phenolic balls all equal?

[Oregonmeds]

I have been fixing up a dirt cheap dead gold crown on a zero budget and just now have finally made it playable, but my slow cloth and cheap balls make this table horrible to play on. Nothing works right like draw or english or masse or even working my way around 3 rails is difficult with this garbage.

I've lucked into help from a user on here donating his old simonis to me, and I guess before I wreck this "new used simonis cloth" with burn marks I should start looking for new or used better balls (keeping in mind my zero budget).

I see many sets listed as belgian made phenolic, that aren't always listed as Aramith, and or rebranded like Spalding or Mizerak etc that also say aramith phenolic in small letters somewhere. They come up failry often dirt cheap, I could actually afford some eventually a whole lot sooner than real Aramith branded good balls.

Are these cheaper copies or rebranded aramith phenolic balls going to play the same and save the cloth the same as expensive true aramith phenolics?

I see they say flat out they are just silkscreened stripes and numbers, but aside from looks and wear on them will there be a difference?

How about until I can afford better balls, will waxing the non phenolics save the cloth from cheap ball burns and make them play more like I'm used to, or will trying to wax them too much or often build up white wax residue on my cloth?


I hate to be so cheap and ask these dumb questions, but I'm disabled and my financial situation is just not changing any time soon, so I'm trying to see what level of play and low wear I can get for the least dollars because basically there are no dollars to put towards the play of my table. I'll be lucky to afford a new cue ball atm if that.

What is the least $$ best solution worth saving or waiting for?

 

[brechbt]

I have been fixing up a dirt cheap dead gold crown on a zero budget and just now have finally made it playable, but my slow cloth and cheap balls make this table horrible to play on. Nothing works right like draw or english or masse or even working my way around 3 rails is difficult with this garbage.

I've lucked into help from a user on here donating his old simonis to me, and I guess before I wreck this "new used simonis cloth" with burn marks I should start looking for new or used better balls (keeping in mind my zero budget).

I see many sets listed as belgian made phenolic, that aren't always listed as Aramith, and or rebranded like Spalding or Mizerak etc that also say aramith phenolic in small letters somewhere. They come up failry often dirt cheap, I could actually afford some eventually a whole lot sooner than real Aramith branded good balls.

Are these cheaper copies or rebranded aramith phenolic balls going to play the same and save the cloth the same as expensive true aramith phenolics?

I see they say flat out they are just silkscreened stripes and numbers, but aside from looks and wear on them will there be a difference?

How about until I can afford better balls, will waxing the non phenolics save the cloth from cheap ball burns and make them play more like I'm used to, or will trying to wax them too much or often build up white wax residue on my cloth?


I hate to be so cheap and ask these dumb questions, but I'm disabled and my financial situation is just not changing any time soon, so I'm trying to see what level of play and low wear I can get for the least dollars because basically there are no dollars to put towards the play of my table. I'll be lucky to afford a new cue ball atm if that.

What is the least $$ best solution worth saving or waiting for?

You don't mention what your budget is, but you do say a couple of times that you're very interested in controlling burn marks. The vast majority of burn marks come from the cue ball. I learned from experience that a good quality cue ball will cause far fewer marks than a cheap cue ball. Therefore, if you can't afford a good set of balls, then at least buy a good Saluc cue ball and save up for a better ball set. You can probably pick one up on eBay for $15 or so. Also, make sure you and everyone else uses a break patch when breaking.

 

[angldemn]

I think brechbt has an excellent suggestion, but if your balls are really cheap they may be much lighter than a quality cue ball.

The Aramith continental sets seem like a pretty good deal.

http://www.sportskids.com/superstor...ovcpn=Billiards&ovcrn=792827-Economy+Ball+Set

 

[MitchAlsup]

Are these cheaper copies or rebranded aramith phenolic balls going to play the same and save the cloth the same as expensive true aramith phenolics?

I see they say flat out they are just silkscreened stripes and numbers, but aside from looks and wear on them will there be a difference?

How about until I can afford better balls, will waxing the non phenolics save the cloth from cheap ball burns and make them play more like I'm used to, or will trying to wax them too much or often build up white wax residue on my cloth?

Just buy some balls made by Saluc {Aramith, Duramith, or Brunswick Centinials}

Waxing, no. What you could do is to get some car polishing (glasse) and use its mild cutting action to put a shine on the old balls. I have a couple of worn cue balls that get this about every other week. It makes them a lot faster and take (and give) english like they are supposed to. Just polish until you can see no surface imperfections.

 

[scratchs]

Where at in Oregon..I'm in Salem..I have an extra set of arimith balls you can have

 

[Keane]

Where at in Oregon..I'm in Salem..I have an extra set of arimith balls you can have

Same here, I'm going to pick up a set of Premiums soon, and my old set is still serviceable. I'm in Hillsboro, and won't have a use for them anymore as of tomorrow

 

[scratchs]

Same here, I'm going to pick up a set of Premiums soon, and my old set is still serviceable. I'm in Hillsboro, and won't have a use for them anymore as of tomorrow

Thats what the other.set is..I think he's in medford..just a guess

 

[Oregonmeds]

I'm in Beaverton, edge of hillsboro... Thanks guys. I wasn't looking for a handout, but I'm in no position to turn it down if you really do have a set you honestly don't need or want anymore.

My budget atm is zero, but given a month or so when I'm a little more out of debt then I could get some of those off brand phenolic's which were only $35 or less on ebay I was just looking at. Or a cue ball... I was just checking to see if those off brands were something worth getting and would play the same. That's not a lot of cash compared to $100 and up Aramith sets. Even the cheapest used aramith set was $60 plus shipping that I saw. It would take a couple months to save for the aramiths.

I have 3 sets of cheap balls, none of which feel or look like phenolic. Two sets have no gloss and the cue balls actually feel/look like rocks, maybe moon rocks given all the craters. I think they're best for drilling and making a score counter rather than trying to play with them. They don't look old enough to be classics or antiques, they just came with the table and one set was in a Mizerak cheap box.

This table etc came from a garage with a bare concrete floor and I think the rocks with craters just hit the floor a hundred or so too many times.

To the guy in hillsboro or salem, I do have some extra glass for making a nice table light if you're interested in a trade, if you don't have a good light. I'd feel better about that than just taking a free set of good balls. Very large and very heavy half globes that would look really nice if you took the time to make up a frame or whatever for them, but not worth enough to sell on ebay and or ship anywhere since all I have is the glass and since they're so huge and rediculously heavy.

I have 7 of them, of which I'm going to make my light from just 3 and that's for a 9' table if that gives any indication of size. Probably easily over a foot and a half wide each and about the same height.

thanks guys:thumbup:

 

[scratchs]

Heres my email...ted.1515@gmail.com just drop me a line when your in town,no need to think its a hand out..their just collecting dust..I give alot of stuff away from time to time..

 

[Island Drive]

One big issue is probably your cloth. I've been told over the years, reinstalling and restretching cloth takes away from its playability. By stretching the cloth a second time you make it too slick and the minimal nap that non directional cloths have nowadays become an ice rink when pulled twice, especially if the used cloth has been on the table awhile.

 

[manwon]

I have been fixing up a dirt cheap dead gold crown on a zero budget and just now have finally made it playable, but my slow cloth and cheap balls make this table horrible to play on. Nothing works right like draw or english or masse or even working my way around 3 rails is difficult with this garbage.

I've lucked into help from a user on here donating his old simonis to me, and I guess before I wreck this "new used simonis cloth" with burn marks I should start looking for new or used better balls (keeping in mind my zero budget).

I see many sets listed as belgian made phenolic, that aren't always listed as Aramith, and or rebranded like Spalding or Mizerak etc that also say aramith phenolic in small letters somewhere. They come up failry often dirt cheap, I could actually afford some eventually a whole lot sooner than real Aramith branded good balls.

Are these cheaper copies or rebranded aramith phenolic balls going to play the same and save the cloth the same as expensive true aramith phenolics?

I see they say flat out they are just silkscreened stripes and numbers, but aside from looks and wear on them will there be a difference?

How about until I can afford better balls, will waxing the non phenolics save the cloth from cheap ball burns and make them play more like I'm used to, or will trying to wax them too much or often build up white wax residue on my cloth?


I hate to be so cheap and ask these dumb questions, but I'm disabled and my financial situation is just not changing any time soon, so I'm trying to see what level of play and low wear I can get for the least dollars because basically there are no dollars to put towards the play of my table. I'll be lucky to afford a new cue ball atm if that.

What is the least $$ best solution worth saving or waiting for?

I own a pool room in Tacoma / Lakewood Washington I have a number of excess some used some not in complete sets of balls laying around. You may need to buy some balls to complete the set but they are all Aramith and in good condition. I will send you an almost complete set for the cost of shipping. You can order the balls you need from Meuller Recreational products to complete the set.

It that helps send me a PM. I will send you the balls and you can send me the shipping.

Hope this helps

 

[Oregonmeds]

Island drive, I haven't received the "new used cloth" yet, I'm still on the slow stuff this table had on it originally. An icerink would be very much prefferable to the old cloth I'm on now, but I'll keep that in mind and not expect perfection from the simonis then.

Scratchs thank you, but I'm never in salem. I'm limited to public transportation atm which makes that impossible, even though it's technically not really that far. I guess if you're coming this way some day I can meet you somewhere, otherwise I'll just try to work something out with Keane in hillsboro, he's within range. Thanks for trying though, I do appreciate it.:thumbup:

 

[Oregonmeds]

I own a pool room in Tacoma / Lakewood Washington I have a number of excess some used some not in complete sets of balls laying around. You may need to buy some balls to complete the set but they are all Aramith and in good condition. I will send you an almost complete set for the cost of shipping. You can order the balls you need from Meuller Recreational products to complete the set.

It that helps send me a PM. I will send you the balls and you can send me the shipping.

Hope this helps

Wow this is a whole lot of unexpected help. You guys are great!
I'll let you know, if it works out with the guy in hillsboro then I should go that route, so there's no shipping costs involved.

But since you have a pool room and are offerring to help...
Goldcrown4 is the user sending that used simonis which is in really pretty good shape, but he's short one entire end rail worth, it got ruined removing it. If you use simonis green 860 and have a strip that would fit an end rail that survives removal next time you recover... Then I'd have a full set. If you don't use simonis or use a different color don't worry about it, my old cloth's color is similar to this and I'll just have one rail that plays a little different.

Here's a pic of his old cloth he's sending to show the color, I think it's just simonis green but can't be sure:

 

[Oregonmeds]

OK nobody laugh, but here are a couple pics just to show what I'm talking about in regards to having saved a "dirt cheap DEAD gold crown" and the cloth I'm talking about dealing with now... As you can see it's not much of a table with two corners that were totally broken, most would have probably thrown this table away, but I saved it from a repo home where it was abandoned.

I fixed the broken slate corners, shaved off the pins in the slate so they could be leveled and patched where pins were bent and broken, stripped sanded and refinished the whole thing removing years worth of layers of ugly paint, stripped all the old plating off the metal parts and polished all the metal, even the trim rub rails all around the outside are polished and scratch free now.

The slate repairs look awful I know, but I got them strong and level and you can't feel any unevenness or anything, it should play decent when I'm done.

So far I have about a months worth of work into this table just to get it to this point, but it was done over a span of several months just a little time here and there as I could.

 

[Oregonmeds]

Some metalwork.. All the castings were painted and scratched to hell way beyond the old original nickel plating or whatever it was. All metal, feet too, were sanded with 80 grit to remove all scratches and paint and then polished up to ~600 grit. Nothing perfect or much to brag about here, but I truly have saved a "dirt cheap dead gold crown".

When I got the table it had baby poop brown heavily worn paint on the skirts, a few layers of white on the legs etc, and what looked like red nail polish colored paint on all the metalwork to try and hide all the deep scratches. All the paint had runs and brush marks and scratches, it really looked unsalvageable.

 

[Keane]

I've been watching your progress, definitely impressive!

I don't know much about the balls I have other than they seem pretty quality (despite being old/dirty), but I was going to get some new ones to go with the new cloth Just PM me or something and you can pick them up whenever. The rails are being removed from my table tomorrow anyway, so I won't have a use for them at all.

 

[JB Cases]

I love watching this project. I am a big fan of recycling rather than destroying and throwing away. When this table is done it will be a treasure for you.

 

[jay helfert]

If you get those balls from Manwon, let me know which ones you are missing. I can probably help you and it's a freebie. :smile:
P.S. I admire the fact that you've worked so hard to restore this table. That's real dedication!

 

[Oregonmeds]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the help and encouragement. I just wanted one bad enough to do whatever it took to get it, and I knew I wanted one that was pretty flawless and just couldn't afford that, so figured I'd make whatever I could get over until it looked like I wanted. I saved and looked on line forever until I found one I could afford, was close enough, and could work out a deal to actually get it here.

Then it was just a project I spent spare time on here and there for something to do really... Didn't beat myself to death trying to race and do it all at once, just sanded and polished one piece a day or whatever until I am where I'm at with it now. It's not looking flawless yet, but I'll keep at it.

Of course every once in a while I do see something like this, and get a little sick thinking it would have been soooo much nicer to start with something better:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brunswick-9-ft-table-/290609779483?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a9b1531b

Isn't that sick? It really did sell for that little, and has simonis and already looks better than mine does after all this work. At least it wasn't anywhere near me or I'd be kicking myself even more. But then again I guess there is an extra bit of satifaction having saved something that just wouldn't have survived without my help and that I did myself. At least that's what I keep telling myself.

Keane I thought your name sounded familiar, I responded to your first post about you finding out who the manufacturer is of your table, and coincidentally it was the very visible wear on your cloth that made me think I needed to get better balls to avoid that happening on mine.

Why does his table in this pic attached have this heavy very distinct laser sharp wear pattern if he already had phenolic balls that aren't supposed to wear and burn cloth so much like this? That really is exactly what I was trying to avoid on my cloth. I guess don't always break the same way or whatever, but that is kind of the point of practice isn't it? Repeating the same thing until you nail it every time... And once you get down a break that works for a given table you do kind of stick with it...

 

[JB Cases]

Hey OregonMeds - I know you are getting some used Simonis but I want to donate some BRAND NEW Milliken SuperPro to you in exchange for progress reports sent to my friends at www.CueSight.com

You seem very meticulous and I want to know if you are interested in tracking the life and wear of the cloth and reporting on it along with your table progress? If so PM me your address and I will send you a free cut of the SuperPro.

The reason I am doing this is because we tested the Milliken for "burn marks" against Simonis and other brands and found it to be much more resistant. However I would like for someone with the time and desire to do their own testing. If that guy is you then I am willing to donate the cloth to the effort.