, despite the deceptive camera angle, the start of the tape measure is as close to the edge of one of the circles as possible, and I tried to make the tape measure run through the center of the other holes.



I’m out of wine though, so …. Boo.

Edit: where are my photos?

Just go down to Harbor Freight in the morning and get their $10 electric calipers. I don't know if they sell wine or not.

 

[Shuddy]

Just go down to Harbor Freight in the morning and get their $10 electric calipers. I don't know if they sell wine or not.

View attachment 629653

Hahaha! I feel silly repeating this all the time, but I live on a small island in South Korea. I don’t think we have any Harbor Freights and certainly none that sell wine

 

[Bob Jewett]

Hahaha! I feel silly repeating this all the time, but I live on a small island in South Korea. I don’t think we have any Harbor Freights and certainly none that sell wine

Of course you live on a small island in South Korea. Do you think I don't pay attention to your posts? Like your mention of the crusty old carom guy. Harbor Freight has a solution. How you get to Pleasant Hill is your problem.

 

[Shuddy]

Just go down to Harbor Freight in the morning and get their $10 electric calipers. I don't know if they sell wine or not.

View attachment 629653

Damn it, now I’m shopping under the influence:

 

[TheBasics]

If you use the jaws in contact (inside or outside distance) it's easier to get an accurate reading. Doing the same side of two holes requires you to eyeball the fit.

Bob, Howdy;

OR ... use the prongs for measuring the ID perhaps? You know the short ones on the top.
Or use a pin placed to stop the arms ... lots of ways to do it. chuckle.

hank

 

[Shuddy]

T

Of course you live on a small island in South Korea. Do you think I don't pay attention to your posts? Like your mention of the crusty old carom guy. Harbor Freight has a solution. How you get to Pleasant Hill is your problem

Starting a GoFundMe to get me to Pleasant Hill to buy digital calipers.

 

[MmmSharp]

T

Starting a GoFundMe to get me to Pleasant Hill to buy digital calipers.

In for a canadian dollar. Post the link.

 

[Saturated Fats]

I've noticed that at least some of the commercial template racks have the placement holes cut in a diamond shape. Can't do this with donuts. Would that improve the chances of a quick and easy tight rack?

 

[Bob Jewett]

I've noticed that at least some of the commercial template racks have the placement holes cut in a diamond shape. Can't do this with donuts. Would that improve the chances of a quick and easy tight rack?

I've heard that the diamond shape for the holes is supposed to make the template work better for a range of ball sizes.

 

[Shuddy]

I've heard that the diamond shape for the holes is supposed to make the template work better for a range of ball sizes.

Don’t worry too much about the exact placement of the calipers in photos. Once I let go of them to take the photo they move a little.

Out side Edge to edge should be quite accurate, as I could use the inside edge calipers, but center to center I eye balled.

Typing this as I walk my dog. I’m an idiot. I could have just done inside edge to edge and math. Will check later.

 

[Shuddy]

Don’t worry too much about the exact placement of the calipers in photos. Once I let go of them to take the photo they move a little.

Out side Edge to edge should be quite accurate, as I could use the inside edge calipers, but center to center I eye balled.

Typing this as I walk my dog. I’m an idiot. I could have just done inside edge to edge and math. Will check later.

Okay, I did those photos quickly as the package arrived just as I was about to walk the fuzz ball.

I will attempt to do much more accurate measurements of a variety of holes to see if the maker has made adjustments for for balls to apply pressure etc.

If the maker happens to read this, I’m not reverse engineering. Just providing answers to people who this interesting. If it bothers you, I’m happy to delete.

 

[td873]

Please put me in line for one, I'd like to try it!

Alright, I finally got some free time and picked my rack "template master" project back-up. The prior version was still in prototype mode, but workable. I used it a bunch, but it was still rough. A more polished version needed some slight improvements. So, I redid some measurements, did some math and improved the layout. It is much better now. I ended up using material for a different project I have going, but it's definitely workable.

Here's what it does and how it's an improvement over magic racks and other donut solutions:

• The material is very thin and the holes are optimized for the donuts. That is, the holes are the same size as the donuts to remove as much user error as possible. [video below]
• The optimized hole sizes and locations improve initial setup time and accuracy. The thinness also improves donut placement as you don't have any interfering material. You have good visibility and access.
  • In my prototype version you needed to adjust some of the donuts to get them all lined up perfect so all the balls touch. It was easy to do, but still needed manipulation.
  • In this version, it's almost perfect from the start. I set it up 1/2 dozen times without needing to modify any donuts. So, it was set it and forget it.
• ---
• The material is thin so you can place the donuts and put the balls down with the template master in place. So you can see which ones (if any) need adjustment in real time.
  • You can literally set this thing up in 1 minute and have a perfect rack for the night or longer.
  • It's so quick you could take it to a pool hall or even to league.
• It's not a single use device, and it doesn't wear out.
  • You can take the donuts up as many times as you like and get it set back up easily.
• Note: although it's a triangle, the template master has an orientation.
  • At first I added a center line, then short center markers - but I didn't want anything to rub off on the felt.
  • So, I elected to cut a small center notch for alignment.
  • Also, it is worth noting that the material is a thin plastic. So, you need to treat it with the same caution you would with a magic rack.
• ------
• Everyone that I've seen/heard of using donuts as a template rack has high praise for that setup. But it was inconvenient and took time to get right. That detracted from usefulness and likelihood of repetitive use.
  • The donuts start to degrade over time, and sometimes they pop up.
  • You may also want to play a different game and take them off.
  • This improved version really cleans up all those issues.
• In my opinion, this is really the best template master out there.

In the video below, I take off a donut template and then reset it. It took 53 seconds and it was a good setup. The donut holes are just right, so if you get the donut placed inside the hold, it's probably placed correctly. No tinkering needed.

-td

AlphaRacks

Notch vs line

Prototypes