Phenolic..what is the exactly plastic material name ???

Mr Dynamite

Mr Dynamite

Registered
hello together,

can somebody give me the exactly name of the plastic material "Phenolic" ???

for example:
PVC--> Poly Vinyl Chlorid

Thank you for the answers and nice christmas

R.
 
thank you for the link david.

you are right dave it was a trivial question.
but is not this want i want to know (sorry my mistake..have a heart dave it´s christmastime;)).
most shafts have the combination (black-silverring-black)
i want to know what material the black one is, which is installed
on the shaft and under the joint

thank you and BR

R.
 
Mr Dynamite said:
thank you for the link david.

you are right dave it was a trivial question.
but is not this want i want to know (sorry my mistake..have a heart dave it´s christmastime;)).
most shafts have the combination (black-silverring-black)
i want to know what material the black one is, which is installed
on the shaft and under the joint

thank you and BR

R.
Click to expand...

First off, phenolic is not a plastic. The word plastic is a Greek word that means able to reform. You can't do that with phenolic.

There are many types of material that are grouped together and are referred to as phenolics however. It is basically a material such as cotton or fiber glass or one of many other materials that are either wrapped around a cylinder or laid flat in sheets, then having a resin forced into the material under great pressure and heat and the tubes and sheets you see are the result.

Unlike plastic, that can be heated to a rather low temp and then reshaped, phenolic material can be heated to a much higher temp but when it gets to hot it degrades instead of being able reform.

Dick
 
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mr dynamite, seems you have 2 questions. "what exactly is the name of phenolic".....in cue terms...phenolic. plenty of links already provided as to the chemical make up and structure. the black material you are questioning on the joints could be a variety of materials. phenolic is but one option. Juma and PVC are a couple of others.
 
Internet

My favorite line I have read here....."you're on the internet dipstick look it up".....Thanks to whom ever listed it. Anyways. Phenolic isn't plastic.
 
to the OP : what you call "phenolic" isn't a plastic, but a composite material . the resins used are phenol-formaldehydes (PF)

linen phenolic composites are made from cloth and phenol-formaldehyde resins. usually, those materials are used for their electrical insulation properties in the industry, motors ... (same goes for G10 (light yellow) , G11 (the stiffest. light brown) or FR4 (light green or yellow . less stiff) which are glass/epoxy composites).
AFAIK there isn't any glass/phenolic composite sold as electrical isolant, since the glass/epoxy-based composites are much more performant. so, when you see glass in the composite, there is a big chance that the resin is an epoxy .

note than you can found wood phenolic composites too .sold as sheet usually. It looks awesome, but it's verrrry hard to find :((( (at least in europe) . Paper phenolic composites are avaible too, cheaper than linen phenolic, but it's much more breakable. IMHO not good for cues or ferrules . In the "hobby world", paper or linen phenolics, G10 and G11 are used to craft ... Long Distance boomerangs :) . yes .
 
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Not a plastic?

rhncue said:
First off, phenolic is not a plastic. The word plastic is a Greek word that means able to reform. You can't do that with phenolic.

There are many types of material that are grouped together and are referred to as phenolics however. It is basically a material such as cotton or fiber glass or one of many other materials that are either wrapped around a cylinder or laid flat in sheets, then having a resin forced into the material under great pressure and heat and the tubes and sheets you see are the result.

Unlike plastic, that can be heated to a rather low temp and then reshaped, phenolic material can be heated to a much higher temp but when it gets to hot it degrades instead of being able reform.

Dick
Click to expand...

Are you guys sure that phenolic is not a form of plastic? I understand that the above definition says that "plastic" means that you can reform it. Not always true. The modern definition does not read that way. There are 2 classifications of plastics. One is called Thermoset which is what category phenolic, epoxy, and tires on cars fall into. The process that like tires use is called Vulcanization which turns the mixture of chemicals into a harder and more usable material. Basically it's when you put chemicals together to create a type of polymer (plastic) that cannot be reversed in molecular structure. On the other hand the other kind of polymers is called Thermoplasts. This is the family of plastics that can be reheated and reshaped or recycled. Polymers that fall into this category are like PVC, ABS, PC-ABS, Nylons, and PP. With this plastic when you heat them past what is called their "glass transition point" for Amorphous materials or "melt transition point" for Semi crystalline materials the molecules will start to flow and you can reshape them. Another thing that has to be watched with these types of plastics is the "heat deflections temperatures" for that particular plastic. This is the temperature at which the molecules are stable and will not change or cause warp. For most resins this temp is below 180F for like PP and ABS is around 210F (going from memory). Every grade of polymers has different specs though so it is best to get the correct specs from the manufacture. A simple test to see if the material is Thermoplastic or Thermoset is just put an open flame to it. If it goes up in smoke it is a Thermoset and if it turns into what looks like a liquid then it is a Thermoplastic.

If anyone has any other questions about plastics please let me know as I have been working in the injection molding industry for over 13years and have many resources available.
 
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opiesbro said:
Are you guys sure that phenolic is not a form of plastic? I understand that everyone thinks that "plastic" means that you can reform it. Not always true. The modern definition does not read that way. There are 2 classifications of plastics. One is called Thermoset which is what category phenolic, epoxy, and tires on cars fall into. The process that like tires use is called Vulcanization which turns the mixture of chemicals into a harder and more usable material. Basically it's when you put chemicals together to create a type of polymer (plastic) that cannot be reversed in molecular structure. On the other hand the other kind of polymers is called Thermoplasts. This is the family of plastics that can be reheated and reshaped or recycled. Polymers that fall into this category are like PVC, ABS, PC-ABS, Nylons, and PP. With this plastic when you heat them past what is called their "glass transition point" for Amorphous materials or "melt transition point" for Semi crystalline materials the molecules will start to flow and you can reshape them. Another thing that has to be watched with these types of plastics is the "heat deflections temperatures" for that particular plastic. This is the temperature at which the molecules are stable and will not change or cause warp. For most resins this temp is below 180F for like PP and ABS is around 210F (going from memory). Every grade of polymers has different specs though so it is best to get the correct specs from the manufacture. A simple test to see if the material is Thermoplastic or Thermoset is just put an open flame to it. If it goes up in smoke it is a Thermoset and if it turns into what looks like a liquid then it is a Thermoplastic.

If anyone has any other questions about plastics please let me know as I have been working in the injection molding industry for over 13years and have many resources available.
Click to expand...
the resin used in the linen-phenolic composite is a thermoset .
 
opiesbro said:
Are you guys sure that phenolic is not a form of plastic? I understand that everyone thinks that "plastic" means that you can reform it. Not always true. The modern definition does not read that way. There are 2 classifications of plastics. One is called Thermoset which is what category phenolic, epoxy, and tires on cars fall into. The process that like tires use is called Vulcanization which turns the mixture of chemicals into a harder and more usable material. Basically it's when you put chemicals together to create a type of polymer (plastic) that cannot be reversed in molecular structure. On the other hand the other kind of polymers is called Thermoplasts. This is the family of plastics that can be reheated and reshaped or recycled. Polymers that fall into this category are like PVC, ABS, PC-ABS, Nylons, and PP. With this plastic when you heat them past what is called their "glass transition point" for Amorphous materials or "melt transition point" for Semi crystalline materials the molecules will start to flow and you can reshape them. Another thing that has to be watched with these types of plastics is the "heat deflections temperatures" for that particular plastic. This is the temperature at which the molecules are stable and will not change or cause warp. For most resins this temp is below 180F for like PP and ABS is around 210F (going from memory). Every grade of polymers has different specs though so it is best to get the correct specs from the manufacture. A simple test to see if the material is Thermoplastic or Thermoset is just put an open flame to it. If it goes up in smoke it is a Thermoset and if it turns into what looks like a liquid then it is a Thermoplastic.

If anyone has any other questions about plastics please let me know as I have been working in the injection molding industry for over 13years and have many resources available.
Click to expand...

...............................................................................................

I understand that everyone thinks that "plastic" means that you can reform it. Not always true.
.......................................................................

Where is Jam when we need her?

plastic - Capable of being shaped or formed

Elastic - adjective. 1. capable of returning to its original length, shape, etc., after being stretched, deformed, compressed, or expanded.

Dale(Captain of the syntax police)
 
pdcue said:
...............................................................................................

I understand that everyone thinks that "plastic" means that you can reform it. Not always true.
.......................................................................

Where is Jam when we need her?

plastic - Capable of being shaped or formed

Elastic - adjective. 1. capable of returning to its original length, shape, etc., after being stretched, deformed, compressed, or expanded.

Dale(Captain of the syntax police)
Click to expand...

I fixed my blanket statement that you pointed out. Thank you for keeping me in check. :)
 
The only time a phenolic can be shaped and formed is when it is being layered up and produced. The process is a bit like making any other composite matrix but has a either a second half of the mold or is vacuum formed.
Now, fiberglass is used with an epoxy resin designed for use as an insulator for the construction of such things. This new material replaces the use of phenolic resins in the electrical isolation. A factory not far from here is using such a process now on large scale high voltage resistance assemblies.
While the phenolic resin can be moulded like a plastic and reinforced with glass and other reinforcements, the products that are created with a resin from continuous strand or laminated in a layered sheet set up are generally called composites.
Another example is like the thin multilayer plastic bags from supermarkets. If you remelt that plastic and tried to make a plastic bag from it , it will be next to useless. The separate orientated layers are not there anymore to give the material it's properties.We all call it a plastic bag , when in reality it is an extruded composite of plastic material.
 
In the aerospace community, plastics (PVC and the like) would be thermoplastics. Phenolics and epoxy impregnated fibers/fabrics would fit into the thermosetting composites catagory. Phenolics are much like epoxies in that they require two parts and time to cure. From my research, the only difference is the actual categories of the chemicals used. To the end user, they operate in much the same way. Phenolics are generally considered to be harder. They are both at least partly dependent on the material they are impregnating.

The actual name of phenolic is phenolic.
 
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