Pivot vs parrallel

[SpiderWebComm]

I think people are interpreting parallel english differently. For me, I shift parallel, then adjust by feel for deflection. I call this parallel english. To me, this sounds like the same thing as using both FHE and BHE.

BTW, I experimented with using pure parallel with no adjustment, pure FHE and pure BHE. My end result was pure FHE was the best of the 3, but not as good as what I call parallel english with an adjustment.

All english requires some kind of adjustment. Some more than others.

My point in a previous post was when some people say they use parallel english, they believe they aim where they would with center and move to their english position. Even though many players perceive that and play really well, their movement isn't (and can't) be parallel regardless of what shaft is used.

Of course parallel english can work with alignment / sighting adjustments. Sometimes that adjustment is extreme -- sometimes not (depends on the shaft).

I've tried numerous shafts / techniques over the years and I find BHE to have the least amount of adjustment (by far) compared to LD shafts paired with other english methods. Now, a lot of that has to do with my shaft/bridge length.

So, BHE, FHE and Parallel (w/ alignment compensation) all work and some better than others. It all depends on the shaft used as well as bridging technique (distance, etc).

**** You can use a regular maple shaft with BHE and experience less (NET) deflection than a Predator if you master your BHE technique.

 

[ronscuba]

Maybe I call it parallel english because both the front and back hand are moving. Having previously never heard of BHE or FHE, parallel is the best word to describe what I do.

 

[scottjen26]

Yea, the key is are both the front and back hands moving the same amount?


Dave is correct - tough to aim at the true ghost ball (however you get there) and then make a pure parallel movement to apply english and still make the ball except at reasonable speeds and shorter distances (where the margin for error to the pocket is higher). Without other adjustments that is, then as Scott said (and as I too used to do) obviously it works, just a lot of learned guesswork on the amount of adjustments to make. A lot of people that think they parallel are actually moving one hand or the other a bit more, turning it into FHE or BHE or some combination.

Pure parallel techniques do work pretty well with the lowest deflection shafts (like my Predator Z2) but still only at what I would call normal speeds, distances, and amount of spin. Anything outside of this still requires FHE or BHE.

I tested this extensively a while ago, with a variety of shots and speeds, and had a rude awakening when trying the same shots out with a 314-2. While also a LD shaft, it was much more conducive to BHE, even on slower or shorter shots, parallel worked very little if at all. I can shoot well with either one, just have to be conscious of what adjustments need to be made, and because of the increased length of time I spent with the Z2 I can "feel" my way into the adjustments when necessary much better than with the 314-2, but that would come with more experience with it as well. I shot with a standard Schon shaft for years and did pretty well with my guesstimating method of adjustments, long before I knew about any sort of systematic adjustments. But I do like the confidence I have when I'm able to apply proven systematic adjustments starting from a center ball hit on most of the shots that come up that require english.

Scott

 

[ronscuba]

Yea, the key is are both the front and back hands moving the same amount?......

Scott

No, they move a different amount. That's the adjustment I make. So technically, not pure parallel, but I bet many people call it parallel.

 

[Scott Lee]

Dave...Aiming is perceptual, so it is individual (as we all perceive differently). Whether someone makes subtle or distinct physical or mental adjustments, to compensate for squirt doesn't matter. It's more about the individual's perception of what happens (some of this is definitely physical, due to differences in shafts, etc). That said, it's just not true that you can't use ghost ball aiming, and parallel shift to achieve accurate sidespin compensation. If I'm understanding your posts correctly, you're saying it is, and that BHE is a better way to compensate...which is an opinion, not a fact. That's the only point I was trying to make.

I like you, and respect you...and your knowledge. I enjoy your contributions to 'aiming' threads, but I would like it if you would temper your thoughts with "in my experience", as opposed to "this is the way it is", when there are clearly other ways to accomplish the same goal.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

All english requires some kind of adjustment. Some more than others.

My point in a previous post was when some people say they use parallel english, they believe they aim where they would with center and move to their english position. Even though many players perceive that and play really well, their movement isn't (and can't) be parallel regardless of what shaft is used.

Of course parallel english can work with alignment / sighting adjustments. Sometimes that adjustment is extreme -- sometimes not (depends on the shaft).

I've tried numerous shafts / techniques over the years and I find BHE to have the least amount of adjustment (by far) compared to LD shafts paired with other english methods. Now, a lot of that has to do with my shaft/bridge length.

So, BHE, FHE and Parallel (w/ alignment compensation) all work and some better than others. It all depends on the shaft used as well as bridging technique (distance, etc).

**** You can use a regular maple shaft with BHE and experience less (NET) deflection than a Predator if you master your BHE technique.

 

[ronscuba]

UPDATE: In between games while my playing partner was in the bathroom, I shot a few minutes with my break cue (non LD shaft) using BHE. It worked very well. I was surprised how well it worked and how quick/easy it was to use. I definitely need to give BHE another try, but this time with a standard maple non LD shaft.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Dave...Aiming is perceptual, so it is individual (as we all perceive differently). Whether someone makes subtle or distinct physical or mental adjustments, to compensate for squirt doesn't matter. It's more about the individual's perception of what happens (some of this is definitely physical, due to differences in shafts, etc). That said, it's just not true that you can't use ghost ball aiming, and parallel shift to achieve accurate sidespin compensation. If I'm understanding your posts correctly, you're saying it is, and that BHE is a better way to compensate...which is an opinion, not a fact. That's the only point I was trying to make.

I like you, and respect you...and your knowledge. I enjoy your contributions to 'aiming' threads, but I would like it if you would temper your thoughts with "in my experience", as opposed to "this is the way it is", when there are clearly other ways to accomplish the same goal.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

In my humble opinion, if someone truly aims to the center of the ghost ball at their aim point and truly parallels to their english position (regardless of the shaft), they're going to miss a whole lot of shots. Striking a sphere anywhere other than its core will inevitably generate some level of squirt regardless of shaft used. There's no such thing as a zero-squirt shaft (assuming a perpendicular angle of attack into the CB). It's impossible, physically. Therefore, you're never aiming at the base of the ghost ball with true parallel offsets.

We're splitting hairs here because I don't believe anyone "truly" parallels as they think or as you say, perceive.

Dave

 

[Jaden]

It only works partially...

I'm going back in time, now, but I clearly remember Nick Varner being a strong advocate of moving the cue parallel to apply sidespin. I never stood directly behind him to see if he actually did that, but he claimed that he did. If so, it seemed to work for him.

It won't work without aim adjustment, or with a LD shaft. The reason that LD shafts are so beneficial is that they allow minimum adjustment for side spin. So for a lot of closer shots you can parallel shift and with decent sized pockets, still make the ball.

BHE won't work well for most people if they use a LD shaft. This is because of the pivot point.

All shafts have a different pivot point, that is, a place on the shaft where if you pivot for BHE from that point, the squirt directly cancels the angle shift.

Chip Klein was a huge advocate for using BHE, as is Efren. Efren was who taught it to me back in 99, he didn't talk about pivot point, I learned that later.

Actually, I didn't even listen to Efren when he showed it to me. It was three years later while talking to Chip that I started using it.

Jaden

 

[Jaden]

Dave I promise you that's not the case.

In my humble opinion, if someone truly aims to the center of the ghost ball at their aim point and truly parallels to their english position (regardless of the shaft), they're going to miss a whole lot of shots. Striking a sphere anywhere other than its core will inevitably generate some level of squirt regardless of shaft used. There's no such thing as a zero-squirt shaft (assuming a perpendicular angle of attack into the CB). It's impossible, physically. Therefore, you're never aiming at the base of the ghost ball with true parallel offsets.

We're splitting hairs here because I don't believe anyone "truly" parallels as they think or as you say, perceive.

Dave

With a GOOD LD shaft, you will make the majority of shots 3 feet and under (CB to OB distance) using parallel english... Some adjustment is necessary for longer shots.

Try it sometime, although it may be difficult to trust that you are on the right line...

Jaden

 

[tim913]

I had a problem a couple of years ago that someone resolved for me on this forum. When I used inside enlish I had to allow for deflection, when I used outside english I did not. I found that I naturally use backhand english when using outside english, and parallel when using inside. Mystery solved, but it was weird until I figured it out, or should I say someone else figured it out for me.

 

[luckwouldhaveit]

I like you, and respect you...and your knowledge. I enjoy your contributions to 'aiming' threads, but I would like it if you would temper your thoughts with "in my experience", as opposed to "this is the way it is", when there are clearly other ways to accomplish the same goal.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

You might try doing the same. In my experience, what you're saying is wrong. I use parallel english by the way. Really it is just "pre-applied" english that works out the same way as if I were to backhand or fronthand it. One advantage of pivoting is your bridge length can be used a point of reference to help compensate for the speed of the shot, in my experience.

 

[Ratta]

You might try doing the same. In my experience, what you're saying is wrong. I use parallel english by the way. Really it is just "pre-applied" english that works out the same way as if I were to backhand or fronthand it. One advantage of pivoting is your bridge length can be used a point of reference to help compensate for the speed of the shot, in my experience.

Perhaps you should read Spidey s and Scott s posting again. Then think about your answer again,

lg
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