Are phenolic break banned in any organizations, pool halls, events, etc.?
Phenolic Break Tips
- Thread starter Tennesseejoe
- Start date
The WPA rules say that you can’t have a tip that can scratch or damage the addressed ball (QB). I don’t know if they have ruled on whether phenolic tips violate this rule.
The CSI/BCAPL rule says “d. The cue tip must be composed of leather, fibrous, or pliable material.” I don’t see how you could argue that phenolic meets this requirement, although there may be jump or break tips that are very hard but are still “fibrous”.
They are banned under the WPA equipment specs. They cause significant scuff marks on the cue ball. (This may be less with the newer chalks.)
There are reports of them causing half-moon cracks, but I haven't noticed that where I play, and people there do use phenolic break tips.
I have had half moon dents in my cue ball and several other balls by phenolic visitors and did not realize it till a few days later. It was my best set but older so now i need to get a new set. What balls would recommend for a home table? I'm 83 and only plan to play for 20 more years.
Aren’t phenolic tips the standard/default for most major brands of break and jump cues?
Are they all banned by the WPA?
Are they dents or cracks? The usual damage is a roundish crack that would be maybe a quarter inch in diameter if the circle were completed. I have never seen actual dents unless the ball hit a nail or screw and then the dent or chip would be much smaller.
As for which set to get now, get a set you like the look of, but make sure it is cast phenolic, like Aramith or Dynaspheres.
According to the actual equipment specs, phenolic tips are banned, but it's the local TD/organization who may or may not enforce the ban.
How is it defined? Many of the major tips are leather or other fibers that are impregnated with resin. Leather and fibrous materials are said to be permitted.
Others, like the Taom 2.0, were a different composite material (not phenolic, I believe).
I’m sure nobody has the resources to do this, but it should be like golf – where tips are submitted to a testing facility and are deemed acceptable or not, presumably depend, depending on whether they damage a cueball.
I think the main decider should be the tip hardness compared to the cue ball, like the tip should be five times softer, whatever that means in an actual hardness measurement.
The equipment specs are on the WPA website under the rules tab.
From the equipment specs:
“The cue tip may not be of a material that can scratch or damage the addressed ball. The cue tip on any stick must be composed of a piece of specially processed leather or other fibrous or pliable material that extends the natural line of the shaft end of the cue and contacts the cue ball when the shot is executed.”
That still doesn’t tell me which tips are okay! I’m assuming that impregnated leather like Predator, Kamui and Samara are okay, as are composites like Taom 2.0 and the wound glass fibers on the new Cuetecs are all fine, if for no other reason than it would be surprising to me that the major manufacturers are making something non-compliant. Plus, the sponsored players using those cues have all played in WPA championships without any apparent issue.
As an aside, the line about having to extend the natural line of the shaft makes me think that technically a mushrooming tip would be noncompliant. As you may know, many top snooker players deliberately have tips that are wider than their ferrule.
Yes, that's a problem. The spec should be according to measurable hardness, not some nebulous description of the composition that people can work around. The current spec also excludes -- unfairly -- any possible soft plastic tip that might not require chalking, unless you somehow work some percentage of fibers into the mix.
I don't think proper phenolic tips do this. I do remember G10 tips doing this. For a while cueballs had cracks, half moon marks and dents. Even the sound of breaking with a G10 is horrendous. With a monster break it sounds almost like glass breaking. G10 can allegedly have different hardness, so not all G10 tips are necessarily like that, but some are.
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I don't believe there is any way to make a leather tip hard enough to damage a cue ball. I've tried a lot of methods, pressing, boiling, boiling and pressing, soaking in all sorts of liquids. Not to damage cue balls obviously, but to make the perfect jump tip. I haven't even found a way to make a tip hard enough to have the jumping performance of standard phenolic. Now leather does have other advantages (it's easier to control the cueball etc), but as far as hardness, no.
I did not know top snooker players deliberately have tips wider than their ferrule. Interesting. Do you know the reason/benefits?
I think they just don't see any reason to trim the mushrooming. The standard reason to do so is that the edge might tear more easily. Is that true?
A possible factor is that they seem to use more fibrous tips and those are harder to trim without bringing out a fringe of fibers.
Another possibility: pool players notice mushrooming more when using a closed bridge and a long backstroke. There are some pool (and carom) players who bring the tip through the bridge on some shots.
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My assumption was always that it allowed the player to have a smaller shaft diameter (and thus less deflection) while preserving the benefits of a larger tip.
I did just do some googling and found this from 20 years ago:
“The reason why players have been adopting the mushroom tip is because in theory that the bigger surface area on contact means there is less chance of miscueing and putting unnecessary side on the cueball.
However, there is a disadvantage with the oversized tips is that it makes playing off the cushion much harder. You have to raise your bridge higher so you don't catch the tip on the cushion which makes the shot more difficult.”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/lancashire/content/articles/2006/04/27/cue_doctor_tip_advice.shtml
It also brought up an old AZ thread:
Strange theory. I suspect no one ever tested it.
In my opinion, snooker was never evolved as pool when it comes to equipment and cue tips are not different.
For years when pool players were already all over layered tips and finding tips that do not mushroom, hold shape and more consist, snooker player just kept using the good old Elk Master which is a soft tip that mushrooms a lot so they stopped bothering with grooming it every five minutes like a pool player would and accept it as it is. getting used to it is a lot less fuss over the tip, just like snooker players fuss less about equipment in general.
These days with new young players, you see more players care about what they play with and more tips options that mushroom less.
For years when pool players were already all over layered tips and finding tips that do not mushroom, hold shape and more consist, snooker player just kept using the good old Elk Master which is a soft tip that mushrooms a lot so they stopped bothering with grooming it every five minutes like a pool player would and accept it as it is. getting used to it is a lot less fuss over the tip, just like snooker players fuss less about equipment in general.
These days with new young players, you see more players care about what they play with and more tips options that mushroom less.