Photographing Pool Tournaments

rickdf

rickdf

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What's the general consensus about taking photos at pool tournaments? I recently got a new DSLR and am looking to try it out. I want to start with areas that interest me and pool is certainly one.
I'm not looking for tips like keep your flash off but is it generally accepted to take pictures? Are there any copyright issues with taking pictures at a promoter's venue?
If there are copyright issues, would they likely be the same for the larger tournaments like the U.S. Open and DCC as well as the smaller tournaments like the BCAPL regional championships?




Rick
 
rickdf said:
What's the general consensus about taking photos at pool tournaments? I recently got a new DSLR and am looking to try it out. I want to start with areas that interest me and pool is certainly one.
I'm not looking for tips like keep your flash off but is it generally accepted to take pictures? Are there any copyright issues with taking pictures at a promoter's venue?
If there are copyright issues, would they likely be the same for the larger tournaments like the U.S. Open and DCC as well as the smaller tournaments like the BCAPL regional championships?




Rick
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I believe that if you are allowed to take photographs of an event, the pictures belong to you without further worry of copyright. The event will let you know where they stand on this when you show up with your camera for sure. If no photography is allowed and you sneak then it's another matter.

From experience I will tell you that even with a high ISO setting you need a pretty fast lens to take good photos in a pool environment. Zoom lens' are great but a decent f2.8 will set you back a ton. You're better off with a prime lens and let your own feet do the work. 85-105 mm range is a good length to use with a DSLR camera for pool as you can get nice close ups without having to invade anyone's space. Remember the DSLR crops the picture through the lens 40-50% so for instance with a Nikon, a 50mm lens takes equivalent to 75mm on a 35mm full frame camera. Lighting contrast between the table and the background can be a big problem too. Darker skinned people are tough to shoot compared to white folks if there's any of the lighting from the table in the photo. Especially with consumer level equipment.

Edit: If you look at these pictures from the Western BCA 8 ball last month you will see the results of trying to compensate for too slow of a lens with too much ISO. Most of the pictures are grainy with the background dark. http://www.kizoa.com/slideshow/d2473519kP34190474o4/2012-8-ball-championships-slideshow

Compare that to a picture taken in the same room with a 50mm f1.8 lens shown here http://s240.photobucket.com/albums/ff23/johnnybenz78/8 ball 2012/?action=view&current=_DSC4537.jpg and you can see the difference.
 
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The tournament operators will let you know right away if it's not OK, or if there are copyright issues. I use a Nikon D200 with 18-200 VR zoom, no flash, with a monopod...works great!
 
rayjay said:
The tournament operators will let you know right away if it's not OK, or if there are copyright issues. I use a Nikon D200 with 18-200 VR zoom, no flash, with a monopod...works great!
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I own that lens too but haven't had results I like much in pool rooms because it's really slow when zoomed. f5.6 or 6.0 @200 mm? I love that lens outdoors though. I guess a mono pod would help so you can slow the shutter as long as the subject doesn't move while the shutter is open. Unless of course you want to show the movement in the photo.
 
if your camera also has an auto focus assist LED light, turn it off too

shop for glass that's f/2.8 or better. you don't have to spend an arm and a leg. tamron makes pretty decent glass for less than 400.
 
metmot said:
I believe that if you are allowed to take photographs of an event, the pictures belong to you without further worry of copyright. The event will let you know where they stand on this when you show up with your camera for sure. If no photography is allowed and you sneak then it's another matter.

From experience I will tell you that even with a high ISO setting you need a pretty fast lens to take good photos in a pool environment. Zoom lens' are great but a decent f2.8 will set you back a ton. You're better off with a prime lens and let your own feet do the work. 85-105 mm range is a good length to use with a DSLR camera for pool as you can get nice close ups without having to invade anyone's space. Remember the DSLR crops the picture through the lens 40-50% so for instance with a Nikon, a 50mm lens takes equivalent to 75mm on a 35mm full frame camera. Lighting contrast between the table and the background can be a big problem too. Darker skinned people are tough to shoot compared to white folks if there's any of the lighting from the table in the photo. Especially with consumer level equipment.

Edit: If you look at these pictures from the Western BCA 8 ball last month you will see the results of trying to compensate for too slow of a lens with too much ISO. Most of the pictures are grainy with the background dark. http://www.kizoa.com/slideshow/d2473519kP34190474o4/2012-8-ball-championships-slideshow

Compare that to a picture taken in the same room with a 50mm f1.8 lens shown here http://s240.photobucket.com/albums/ff23/johnnybenz78/8 ball 2012/?action=view&current=_DSC4537.jpg and you can see the difference.
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Yeah it's definitely good to call and ask before. I'm not looking to sneak any pictures.
The lens my camera came with probably isn't the best (Sony DT55-200mm) but it should work for now. At least to play around with for a bit. I should probably find something else to take pictures of for the summer though. There's not much pool around here from June to September.
 
At the last SBE expo someone near me was taking pictures of late round matches and the shutter (I am guessing) made a significant amount of noise for a quiet room. I could tell that it bothered the players, especially when it went off while they were midstroke. It came off as pretty rude to me, and I would suggest taking the players into consideration as well.
 
nevermiss said:
At the last SBE expo someone near me was taking pictures of late round matches and the shutter (I am guessing) made a significant amount of noise for a quiet room. I could tell that it bothered the players, especially when it went off while they were midstroke. It came off as pretty rude to me, and I would suggest taking the players into consideration as well.
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I was watching a straight pool match on youtube from Derby City between Ralf Souquet and Mika Immonen and the room was real quiet. There were two people with SLR cameras with big lenses shooting pics right into the face of the shooters from table level about 8 feet from the end of the table in a door way. They were annoying me and I wasn't even playing. I have no doubt the shutters could be heard and they would raise the cameras and start shooting right as they were aiming. Didn't seem to effect the 2 pros playing though. Take a look at this thing at 34:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I0fQvPxPZU&feature=g-all-c&context=G2425777FAAAAAAAACAA And tell me that wouldn't be on your nerves.
 
RealLive said:
if your camera also has an auto focus assist LED light, turn it off too

shop for glass that's f/2.8 or better. you don't have to spend an arm and a leg. tamron makes pretty decent glass for less than 400.
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This is excellent advice. Many people think that all they have to do is turn off the flash and they are home free. Then they trigger the auto focus and a light beam turns on at the front of the camera. In that split second, you have made an enemy of the TD for ever.
If you make sure your camera doesn't have one of these irritating lights and you show the TD you know what your doing, you usually won't have a problem taking pictures at a tournament.

The tip about the f/2.8 glass is good too. To take pictures in low light with no flash, fast lenses are a must. However, I do disagree about shopping for glass with some of the off brand companies. These lenses are inconsistent at best.
Don't skimp on the glass. It is more important than the camera.
 
metmot said:
I own that lens too but haven't had results I like much in pool rooms because it's really slow when zoomed. f5.6 or 6.0 @200 mm? I love that lens outdoors though. I guess a mono pod would help so you can slow the shutter as long as the subject doesn't move while the shutter is open. Unless of course you want to show the movement in the photo.
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It's f3.5-5.6. Set it for arpeture priority @ 3.5 and frame tightly.
 
I suggest that you use a monopod. Even a cheap one can be a huge help when you are using relatively slow shutter speeds.
 
rayjay said:
It's f3.5-5.6. Set it for arpeture priority @ 3.5 and frame tightly.
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But it's only f3.5 at wide angle. Even on aperature priority it will close up as you zoom. When you get to 200 mm f5.6 is the widest it will go. That's why it was 700 bucks and a 70-200 f2.8 throughout the range is more than double.
 
metmot said:
I was watching a straight pool match on youtube from Derby City between Ralf Souquet and Mika Immonen and the room was real quiet. There were two people with SLR cameras with big lenses shooting pics right into the face of the shooters from table level about 8 feet from the end of the table in a door way. They were annoying me and I wasn't even playing. I have no doubt the shutters could be heard and they would raise the cameras and start shooting right as they were aiming. Didn't seem to effect the 2 pros playing though. Take a look at this thing at 34:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I0fQvPxPZU&feature=g-all-c&context=G2425777FAAAAAAAACAA And tell me that wouldn't be on your nerves.
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I looked at this video. That's not so bad -- the two photographers were almost out in the hallway. I believe the video is also zoomed a little, so it makes the photographers look closer than they actually are.

I take a ton of pool photos. Mostly with 80-200 lens, so I do not have to be real close. In fact I prefer to be maybe 15 feet away, preferably behind the first row of spectators, so I can shoot much more discreetly. Of course no flashes and no focus assist lights -- that is a given. Mainly I try to avoid sharking the players just the same way that any spectator should try to avoid -- i.e. avoiding sudden movements and sudden noises, especially when they are taking aim right towards me and my camera. Sometimes I miss a good photo because I don't want the 'click' in a quiet moment, or I refuse to jerk my camera up to my eye when it is obvious the player is aiming right my way. Ah well, but if you are patient, the shot might come around again and maybe next time, you will be ready :)

The pro players are pretty comfortable with the professional photographers at the major events -- they have to be because they are definitely close and impossible not to notice (like the two photogs in the video -- at least the one with the big Canon lens, because that is a pro lens for sure). The pro photogs are just doing their job. On the other hand, players might not necessarily be so fond of the amateurs -- especially if they are too noticeable.

Darker arenas make it easier for the photographer to be discreet, but harder to get good photos without a good lens because the playing area is so dark (except the direct canopy of light at the table). I like that dark background effect though -- if you get the right shot it really sets an ambiance.

You can see my stuff here:
http://www.poolinaction.com/
 
1pocket said:
I looked at this video. That's not so bad -- the two photographers were almost out in the hallway. I believe the video is also zoomed a little, so it makes the photographers look closer than they actually are.

I take a ton of pool photos. Mostly with 80-200 lens, so I do not have to be real close. In fact I prefer to be maybe 15 feet away, preferably behind the first row of spectators, so I can shoot much more discreetly. Of course no flashes and no focus assist lights -- that is a given. Mainly I try to avoid sharking the players just the same way that any spectator should try to avoid -- i.e. avoiding sudden movements and sudden noises, especially when they are taking aim right towards me and my camera. Sometimes I miss a good photo because I don't want the 'click' in a quiet moment, or I refuse to jerk my camera up to my eye when it is obvious the player is aiming right my way. Ah well, but if you are patient, the shot might come around again and maybe next time, you will be ready :)

The pro players are pretty comfortable with the professional photographers at the major events -- they have to be because they are definitely close and impossible not to notice (like the two photogs in the video -- at least the one with the big Canon lens, because that is a pro lens for sure). The pro photogs are just doing their job. On the other hand, players might not necessarily be so fond of the amateurs -- especially if they are too noticeable.

Darker arenas make it easier for the photographer to be discreet, but harder to get good photos without a good lens because the playing area is so dark (except the direct canopy of light at the table). I like that dark background effect though -- if you get the right shot it really sets an ambiance.

You can see my stuff here:
http://www.poolinaction.com/
Click to expand...

Really nice gallery. I assume your 80-200 is an f2.8? This really shows why a good fast lens is so desireable. I notice most of the nice dark background pics do not include the table surface which messes with the exposure of the whole photo. Do you do much post processing? If so what software do you use?
 
What you have will work to get familiar with photography in general. But more often than not your produced images are going to more like a snap shot than a professional / artistic photo. To get the best professional quality images you need top quality glass. Having a pro grade lens with apertures of 2.8 or lower is essential. Generally lens with an aperture of 2.8 are going to be zoom lenses, such as a 16-35mm, 24-70mm, or 70-200mm. Although you will also some prime lenses with 2.8 apertures and those can generally be gotten under $1000.00. But the zoom lenses in 2.8 will range from over $1,500.00 t0 $2,500.00.

If your go for primes you can get some 50mm & 85mm lenses in 1.4 and 1.8 apertures for under $500.00. When you get into primes with 1.2 or lower apertures then you get into the thousands of dollars for lens.

The best camera systems with the best quality lenses for DSLRs are Canon & NIkon. Sony comes in third, only for the fact their lens selection is considerably smaller then what Canon & Nikon offer.

I personally am a Canon shooter, and my main camera is the 7D and I use Canon's 70-200mm F2.8 L Mark II lens. Which is around $2,500.00. That's a great setup that will produce beautiful images.

Also, you want to make sure that you set your lens for the lowest possible aperture in order to produce the best bokeh. Or bluring of the background details so that the main focus of your subject is at its best in sharpness. A good monopod is a definite investment for what you want to do. I use and recommend Manfroto tripods, monopods, and ball heads. Figure to spend around $100 for a strong excellent Monopod.

Considering how long I have been playing I never really have gotten involved with really photographing pool action itself. For me, continuing to photograph the world's most beautiful women seems more enjoyable.
 
All I use to shoot photos is my Nikon D90 with a f1.8 50mm lens. I also have a 0.7 wideangle and 1.4 telephoto adapters (good Canon glass) that I can screw onto the lens. Works surprisingly well. Would love a 70-200 f2.8, but don't want to fork out the $'s. A mono-pod really helps too, but I wasn't using them in the photos below.

Here are a few pics taken at the BCA in Vegas with this setup;

Me breaking;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30757536@N08/5755389379/

Pop and stop!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30757536@N08/5755932800/

Archer jump shot;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30757536@N08/4663463975/

Friend playing in the open singles (he came 13th-16th btw);
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30757536@N08/4664083630/
 
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