Pin Size

JoeyInCali said:
More like a l_l shaped.
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One or two threads into the shaft and the shaft bore is located on the pin's minor diameter. 3/8-11 is what is on my newest cue and I really like this pin. It is like the best of both worlds, flat faced and piloted, all in one cue.

Tracy
 
billiardbum said:
Exactly...Remember that you and I might be able to get our pins to center perfectly (if there is such a thing), but the next guy cannot... This pin I use, and lots are using, makes it much easier. I have helped many customers that cannot get a traditional 3/8-10 pin to run true in the butt of a cue, to use the ball style pin, and accurately put in the butt of the cue.

Different strokes for different folks, but if it is not working for you, better change the way you are doing it.

Happy Holidays Mike.

Jim
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That's what this style pin offers the most of IMO, I use to have a hard time with the full threaded pins, and there are tricks to It that you just don't pickup in a open forum, and must learn for Yourself. I do not need the pin to be selfcentering, or the center hole anymore to center the pin perfectly, but I aggree It would make it alot easier for some, and at one time It would have helped me also. I was modifying My own pins with a center hole, and using a cup center on bullnoses without a center:D Funny thing I don't even use the tailstock anymore when I set full threaded pins.

Just My opinion here, but I aggree with Mike about the standard threads. The key to those are the correct size tap & bore to fit the pin. That's one thing I don't care much for with pre-made inserts, You have no control over bore size therefore can't underbore for a snug fit. With those I prefer a piloted joint, because that's about the only way to snug the joint at the bottom. Sometimes I'll just make My own inserts on flat face joints.
I had a Mic D cue that I used for breaking & ocasionaly a few racks of 9 ball now and then. I had that cue for many years, infact still do, just don't use it much anymore. I may have just gotton lucky, because It had nice snug threads, and never loosened up that I can recall. When I wore the shaft out, I made another, and It screws on snug from the bottom of the pin to the face of the joint. I have seen many makes that the joints loosened up on, and in alot of cases the joints needed refaced. I have seen many sloppy pins that did not lossen up during play, so altough the pin may sometimes be an issue, I don't feel that's always the case. Now when It comes to feel, that may be a different thing, and I would'nt argue that at all, because even with a standard 3/8 I prefer them snug with lots of surface contact anyhow.

We all have different experiences, and they tend to lead us to different conclusions, I don't feel any are wrong, just different. With that said I like these style pins and would have no issues using them also. There's nothing wrong with making things easier, and they are very nice looking pins on top of that. You guys really did a nice job in making them.:)

Greg
 
billiardbum said:
Exactly...Remember that you and I might be able to get our pins to center perfectly (if there is such a thing), but the next guy cannot... This pin I use, and lots are using, makes it much easier. I have helped many customers that cannot get a traditional 3/8-10 pin to run true in the butt of a cue, to use the ball style pin, and accurately put in the butt of the cue.

Different strokes for different folks, but if it is not working for you, better change the way you are doing it.

Happy Holidays Mike.

Jim
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Happy, happy to you also, It doesn't matter what pin I use, I still run the cue between centers with an indicator before the epoxy dries.
 
Michael Webb said:
Happy, happy to you also, It doesn't matter what pin I use, I still run the cue between centers with an indicator before the epoxy dries.
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tap,tap, tap
 
JoeyInCali said:
tap,tap, tap
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Bang! Bang! Maxwell's silver hammer came down upon her head Clang! Clang! Maxwell's silver hammer made sure that she was dead! :D :D :D
 
billiardbum said:
Actually, I am not suggesting anyone is doing anything wrong, I am just giving my opinions on the difference on the pins. McDermott 3/8-10 pin will come loose very often when playing with them. I have actually replaced collars that have been broken during a break, because the joint loosened during play. I personally do not like to use "V" bottom pins myself, because I like my pin to ride on a Bore of the pin, not on the actual tapped hole. This allows me to drill and bore the hole to exact size, and then tap the hole to my desired tightness. If the pin calls for .280 bore, that is where I would bore, not to .3125.

On the other hand I like the Radial pin, because you have a guided Pin when inserting in the butt of the cue. Also when you bore the hole in the shaft and butt, you have a guided tap to follow the bore.

Lastly... Reminds me of the post where I posted why I like the Ball pins to accurately place the pin, and the flat bottom pitch on the shaft side, to accurately bore the shaft... I do not believe you can accurately drill a hole, I believe you have to bore the hole to make a precise hole in the butt or shaft of the cue. This is where I personally want my Pin to ride on the butt and shaft of each cue I build. And with 11 pitch you definately get more force on the joint when tightened... Just opinions on my part... This is the pin I like to use, notice it is flat bottomed threads...

Newjointpinchoice.jpg
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This style of pin is the absolute nutty nuts...........no fuss, no muss!
Once the butt is positioned in the lathe for doing the mill work there is no need to check anything. It is DNS in the butt. The only way it won't be is if you did not set up the butt properly before the mill work. My pins don't even have a center hole in them. Don't need one.
 
BarenbruggeCues said:
My pins don't even have a center hole in them. Don't need one.
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A center hole in both ends can come in handy for repair jobs. I have replaced some fully threaded pins by drilling and tapping a hole in a piece of maple, then gluing in the pin. Cut the maple off at the back of the pin, and turn the maple down to .5 or so, (Depending on the bore (and/or pilot hole) in the forearm), then glue the pin and maple plug into the cue. This method makes a 5/16-14 or 18 pin DNS as well.
I little gob of wax in the centerhole at the back of the pin will keep the glue from fouling it.
 
Sheldon said:
A center hole in both ends can come in handy for repair jobs. I have replaced some fully threaded pins by drilling and tapping a hole in a piece of maple, then gluing in the pin. Cut the maple off at the back of the pin, and turn the maple down to .5 or so, (Depending on the bore (and/or pilot hole) in the forearm), then glue the pin and maple plug into the cue. This method makes a 5/16-14 or 18 pin DNS as well.
I little gob of wax in the centerhole at the back of the pin will keep the glue from fouling it.
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Never hurts to think outside the bubble sometimes!
 
How much runnout is acceptable? how DNS is DNS?:D

Seems Like I've heard some say under 5 thousands, but I've been trying to strive for better when Possible. Say My piece is dialed in at 3 thou., after installing My pin, whats the best I can expect If I indicate It?

By the way, I've heard some mention using rolling papers to shim with. I found that a 99cent pack of gift tissue worked pretty well on a ferrule job I just did, and you get alot more of It. I just cut mine in strips. It seems like you can get It in different thicknesses also. The pack I'm using now has paper that's alittle more ridgid then some, but it works well. Just thought with the holidays on the way, there may be plenty of It laying around, and some Might want to save theirs.:) Can't beat the price, since It's already paid for, and going to be trashed anyway.
 
Seems Like I've heard some say under 5 thousands

5 thousandths, where? :eek:
That's too much in the middle of the cue even.
 
Cue Crazy said:
How much runnout is acceptable? how DNS is DNS?:D

Seems Like I've heard some say under 5 thousands, but I've been trying to strive for better when Possible. Say My piece is dialed in at 3 thou., after installing My pin, whats the best I can expect If I indicate It?
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I guess that would depend on what the equipment you are using will allow.
With the butt in my lathe I try to get less than .0005 runout on both ends before I start the mill work for the butt to except the pin. So if I'm able to acheive this then I would think the pin is going to run plenty true enough that I shouldn't have problems if the joint and shaft faces are shaved off properly. I guess that would be close enough for me to call it DNS.
5 thou runout before starting the mill work= problems, IMO ....3 thou, still a little loose..........but sometimes it might have to work unless you want to just scrap it and go back to the drawing pad. I guess it comes down to whatever each builder is comfortable with and what their equipment will allow for their tolerences.
 
BarenbruggeCues said:
With the butt in my lathe I try to get less than .0005 runout on both ends
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BAM! Now we're talking! When accuracy counts, you should be getting things as close to dead nuts as possible. I like your style, my friend.
 
Wow:eek: , maybe I mistated that, just to clarify- so .003 is considered loose? Is It even possible to get under.001 with wood in between cuts and resting? I can see fresh cut/turned having minimal runout, but what about a piece that has been resting? also It seems like the texture & porus nature of the wood would make it hard to get that close, even If not counting the actual amount of runout in the piece it'self or any that may be in the equipment (depending on setup).
I can still barely see some runout by eye at .005, but when I get down to .003 or under It's really hard to see anything at all. .003 or under is My preference, but sometimes It seems that I'm lucky to get much below that, whether It's a ferrule or a forearm. I guess I need to set My standards alittle higher:confused: I was under the impression that I was well within the exceptable range from what I've read or heard. Time to tighten the ship I suppose.:)



Joey- funny you should mention the middle, I'm working on one with the chainlink at the handle joint also:eek:, so I need that running really tight. I got the ringwork on the forearm all faced to the pin and the centerhole, now I have to decide how I want to glue It to the handle & indicate. I'm now trying to decide whether to do It out of the jaws or between centers. I'm swaying toward between centers, since that's what I'll be cutting off of when I trim.
 
BarenbruggeCues said:
I guess that would depend on what the equipment you are using will allow.
With the butt in my lathe I try to get less than .0005 runout on both ends before I start the mill work for the butt to except the pin. So if I'm able to acheive this then I would think the pin is going to run plenty true enough that I shouldn't have problems if the joint and shaft faces are shaved off properly. I guess that would be close enough for me to call it DNS.
5 thou runout before starting the mill work= problems, IMO ....3 thou, still a little loose..........but sometimes it might have to work unless you want to just scrap it and go back to the drawing pad. I guess it comes down to whatever each builder is comfortable with and what their equipment will allow for their tolerences.
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.003 runout at the "A" Joint will not work for me either...I like it about .001 of an inch. I also like to dial in joint and end to end about .0005, Dave your right on... Dave your always right, maybe that is why you get the big bucks huh ;)
 
Cue Crazy said:
Wow:eek: , maybe I mistated that, just to clarify- so .003 is considered loose? Is It even possible to get under.001 with wood in between cuts and resting? I can see fresh cut/turned having minimal runout, but what about a piece that has been resting? also It seems like the texture & porus nature of the wood would make it hard to get that close, even If not counting the actual amount of runout in the piece it'self or any that may be in the equipment (depending on setup).
I can still barely see some runout by eye at .005, but when I get down to .003 or under It's really hard to see anything at all. .003 or under is My preference, but sometimes It seems that I'm lucky to get much below that, whether It's a ferrule or a forearm. I guess I need to set My standards alittle higher:confused: I was under the impression that I was well within the exceptable range from what I've read or heard. Time to tighten the ship I suppose.:)



Joey- funny you should mention the middle, I'm working on one with the chainlink at the handle joint also:eek:, so I need that running really tight. I got the ringwork on the forearm all faced to the pin and the centerhole, now I have to decide how I want to glue It to the handle & indicate. I'm now trying to decide whether to do It out of the jaws or between centers. I'm swaying toward between centers, since that's what I'll be cutting off of when I trim.
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What are you using to indicate your rounds with? Also, by the time you are putting the pin in the butt you should be able to indicate on the joint collar. But this goes back to how you are cutting the rounds also. If your not getting a very smooth cut it is going to be hard to get an accurate reading. The needle will be fluttering all over place. Are you using a tru-set type chuck? You can get different types of points for the indicators also. Get a flat one instead of a rounded one.
I just use a cheapy Mitutoyo that reads .0001 needle movement for my set up. (maybe Santa will get me an Interapid this year)
Again it really is just what your comfortable with for tolerences. But I will say this.......the tighter they are = better end results.

If you face both the handle and the forearm off between centers before gluing them you should get a happy end result with very minimal movement, if any. Don't over tighten them!
 
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Joey- funny you should mention the middle, I'm working on one with the chainlink at the handle joint also, so I need that running really tight. I got the ringwork on the forearm all faced to the pin and the centerhole, now I have to decide how I want to glue It to the handle & indicate.

Superglue one portion of bare wood and fine sand it.
Indicate from that.
I do that since I don't like C rings ( or B as some would call it ).
 
billiardbum said:
.003 runout at the "A" Joint will not work for me either...I like it about .001 of an inch. I also like to dial in joint and end to end about .0005, Dave your right on... Dave your always right, maybe that is why you get the big bucks huh ;)
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Hmm, you got a collet closer lathe?
 
BarenbruggeCues said:
What are you using to indicate your rounds with? Also, by the time you are putting the pin in the butt you should be able to indicate on the joint collar. But this goes back to how you are cutting the rounds also. If your not getting a very smooth cut it is going to be hard to get an accurate reading. The needle will be fluttering all over place. Are you using a tru-set type chuck? You can get different types of points for the indicators also. Get a flat one instead of a rounded one.
I just use a cheapy Mitutoyo that reads .0001 needle movement for my set up. (maybe Santa will get me an Interapid this year)
Again it really is just what your comfortable with for tolerences. But I will say this.......the tighter they are = better end results.

If you face both the handle and the forearm off between centers before gluing them you should get a happy end result with very minimal movement, if any. Don't over tighten them!
Click to expand...




I have the round end, and My indicator is just a cheapo dial, even your mitutoyo is high class to me ;) :p That would explain alot to me thinking back now. Thanks


The scroll on My chuck needs to be deburred again, but after what you guys said, I wanted to do some shimming and see what I could get. I was just able to get a handle dialed in at between .001-.002, so I guess that's pretty safe, especially If My indicator tip could be causing some of it as you mentioned. I'm still using a lightweight machine also, and thinking I'm probably lucky to get that close. I dry screwed the forearm on to the handle, dialed the ringwork in that was glued, faced, and trimmed onto that, and got the same reading as the handle, so I must have My handle pin centered well.

Your correct about the collar running smoother.


Still If you guys are getting .001 or under on any material I'm impressed, no matter how solid the machine or true your chucks are;) :)

Thanks, Greg C
 
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