*Player of the decade*

[Gatz]

Here are a couple things that really stand out to me with Ralf against Efren. I really only consider the World Pool Championships and the US open the cream of the crop of pool tournaments, because in the WPC you have the very best from every country, single elimination. It's by far the #1 tournament every pro pool player wants to win (the 10ball is taking over now though). The US Open, is open to anyone and the fields are super tough (not as tough as the WPC IMO) but doesn't have all the top asian players there.

Efren hasn't really touched either one of these two tournaments in the last decade. It always seems when the fields have every player from around the world he never does well. Thats not to say that he doesn't, it's just the Kaiser seems to do it more often and more consistent then Efren does. Not to mention that every new year there are more and more high calibre players that can win these tournaments and the level of play goes up a notch. So getting to the finals this many times in a span of 10 years is amazing. Ralf just keeps raising his game.

Ralf 2001 WPC Finals
Ralf 2006 WPC Finals
Ralf 2002 US Open Finals (won)
Ralf 2009 US Open Finals
Ralf 2008 Damas World 8 ball championships Finals (won)

Getting to the finals, this many times in these two tournaments, over a span of 10 years, is super impressive, especially the WPC.

 

[Celtic]

Kinda like a boxer who is losing the round at 2 minutes and 45 seconds but in the last 15 seconds of the round comes in and lands a pile of punches-that can sway a judge because it just happened.

Not going to find a better example anywhere.

 

[Celtic]

I really only consider the World Pool Championships and the US open the cream of the crop of pool tournaments, because in the WPC you have the very best from every country, single elimination. It's by far the #1 tournament every pro pool player wants to win (the 10ball is taking over now though). The US Open, is open to anyone and the fields are super tough (not as tough as the WPC IMO) but doesn't have all the top asian players there.

<snip>

Getting to the finals, this many times in these two tournaments, over a span of 10 years, is super impressive, especially the WPC.

I don't know, this tournament was not exactly a pushover field. It was hyped as the biggest tournament ever at the time. It had a field better then your average US-Open IMO, and equal to that of a World 9-ball championship. Efren won it.

http://www.azbilliards.com/thepros/2000showtourney2001.php?eventnum=153

Look at the list of players in this thing. Look deep, Chin Shun Yang is low, Fong Pang Chou, Ortmann, Nick Van De Berg, Ralf is there, Phillipinos, it is a list of whose who in pool, true international field at least as tough as a US-Open. Efren got 2nd.

http://www.azbilliards.com/thepros/2000showtourney2002.php?eventnum=52

Since you posted a world 8-ball championship. Efren won one too. World class field of course.

http://www.azbilliards.com/thepros/2000showtourney2004.php?eventnum=207

Pool has never gotten tougher then this field. Every bit as talented a field as a worlds and a brutal format. Efren won it.

http://www.azbilliards.com/thepros/2000showtourney2006.php?eventnum=208

And it really irks me to mention it because I don't find it fair that anyone in the world could not play in these things but look at these fields. Efren won a bloody slew of these things, against the guys that tend to terrify the rest of the world come WPC time and that the world breaths a sigh of relief over every time they pass on making the trip to the US Open. I mean, everyone from the Phillipines, Wu, Yang, Kuo, Chou, ect... These are just the ones he won, no 2nd's here.

http://www.azbilliards.com/thepros/2000showtourney2004.php?eventnum=42
http://www.azbilliards.com/thepros/2000showtourney2004.php?eventnum=58
http://www.azbilliards.com/thepros/2000showtourney2004.php?eventnum=101
http://www.azbilliards.com/thepros/2000showtourney2003.php?eventnum=115
http://www.azbilliards.com/thepros/2000showtourney2005.php?eventnum=114
http://www.azbilliards.com/thepros/2000showtourney2006.php?eventnum=213
http://www.azbilliards.com/thepros/2000showtourney2006.php?eventnum=127

To say Efren did not take out some truly monster fields and get some big wins in the 2000's, I cannot agree with that. The IPT win is bigger then a WPC IMO, everyone was in dead stroke for that one since the money was 10 times a WPC first place, that thing brought bloody Ronnie O'Sullivan to pool for abit. The Tokyo event is a WPC class event easily and everyone took a shot at the $160,000.

I mean if you go on JUST US-Opens and WPC you are back to Mika TBH, he won two US-Opens, got 2nd in one. Won a worlds 9-ball, won a worlds 10-ball. On only those two events he outplayed Ralf. So how do you want it, Mika wins because all we care about are those events? Or Efren wins because we broaden the scope? You cannot cherry pick the events that matter depending on which player you are comparing Ralf too, seriously.

 

[Gatz]

Ralf has done it consistently better over the years, Mika did it in 2 years. Id rather take Ralf's performances over 10 years than Mika's.

Like I said that is what stands out to me are those two major tournaments. It's just my own opinion and you're not going to convince everyone in here that Efren is the man.

 

[Celtic]

Ralf has done it consistently better over the years, Mika did it in 2 years. Id rather take Ralf's performances over 10 years than Mika's.

If you are talking about JUST those Us-Opens and WPC tournaments in this decade then no, he has not. Mika has flat out outplayed him in those two specific events.

If you are broadening out to other events? Then you are cherry picking the data based on Mika being the comparison, forget Mika if you are going to do that, Efren has outplayed Mika and Ralf both in the broad range of pool events over the decade by a long shot, it is not even close.

You cannot say

"well for Efren and Ralf I am going to specifically look at the WPC and US Opens and ignore all the other events and say Ralf palyed better then Efren in those two events so he wins the player of the decade over Efren"

and then go

"well Mika played better in the WPC and US-Opens this decade, but in this case I am going to look beyond those events and say Ralf played better overall in ALL events of the decade so he wins player of the decade over Mika"

As I said, that is cherry picking the data to suit your bias in the matter, and you are not at all subtle about doing it either.

 

[OPQ]

I think it's clearly Efren who should have the title. According to many posters he won the most money playing against the best. Now what's a better measure of success?

What about respect among peers? Efren is our man once again. To me it would be freaky to have Efren not win Player of the Decade at least once. And I think it's now or never.

 

[RED NAXELA]

Efren hasn't really touched either one of these two tournaments in the last decade. It always seems when the fields have every player from around the world he never does well.


The first statement is true. Efren has not won a WPC or US Open 9ball this decade, he won both in the 90's. Clearly, Ralf and Mika beat him, in this respect, this decade.

The second statement is the most laughable in this thread. The 2001 Tokyo 9ball and the three IPT tournaments, which happen to be the four biggest pool tournaments in terms of prize money, probably drew the strongest international field in the history of the sport. Efren, Ralf, and Mika played in all four, and Efren won three of them!

 

[cueman]

Im gonna blindside everybody...

because the answer to this is very simple....

the correct answer to the question "player of the Decade"

Is


Allison Fisher

period.


She dominated the womans tour for the decade
Best womans player Hands Down EVER.
Shes the Tiger woods of Womans Pool
its not even disputable.

none of the mens players on that list have dominated in mens pool
the way Fisher dominated womans pool

If you started counting ten years from when she came over here that would be true. But she has not totally dominated this decade. She might have an edge on Karen Corr and others this decade.

 

[cueman]

Can anyone find Billiards Digest and Pool and Billiard's Players of the Year for each year. Maybe that should be a consideration. If someone won 4 or 5 of them maybe they get it.

 

[The Saw]

All the talk about Ralf and Mika, what about Johnny "Mr. Consistency" Archer? Cory had his run early in the decade, Shane had his reign, Mika has had his as of late, and sure Ralf has one thoughout the decade but Johnny has year in, year out consistently kept winning big tournaments every year.....

 

[The Saw]

Souqet

Souqet..........

 

[The Saw]

Mika

Mika............

 

[cueman]

Based on prize money through 2008 Mika, Ralf and Johnny are all pretty even. Efren wins if we just count the cash. I still wish we could get the player of the year winners for the major magazines for 2000 - 2008.

 

[gunzby]

I really wanted to vote for Archer as he is certainly in the top picks, but Ralph is definitely the hands down winner. Mika is no doubt player of the year again, but Ralph is also no doubt player of decade.

 

[gunzby]

All the talk about Ralf and Mika, what about Johnny "Mr. Consistency" Archer? Cory had his run early in the decade, Shane had his reign, Mika has had his as of late, and sure Ralf has one thoughout the decade but Johnny has year in, year out consistently kept winning big tournaments every year.....

Johnny Archer is my favorite player and my #2 pick for player of the decade despite Mika's incredible wins. Is POTD chosen by a point system, or is it just opinion?

 

[Ratta]

@iba7467

lol- carom and snooker - think u re kidding....
But the most funniest joke is that you write Efren Reyes would have advantages in 8-Ball? ATOMROFL
I think you have absolutley no plan about Ralf Souquet- His best game was and will be always 8-Ball. He s a real 8-Ball Machine- it his HIS game.

 

[cueman]

@iba7467

lol- carom and snooker - think u re kidding....
But the most funniest joke is that you write Efren Reyes would have advantages in 8-Ball? ATOMROFL
I think you have absolutley no plan about Ralf Souquet- His best game was and will be always 8-Ball. He s a real 8-Ball Machine- it his HIS game.

I am not sure anyone would like to play Efren 8 Ball. His tournament 8 Ball record is pretty impressive.

 

[Celtic]

Souqet..........
Mika.......

Stopped before doing Efren eh? Or did you just see how absurd his decade would look compared to the others?

 

[Celtic]

But the most funniest joke is that you write Efren Reyes would have advantages in 8-Ball? ATOMROFL
I think you have absolutley no plan about Ralf Souquet- His best game was and will be always 8-Ball. He s a real 8-Ball Machine- it his HIS game.

They played this little tour called the "IPT", 8-ball on the 9-foots. Efren and Ralf both played in all of the events. You can check yourself to see the outcome.

Just in case you are too lazy though, Efren definately outperformed Ralf in "HIS game", as you put it.

 

[DrMikeUSN]

It depends on the criteria. Ralf is ahead if you count 9/10 ball, but the title is "Player of the decade".

Efren is far ahead of Ralf as an all-around player. Let's evaluate in terms of level of play (who would be the odds favorite despite the fact Ralf doesn't gamble).

9/10 ball - Ralf, but it's arguable (for the decade, not today)
Rotation - Efren
1p - Efren (by a large margin)
8 ball - Efren
Banks - Efren by slight margin
Straight Pool - Ralf
Carom - Efren (by a large margin)
Snooker - Ralf (assumed only by his origin, but Efren would win a bit here also)

This is not to knock Ralf, but this is not 9/10 ball player of the decade. No one will play Efren even 1 pocket, I believe a few would try Ralf at his game.

Edited: After information about Ralf's game from Roy, Terry, and others.

Forget gambling... Why even bring it up? Odds favorite? I don't get why you people always need to assume that the GAMBLE is what determines a player... " Well he players better gambling " or " if they were gambling so and so would win " completel BS. NOT good for professionalism... *I*M*H*O*

lol what an assesment!

Take 10 tournaments, and have the both in the finals. It will be 50/50... They play even... Ralfs, involvement in pool, and interaction with the fans and his personallity wins him player of the decade.