I've decided to handicap my ten ball tour. I don't know all the players in the region but I know the majority. Could a few people help me out on ranking some players from the central region? A,b and see would work just fine. That would help me as far as handicapping players
Player rankings
- Thread starter Sw10balltour
- Start date
Here is a different Idea for you that may work.
Your entry stays at $60 per player and your added money stays at $1000 for 64 players. But this is how it is distributed.
$40 from each entry fee goes into the main tournament.
$20 from each entry fee goes into a second chance tourny.
$1000 of the added money goes into the main tournament.
none of the added money goes into the second chance tournament.
Total purse for the main tourny would be $3310
Total purse for the second chance would be $1280
Now instead of having to handicap the entire field, I would make a rule that anyone that makes it into top 12 during the main event can not participate in the second chance tournament. Also I would make a rule that anyone that is considered and "A" player or above can not participate in a second chance tournamet.
How would I decide who was an "A" player or above? At the beginning of each tournament I would review each name and if I did not know them, then I would make them an "A" player. Unless I can be %100 sure that he is not over qualified for the second chance tourny then I would not allow him to play until he enters another tournament on the tour.
Now, the key to prevent sandbaggers from trying to get into the second chance tourny is to distribute the prize money deep in the field so it would not be worth an "A" player to try to take the second chance tourny down.
Just a thought that may be tried out.
Your entry stays at $60 per player and your added money stays at $1000 for 64 players. But this is how it is distributed.
$40 from each entry fee goes into the main tournament.
$20 from each entry fee goes into a second chance tourny.
$1000 of the added money goes into the main tournament.
none of the added money goes into the second chance tournament.
Total purse for the main tourny would be $3310
Total purse for the second chance would be $1280
Now instead of having to handicap the entire field, I would make a rule that anyone that makes it into top 12 during the main event can not participate in the second chance tournament. Also I would make a rule that anyone that is considered and "A" player or above can not participate in a second chance tournamet.
How would I decide who was an "A" player or above? At the beginning of each tournament I would review each name and if I did not know them, then I would make them an "A" player. Unless I can be %100 sure that he is not over qualified for the second chance tourny then I would not allow him to play until he enters another tournament on the tour.
Now, the key to prevent sandbaggers from trying to get into the second chance tourny is to distribute the prize money deep in the field so it would not be worth an "A" player to try to take the second chance tourny down.
Just a thought that may be tried out.
IMOP this is just going to attract BS
you can't always know what everyones speed is....and don't think you can't get a sleeper that you believe to be a C thats really an A player....
I've seen guys come into towns and win 30k before people thought they were better than a 7 speed (out of 10)
just keep it straight up, if you run a good event the people will come.
handicapping it will just bring trouble, if something like that happens once its going to greatly affect your future turnouts
have it like you like it, its your tournament but thats my opinion.
-Grey Ghost-
you can't always know what everyones speed is....and don't think you can't get a sleeper that you believe to be a C thats really an A player....
I've seen guys come into towns and win 30k before people thought they were better than a 7 speed (out of 10)
just keep it straight up, if you run a good event the people will come.
handicapping it will just bring trouble, if something like that happens once its going to greatly affect your future turnouts
have it like you like it, its your tournament but thats my opinion.
-Grey Ghost-
Neil,
From what I have read on other post on the low turn out to his tourny I just wanted to give my opinion Which is that you would draw more "b" and below player to the main tournament because they know that they are going to get into a second chance tournament.
Do I think taking an "A" players money and not letting him enter a second chance tournament is correct. Yes I do, the reason being in without the B and below players showing up you get less than 20 players showing up, but with this idea I feel you would double the field. Should an "A" player loose to a "B" or below player, maybe one out of 10 times. Now if the "B" player is handicapped, then it should be about 50/50.
Now would you rather pay $20 for a 90 percent chance to beat all "B" players or pay $60 and play even with everyone....I would pay the $20.
generally this is the way i have seen it done and it seems at least somewhat fair. in the beggining everyone starts at lets say 9 (the highest) the more you win the higher up you go, the more you loose the lower you go. down to lets say 2 (the lowest). any new unknown players have to start at the top and play a few events before they get ranked. there should be players you know and you can place them where it seems fair. will this make eveyone happy? no. will it make it fair? as fair as you can. place in the money and you get raised. win it a few times at the highest skill level assigned and you have to sit a few weeks. none of the better players want to here this but it's the truth. the fields of most tournaments are made up by lesser skilled players. if all of the a players don't want things handicapped - then you can just play the same ten guys every week until the guy running the tournament gets sick of running an event for nothing. we have a guy named don that runs two tournaments a week at mr. cues. monday night is an open handicapped event, firday night is a c and d handicapped event. you get some spill over into each tournament. in other words i show up on fridays and sometimes have to play guys rated as 9s, i am a 5. sometimes the 9's have to deal with me showing up on monday. these events draw anywhere form 25 to as high 50 or 60. every week, twice a week. if you have a few people who will vouch for you don will accept you at your bca or apa handicap - he may put you at one higher or lower. if you are a sand bagger and screw him, he will most certainly pull you from the event and hand you your entry fee back. seen it happen. guy came in from the road swore he wasn't a skilled player and in the course of the first few games broke and ran a few racks. not a c or d player. got tossed and was told he was more than welcome to come back on monday and play in the open. the races are adjusted with games on the wire. a 5 paying a 3 would be a 4-3 race. an 8 playing a 4 would be a 7-3 race. occasionaly it is not always one below your skill level to adjust for time since these are larger tournaments and the friday is double elimination (open on monday is single) the races would sometimes be a 6-3 race. i am not sure exactly what all of the races are. i could find out. the point is the tournaments are as fair as they can be. these tournaments i am talking about are $20 to enter and first place on friday has been $350, 2nd $250, and i believe paid down to i think 8th place (could have bee 4th i am not sure this particular night i took second). the number of spots paid out depends on the number of entries. not bad for a no money added tournament, played on 9ft gold crowns, with no extra table time charged and free practice starting an hour before the tournament. handicapped tournaments can be run, run well, and be a good draw for a room and the t.d.
TAP TAP TAP this is an excellent statement, very well stated
DLD,
I have never really thought of it like that and I am glad that you pointed that out to me. Its great to have another players perspective on an idea/suggestion because it shows its good points and bad points.
As far as "this garbage" I honestly feel it would be easier for the TD to manage, than to try and set handicaps up for every player entered.
Thanks Again for your opinion.
Marie's Husband
So maybe I just lower the entry fee and adjust it according to the amount of added money
so sorry i didn't live up to your gramatical standards. and since you are the grammar police, what is the question mark, parentheses, period after the word pants? i am not familliar with that form of punctuation. so what you're saying is as a lower skilled player i should not be able to have a chance in a match. because if i showed up and played my best i can't beat 9/10ths of the field. so there should be no handicaps. way to be a locksmith. so when i gamble should i not ask for spots then either? i am sure you don't. your "passion" won't let you.
there i hit enter for you. hopefully you'll be able to keep your "passion" in check now. and if i really gave a sh*t i might have spell checked this. but i don't - so i didn't. oh try adderol. it may help you hold focus longer and be able to read.
As a lower player yes you do have a chance, a 10% chance, the rest is for the experience and for the enjoyment of the game, If your a lower player and cant deal with "Gambling" on a 10% chance then dont join.
I dont think he should have to handicap the torney to make it "Fair." As is the OP original post he wants people to show up in general. Even if he charged lower entry for lower skilled players but had no handicap for play Im sure people would still cry. Im happy to see him in my area attempting to promote our sport, that is what i care about!
don't go off half cocked.......he told you to press enter every once in a while
so people can read what your trying to say.
If its too hard to read then were not going to read it so your typing for nothing....its like trying to listen to Fran Dreshcer the Nanny talk! So if not for us then do yourself the favor and BE HEARD.
And hey we put on the White Diamonds tournament thats $40 entry plus quarters.....it pays has paid out over 35k$ for quite some time and has been hitting 40K$+ as of late. 128 players and its usually full....i think we only had 120? this time.
Everyone plays even. There are world class players like Jeremy Jones to Joe schmoe who can't run 5 balls.
Its a great tournament and the place is packed. So don't give me none of that OH HOW WE SUPPOSED TO BE EVEN.
Not that you cant, but if you WONT RUN WITH THE BIG DOGS THEN STAY ON THE PORCH!
Its not kiddie pool. You pay and you play. Even field. Work for it. Accomplish Somthing REAL. If not. Then Go BUST...or Go away.
your upper peers should not have to step to you, you are to step to them.
it is in life as it is in pool...
-Grey Ghost-
ok for the record f*ck a big dog and his porch. i can't get through a sentence written in any action thread that doesn't involve two guys wranglling over the spot. why shouldn't i want a shot in a tournament? are you telling me that if you want to gamble with a guy thats better than you, there is never a spot involved? and read some of my other posts, i enter plenty of tournaments that i have no shot in just for the experience. i have played in gsbt and viking events that i had no shot in just to do it. my posts were simply trying help this guy get more people through the gate at his events. the way you guys want it, he'll have the same 15 people until the tour dies. good luck with it. it is not in pool as it is in life. for tournaments, there are many levels of tournaments and there should be - something for eveyone. give me a break with this hollier than thou b*llshit. the op was trying to draw more people to his event. i tried to give him ideas that would bring in more people, all you guys have done is pile on me. so what's your solution? and as far as making paragraphs go, i could care less about being read by guys who are going to tell me i suck and i'm stupid, but guess what it still gets read appearantly. cause i got guys telling me i suck and i'm stupid.
I was always told that if you want to get better you need to play the best. Your like me, I play decent but if I were to play the Chip Comptons and the Joey Grays of the world I'd need a huge spot. I always thought handicapping would keep the top dogs away, which I don't want to do. I don't want to tell anyone they can't play because they are to good.
For now I'm just gonna lower the entry fee, if that doesn't work , I'll try the handicapping. If that don't work then I'll mix some 9 ball and 8 ball in at different stops.
I appreciate everyones input and believe me you guys have given me plenty to think about.
For now I'm just gonna lower the entry fee, if that doesn't work , I'll try the handicapping. If that don't work then I'll mix some 9 ball and 8 ball in at different stops.
I appreciate everyones input and believe me you guys have given me plenty to think about.
green rep sent your way. this is all i was trying to get out of you guys. you don't have to like my idea but i am trying to give him ways to bump up his numbers. picking on me wasn't going to do that, but this is an idea that might work. and just for the sake of our back and forth, believe me i do try. i haven't been playing long but i've gone from crap to b player and now back down to c because life gets in the way and i can't play as much as i want or need to. i just think there needs to be things like c and d only tournaments for guys like me to be able to compete in. you big fish can have your pond but we need somewhere to work out too.
it's like being in a gym. i can't bench press 500lbs. but there's different plates so i can work my way up and get stronger. what good does it do me to play too many matches where i just kick or get run out on. i can only learn so much by watching. i need to be able to play people of the same skill level and have a competitive game. that's all i am looking for.
any way thanks for coming up with what i think is not a bad idea at all.
In the northeast New England are, I can't remember a tournament in recent years that was not handicapped. They just don't do well. So I suppose the option for the better players is to just not have a tournament? The best tournament going anywhere near here is at Snookers in Providence, RI. It is their weekly Wednesday night $20 9 ball tourney. There, A players and above go to 5, otherwise you go to 4. The races drop 1 on the losers side. They get from 40-64 people every week. The best players should pretty much come out on top most times, but at least a decent B player has a chance against an open player. Mike Dechaine doesn't win *every* time he plays
This seems like a good way to do it for a low money tourney. *Personally* I'm fine with no handicap. Its a great ideal. But the reality of the business and marketing aspect of pool tournaments has to set in at some point. Giving lesser players a chance to win, no matter how slim a chance, is required to fill the room on a regular basis...at least around here.
KMRUNOUT
This view represents two concepts: idealism and the belief that others should think as you do. I totally agree with the ideal that you present. I agree that the lesser players should want to improve, and should be thankful for experience gained along the way. So *I* think as you do. However, not everyone does, or wants to. There are many players whose attitude is that they just don't have the time, desire, or drive to invest in their pool game. They like playing, but are C players because they only play once a week at a weekly tournament. So as others have said, are you more interested in a no handicap tourney in which the 10 or so A players in the area get tired of playing each other for crappy pay outs, or in a BIG thriving tournament that bring business to the room? Keep in mind a few things: who is more likely to spend money on drinks and food at a tourney? The A players or the C players (on average I'm asking)? Also, is it harder for the A player to beat another A player even, or to beat a C player giving weight? Are you looking for the easiest win, or do you want to work for it? Remember, whatever your views are, not everyone shares them. If a tournament is to do well, the target market must be considered as a whole.
Some things to consider...
KMRUNOUT
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The difference is that barring suicide, life is not optional. A pool tournament is. We want our sport to do well. Encouraging people to stay home doesn't do that. Maybe in your area things are different. In New England, good luck with that strategy.
KMRUNOUT
You make an excellent point! Seeing the other persons point of view is a skill unto itself.