Piloted or un-piloted ivory joint?

cscott67

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Has anyone ever made a piloted ivory joint/sleeve/collar? I have seen a lot of flat-faced joints with an ivory sleeve. I have a schon-style joint and was wondering if the collar can be swapped from stainless to ivory without any problems? (not sure if it is strong enough)

Thanks in advance for any help, Scott
 
Has anyone ever made a piloted ivory joint/sleeve/collar? I have seen a lot of flat-faced joints with an ivory sleeve. I have a schon-style joint and was wondering if the collar can be swapped from stainless to ivory without any problems? (not sure if it is strong enough)

Thanks in advance for any help, Scott

Szamboti made me an ivory jointed cue after a lot of begging. He didn't like ivory joints. To my surprise when I got the cue the joint was piloted. Billy Stroud made them that way as well. I sold that Szamboti after a few years to a guy called Russian Mike. I wish I had it now.
 
I don't use ivory but that's irrelevant, I've seen this done.
You can leave the steel collar in place and turn it's side-wall down to maybe .6875" od (11/16).
Keep a stream of cool air on the collar as you're turning it's side-wall to minimize heat. You don't want it coming loose at this point.
Once you have the side-wall reduced you can sleeve an ivory cylinder over it.
Several builders use a similar method to create a 'half-joint'.
 
YES, A lot of cue makers do it. I have a James White with 5/16-14 piloted
ivory joint.
 
I wouldn't mess with the cue if I were you. I don't see what you would gain. Having said that, I'm a fan of flat-face joints. I've had a number of cappped ivory jointed flat face cues over the years including a few very early Tim Scruggs, Gus Szamboti, and recently a few Ed Prewitt cues. I've come to learn that it isn't the ivory that is important for me, it's more the flat face/ big pin joint connection. Good luck.

Martin



Has anyone ever made a piloted ivory joint/sleeve/collar? I have seen a lot of flat-faced joints with an ivory sleeve. I have a schon-style joint and was wondering if the collar can be swapped from stainless to ivory without any problems? (not sure if it is strong enough)

Thanks in advance for any help, Scott
 
Thanks for the info KJ!

Jazznpool,
I realize it would have been better to start with the ivory joint from scratch. However, I have a cue that is the same exact dimensions as my previous cue except for weight and balance point. (schon-style ss joint and titanium pins)

My old cue butt weighs 15.25oz, and has a balance point 17.25inch from the face of the joint.
The new cue butt weighs 16.5oz and has a balance point 16.5inch from the face of the joint.

I would like to use a lighter material for the joint, which would also move the balance point back. I could change the joint to titanium, but that would only drop the weight by .5oz. (I could change the pin to glass, but I think that would yield even less of a change) If I switched to a phenolic sleeve I think the hit would be too soft. So, that is why I am asking about an ivory piloted joint.

I am already stuck 600, and the cue is made. (it is a full splice rosewood into tulip and looks great) I play with a 64inch cue and use the same shafts on both cues. I have tried (4 mos) to play with it the way it is and can't get used to it. (the cue has no value to anyone else) I don't mind spending a few hundred more to get it right. Thanks again for your suggestions, Scott
 
OK, I just figured-out that this is a continuation of your previous thread.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=144325

Except in this thread you didn't mention that your intent is to move the bal. pt.
IMO, it would have made more sense to continue your previous thread so everyone reading could stay on topic and have the benefit of knowing everything that has already been stated.
When you opened with 'the use of ivory for the joint', in this thread, I interpreted that to mean your goal was cosmetic. Ivory may or may not accomplish what you want. There are no guarantees with ivory. It's unstable, susceptible to cracking and can vary in wght.
But if ivory is what you want and you don't mind the cost or the other drawbacks, it should move your bal.pt.

I don't know who told you that a phenolic joint produces a soft hit but that's not true. Phenolic yields a firm/crisp hit and at the same time allows the wght. at the joint to be better managed. I see no sense in incorporating a pilot here. A flat-face with the woods that you have in this cue will provide all the 'hit' that a player could want.
I'm going to suggest that you have the stainless joint collar replaced with a 3/8" phenolic and your problem will be solved.
Your bal.pt. will be moved further back and you'll let the woods in the cue determine the hit rather than a steel joint.
It's my opinion that a steel joint does very little to enhance the hit and in many cases, it actually distorts it.
It's apparent to me that the woods chosen for your cue, "full-splice rosewood into tulipwood forearm", were chosen for a reason; a dense, firm natural hit. The stainless joint does not belong in this equation.

One thing that may be confusing for some is how you are measuring your bal.pt., eg, from the joint face down-ward. Most determine bal.pt. from the butt, up.

I truly hope that you find what you seek. Rosewood is heavy. You may end-up having that bored to lighten as well.
 
one of the best if not the best hitting cues ive ever owned
skip1.jpg
 
It's apparent to me that the woods chosen for your cue, "full-splice rosewood into tulipwood forearm", were chosen for a reason; a dense, firm natural hit. The stainless joint does not belong in this equation.

When good harmonics are the goal, I don't think metal ever belongs in the equation... JMO.
Mr H
 
Kj,

I'm not sure the intent was just to move the balance point. My original cue plays great! I was interested in a full-splice butt that would retain the same hit and feel of the original. (I wanted to keep using my shafts on either cue)

I knew that by using different wood it might be heavier and a little different, but I didn't think it would change the way it played so much. Well, to say the least I was quite suprised. So, after not being able to adjust to it I am looking for ways to make it play/feel similar. Hence the ideas for coring or changing the joint. I will not be able to use my shafts if I switch over to a flat-faced joint. So, that is out of the question. Thanks for the info on the phenolic vs ivory, I will discuss that with the cue smith.

Again, thanks for all the suggestions, Scott
 
An update for any interested parties.......

I went ahead and had Tony at Jackson cues change the stainless piloted joint to ivory. This one change lightened up the cue and moved the balance point closer to where it was on the old cue. The hit is softer/slightly than it was, and plays identical to the old cue.

Thanks for all the suggestions, Scott
 
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