play safe or shoot?
- Thread starter thall
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definitely no shortage of guys running tables endlessly on youtube if that's what you're looking for. That gets boring to me real quick.
If running racks to you is "boring", then maybe you haven't ran "enough" racks in a row to make it "exciting".
To me, the "excitement" is to see just "how many" someone can string.
It is like the 526 by Mosconi...everybody wants to see how far past that someone can go.
Aloha.
8 ball is safe ball
You better get used to doing it to the point you do it the most right you can. Play some one pocket and you will understand the power behind it.
I played a guy the same way the only way to counter that is to do the same.
You better get used to doing it to the point you do it the most right you can. Play some one pocket and you will understand the power behind it.
I played a guy the same way the only way to counter that is to do the same.
Don't take it so literally. The point is most people aren't going to like their draw in a tournament if it's SVB. Your goal as a player should be to make people dislike playing you, from a competitive standpoint, not socially.
I don't mind defense and playing safe, but I'm not a fan of the way safeties are used in most matches today. You can be in the midst of your run, you make an error that gets you way out of shape, so a safe is used like a get out of jail free card. The fact that you can be REWARDED FOR making A MISTAKE and just play a safety to get ball in hand does not seem fair to the opposing player.
I much prefer safeties to have a bit more strategy behind them. So it's not about putting the CB in a virtually impossible position, but rather an unfavorable position due to your opponents weaknesses (such as jumps, kicks, masse, etc.), but something that would be favorable for you. Safeties should be played similarly as push outs. You shouldn't be able to stick your opponent in a spot you couldn't get out of either.
I think safeties today also rob players and spectators of some spectacular shot making, which is what really entertains people. But that's just me...
I much prefer safeties to have a bit more strategy behind them. So it's not about putting the CB in a virtually impossible position, but rather an unfavorable position due to your opponents weaknesses (such as jumps, kicks, masse, etc.), but something that would be favorable for you. Safeties should be played similarly as push outs. You shouldn't be able to stick your opponent in a spot you couldn't get out of either.
I think safeties today also rob players and spectators of some spectacular shot making, which is what really entertains people. But that's just me...
You are the type of player that money players would fight over to play LOL. There was a match where Buddy Hall was commentating a match with a Japanese player, his co-commentator said how his play style did not involve safeties. Buddy asked "do they play for money over there"? "No" "Well when they do, they'll start to play safe".
Every time I've heard someone say a safe was a "sissy" shot, they also had no idea how to use a bridge and that was also a "sissy stick". They also could not run 2 balls unless both were hanging.
This is much better than the "safes are for sissys" argument, and I think it deserves some discussion. I'm going to assume you are talking about 9-ball.
I may be wrong, but it seems to me you have little respect for the skill involved in executing good safeties. Getting rewarded for making a mistake is when you shit in a ball, or you miss a ball and unintentionally hook your opponent.
Safeties, on the other hand, add a different dynamic to the game, can be just as difficult, if not more difficult than making a ball, and this strategy is available to both players.
The player that is able to avoid safeties and run out is rewarded by never giving their opponent a chance at the table. The players that have to play safe more will lose more in the long run, because they are letting their opponent to the table more. If they don't execute the safety properly, or if their opponent is able to play a safe back, or if their opponent comes with a good/lucky shot, it will backfire.
It's not a "get out of jail free card" because A) you are intentionally giving up your turn at the table and letting your opponent shoot, B) most of the time your safety isn't going to be good enough to where your opponent doesn't have an easy jump/kick, or an easy safety reply, and C) if you mess up the safety, you are handing the game to your opponent.
Beyond that, as a spectator, a great safety is just as exciting to me as making a great shot. I love to see more strategy and dynamics to the game than just shot making.
EDIT: Here's another way to think about it, from a skill and spectators point of view. If people didn't play safe, then you wouldn't get to see some of the amazing kick/bank/jump shots people come up with to get out of jail after their opponent played a good safe.
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The OP must have been playing me.
There are several things that go into the thought process before taking a shot one of which is how likely are you to run out or put me in a bad spot if I miss. If I chose to take a normally low percentage shot I really need to be feeling "it" when I know the smart thing is to play a safe and play for the next opportunity. When I coach a lower rated player I know how much they love to make balls, but one thing I'll always tell them, don't be afraid to play safe, if you get 6 or 7 BIH per game you should be the winner
There are several things that go into the thought process before taking a shot one of which is how likely are you to run out or put me in a bad spot if I miss. If I chose to take a normally low percentage shot I really need to be feeling "it" when I know the smart thing is to play a safe and play for the next opportunity. When I coach a lower rated player I know how much they love to make balls, but one thing I'll always tell them, don't be afraid to play safe, if you get 6 or 7 BIH per game you should be the winner
You focused in on my comment about how I don't think it's right but I don't think you understood my point in safeties being more strategic and more like pushes. I do appreciate the skillsets involved in playing safe. I also play safeties like anyone else, don't get me wrong. But when we're talking about higher skill levels, not even pro, but advanced amateurs, placing the CB in a spot that can't be jumped, kicked or anything, is not always a high skill shot...and the reward is ball in hand...for advanced players? BIH for them is automatic run out. Just too simple. Do you get what I'm saying? I would also argue that we'd get more creative kicks, jumps, and banks if safeties were not an option. :grin:
In pretty much every sport, defense wins games, no question. But defense seldom, if ever, wins fans. That's why every pro sport reinvents itself for more offense. And why low scoring sports don't usually fare too well with spectators. Scoring = progress. Purists tend to appreciate defense and other subtleties more, but they aren't the majority.
This is why "I" prefer "two foul" to one-foul.
I would also get rid of jump cues, but that is just "me".
I prefer "old school" pool for both playing and watching.
To each, their own.
Aloha.
I don't mind variety in pool. For me, things don't always have to be the same, all the time. I find enjoyment in all the variations.
Two foul is a great way to play, imo. I also prefer "old school" pool for watching, but admittedly, I am old school...so no surprise there. :wink:
You mean "How do you guys feel about winning?"
If the safe wins, play it.
If the shot wins, play it.
I'm new to pool but my impression has been that the objective is to win. In my short pool career I've made a lot of wrong assumptions; maybe this is one of them.
Having played strictly in bars off and on for 30 odd years I had the same opinion as you...until I joined leagues. Even then it was over a year before my hard head finally started accepting defense az an acceptable strategy.
Now I am gonna give you the best advice you will ever get on this subject. If you can not run out...play safe
Thats sorta my feelings as well. I realize there are times when a safe is the best choice. However I'm not talking about where a guy has a very difficult shot to continue his run. I'm talking about a guy who has a very easy shot but refuses to take it because its easier to play a safe to shut down the other player. Recently played a buddy and here's what I'm talking about.
I got two solids touching each other just a tad off the rail about 5-6inches from the corner pocket. The eight is out in the middle of the table. I've shot my ball off his ball in the side pocket without calling the kiss. We call kisses so its a bad shot, his turn to shoot. The cue ball is 6 inches off the rail and about 1 foot up from the botton rail. He has a easy 13 ball over in the corner pocket and the perfect angle to roll up table where all his remaining balls are. Instead of making the simple cut shot on the 13 in the corner and rolling up table he calls bank the 13 in the side. I'm like what. He shoots, draws low on the cue. The 13 misses the side pocket by 2 feet but the cue ball draws back, hits the bottom rail and rolls right in behind my two touching balls, maybe a 1/2 inch from touching them. He smiles and says your shot. He has played a great safe, almost. I tap the cue just hard enought to bump one of my balls into the rail and back off maybe a 1/4inch. The cue is now buried and touching against the back ball. He can't go up table, he can't go across table. The only thing he can do is shoot straight into the bottom rail and back out. Whats he do, he shoots the cue into my two balls scattering them up table. I automaticly get ball in hand and clear out the table. I asked why didn't you shoot the 13 in the corner, it was a easy shot plus you would had got position up table. He says it was easier to play safe. I said but you gave me ball in hand after hitting my balls. He says who's to say where they might have landed, heck you may have missed too. I said well your safe backfired didn't it. He says its part of the game. Funniest part of all had he shot that 13 in the corner I'd be racking instead of him,
This is about the way safeties are played today, not how you wish they were played, so that's what I chose to address. Pushes take slightly more thought than current safeties, but require no skill to execute, and would thus be more boring for spectators.
Well I like how you reduced the conversation to a very specific skill level. Anyway, your perception of safeties is way off. Do you realize how often a safety results in a shot that "can't be jumped, kicked or anything"? That's less than one percent of safeties at best. You are really focusing in on the rarest possible situations here. But yes you're right that sometimes the position might make it easy to hook your opponent, but that in no way translates to instant BIH. Good amateurs also know how to jump and kick well.
You're going to need to elaborate here. It's your contention that you shouldn't be able to intentionally put the cue ball in a really difficult spot that you yourself would not be able to hit the object ball. If that's the case, there will be far less situations where these extremely difficult and creative shots are necessary. They would otherwise only come up unintentionally after someone missed a shot and got lucky.
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What's good for spectators and what's good for players are two entirely different things. I'm not playing pool for the spectators, nor am I interested in dumbing the game down to attract more spectators.