Phillipine imports

cueman said:
I wrote in my cue building book that the cuemakers there could become to cuemaking what Efren has become to pool if they had better equipment and did some things differently as you can see there is a lot of talent there to produce what they do with the tools they have. I am glad to see you and a few others there making really nice cues. The "all show and no go." as you put it is why they get criticized.
You are right about that Chris. But it is more of a product of how fierce the competition is here in attracting buyers. The "all show" tag though isn't always so as they do get to produce some awesome hitting specimens too. My question though is how consistent will that be? Assuming that they know how to make a cue shoot good, economic reasons still can greatly influence the outcome.

I do have the most advanced shop here from the get go because I already knew what I needed to restart a shop that'll give me results that I prefer. Like you, I modify and manufacture my own machinery and accesories. "You can be the best Neuro-Surgeon but with Orthopedist tools you are nothing".
 
bandido said:
Thank you Zack. I'm glad that you're happy with it. I still need to send you the prov. I know, I know... I'm being a dingbat!LOL

My pleasure Edwin! I know you've been busy and that you haven't forgotten about me. I've just been waiting patiently...lol. :D If it is at all possible I would like to have the provenance for the cue by early July so I can get the ladies' signatures on the certiicate in Peoria! If that's not possible it's no big deal though. Thanks again for the great cue.

Zack
 
zeeder said:
My pleasure Edwin! I know you've been busy and that you haven't forgotten about me. I've just been waiting patiently...lol. :D If it is at all possible I would like to have the provenance for the cue by early July so I can get the ladies' signatures on the certiicate in Peoria! If that's not possible it's no big deal though. Thanks again for the great cue.

Zack
Got it boss!LOL I am planning to make a real nice 2 pager that includes pictures of its production (ala TORTURE). Don't laugh too hard as there are shirtless photos of me while cutting the tiff diamonds and inlaying them.
 
bandido said:
Got it boss!LOL I am planning to make a real nice 2 pager that includes pictures of its production (ala TORTURE). Don't laugh too hard as there are shirtless photos of me while cutting the tiff diamonds and inlaying them.

I promise I won't laugh. :D It sounds really cool and will be an interesting historical document!
 
zeeder said:
I promise I won't laugh. :D It sounds really cool and will be an interesting historical document!
Here, so we can get over it and you won't feel as guilty.
First one is separating the tiff diamond inlay, second was final adjustments to windows before going into the recieving cavity and third are the separated windows against the inlay plans.

After viewing those pics, do you now understand the caricature behind my logo in my avatar?
 

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How about viatore cues are they any good ?, I read somewhere the waiting time is more than a year.
 
Fish said:
How about viatore cues are they any good ?, I read somewhere the waiting time is more than a year.
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Hear nothin but good words come out of the owners of viatorre cues.
 
I'll leave you two guys to discuss this. Monski may have the hook, line and sinker that you're waiting for.
 
bandido said:
Yes, Tony Bautista/Jazz is pretty talented but unfortunately they all are greatly affected by the economic conditions and buyer syatems here. Buyers squeeze every penny that they can from the makers price. These buyers leave the shops so content and laughing that they have cut the makers profit down to almost nothing but what they don't know is that they're the ones who will suffer later because these cuemakers WILL save capital expense on every aspect of their cue. Some of these buyer/dealers wil even purchase the woods to use and push to have his cues completed in a month and a half all the while thinking that he's getting the best of the cuemaker. Got news for you bumblebee!LOL This practice greatly affected these cuemakers products, reputation and attitude towards the craft.:-(

There's even a foreign ?cuemaker? here who transfers from one local cuemaker to another (you can tell when he transfers, the style changes). He gets bad feedback from a customer so he transfers to a different local cuemaker. First from Angeles City makers then Linds then Guagua makers, now discussing with Tony but keeps getting rejected. Last I heard was that he's trying to convince Tony to take the measly amount that he offers and put his brand on the cues that Tony'll make. Good Luck! Tony knows his story.

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Very true about Tony's and other talented makers here. Actually, I'm guilty of negotiating cue price with Tony. But he sees the logic in it because I ordered many cues. I think I have 6 or 7 Jazz cues now. There are still 4 to come to make to my Jazz collection complete. And yes, competition here is tight among makers so buyers gotta choose the right and dependable ones.
 
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bandido said:
Differing climatic conditions is a minor reason Monski. There are other construction stages and systems that have a greater impact on the outcome.

Resin impregnation? Like those earlier Taiwan cues that were marketed in the US in the early 90s? We know what happened to those and how those shoot!

Regarding wood warpage. You're right about Philippine cues shrinking up north and US cues Swelling down in the Orient. What you forgot to mention was Nelsonite sealed cues cracking.
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I stand corrected. I was just trying to answer the first post which I thought centered on the idea of wood warping. I didn't concentrate on the "bang for the bucks" stuff. Of course, the best answer will come from the most experienced cuemakers. Thanks for the input.
 
bandido said:
I'll leave you two guys to discuss this. Monski may have the hook, line and sinker that you're waiting for.
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Sorry but I don't get it. I'm not good at idioms. If it means I'm fishing or something, well I did not mean to make that impression. Thanks.
 
Wow !!! Was there an earlier thread on Viatore that I dont know about ?.. you two seems to have something going here ?
 
Fish said:
Wow !!! Was there an earlier thread on Viatore that I dont know about ?.. you two seems to have something going here ?
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None that I know of. And I don't think anything is goin on. People just talk and respond in their own ways. Doesn't mean anything. We were even next to each other playing Texas Hold'em last night. Everybody had a good time. Thanks
 
I heard a lot of interesting ideas about the two camps of poolmakers

I think part of the reason for poor cues being sold here is good old horsetrading. Instead of paying a fair price for a quality product, buyers haggle the price to death and expect primo quality, that only can go on so long before a craftsman has to become a crapsman to stay alive. Another valid point is the severe differnce in climate. Cues made there are done so under very humid and hot conditions. The cuemakers there may be able to make a cue that "works" under those conditions and fails quickly when the wood trys to breathe our air.
I accidentily stumbled into the poolfanatics forum and tried to discuss shaft finishing techniques with the craftsmen from the philipines. One of them politely pointed out the severe differences of climate and why some of my techniques would not work there. I suggest that unless a cue were crafted for a specific climate it may not be as reliable. There is a proper tool for every job my departed Father always said! And cues are the tools of pool players! Just a thought...
 
olsonsview said:
I think part of the reason for poor cues being sold here is good old horsetrading. Instead of paying a fair price for a quality product, buyers haggle the price to death and expect primo quality, that only can go on so long before a craftsman has to become a crapsman to stay alive.
Unfortunately, you're correct. But this just doesn't happen in this craft. Just the same in the construction industry, if the owner doesn't specify in detail what brand is preferred the contractor might just use inexpensive brands on plumbing and elactrical fixtures, cabinets, carpet, etc. It happens everywhere and anywhere.

olsonsview said:
Another valid point is the severe differnce in climate. Cues made there are done so under very humid and hot conditions. The cuemakers there may be able to make a cue that "works" under those conditions and fails quickly when the wood trys to breathe our air.
That's only one factor and really is the easiest to deal with. There are other construction stages that contribute at a higher percentage than the above mentioned. And these are some of those that knowledgeable cuemakers take with them to the grave.

olsonsview said:
I accidentily stumbled into the poolfanatics forum and tried to discuss shaft finishing techniques with the craftsmen from the philipines. One of them politely pointed out the severe differences of climate and why some of my techniques would not work there. I suggest that unless a cue were crafted for a specific climate it may not be as reliable. There is a proper tool for every job my departed Father always said! And cues are the tools of pool players! Just a thought...

I understand what you're trying to convey. You're saying that the right tool is the one made where it's going to be used. Unfortunately, there is a wide temperature and humidity swing in the North American Continent. I know so because I lived there for almost 14 years. Even as a cuemaker, I like owning different cue brands and not necessarily for collecting. I and a friend bought a cue from a Southern state maker while I lived in Las Vegas and in 3 moths it was already warped and my friend's cue's A-joint started rotating. So your statement becomes invalid as the technology or crafting skills that can be applied to make a cue "the right tool" for any place in that continent can also be applied by craftsmen from any place in the world.

Consumers in North America probably wouldn't have taken interest in other continents' products if their local products were made available at a comparable price.

I was just discussing this with a friend this afternoon. When CNC was made available to cuemakers, most just utilized it tospeed up work or make them be capable of inlaying designs that one would normally see in production cues. I told him that it's sad that the capability of such an advanced technology can't be used at its fullest. As an example, take 2 cuemakers. One has cnc inlaying capability and one who does the inlays by hand. If they were both given 3 hours to inlay a cue, the hand inlay guy will submit a design concept where the CNC guy will blurt out "I can do that in an hour"! What should have been exclaimed is "I can do a lot better than that design in 3 hours".

IMO, CNC aided custom cuemakers should be able to push the creative envelope and do things that'll differentiate them from factory-made cues.
 
monski said:
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I stand corrected. I was just trying to answer the first post which I thought centered on the idea of wood warping. I didn't concentrate on the "bang for the bucks" stuff. Of course, the best answer will come from the most experienced cuemakers. Thanks for the input.
It was and more "bang for the buck" is just now being introduced by you to that discussion. The focus was on quality cue-crafting and monetary value shouldn't enter into that equation when discussing cuecrafing at its purest form. It, cue-crafting, only ceases to be in its pure form when monetary value weigh-in on its inception.

You're welcome.
 
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Fish said:
Wow !!! Was there an earlier thread on Viatore that I dont know about ?.. you two seems to have something going here ?
LOL! We agree to disagree but that doesn't mean we can't get along. Actually, I was referring to your fishing expeditionn, nice try.
 
bandido said:
As an example, take 2 cuemakers. One has cnc inlaying capability and one who does the inlays by hand. If they were both given 3 hours to inlay a cue, the hand inlay guy will submit a design concept where the CNC guy will blurt out "I can do that in an hour"! What should have been exclaimed is "I can do a lot better than that design in 3 hours.

<the proverbial taps go here>

Kelly
 
I own a Via and paid top dollar for it with absolutely no complaints.I told Jackson what i wanted, he quoted me a price and i gave him the okay to make the cue for me.No haggeling,thats the way it should be.
 
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