Players dropping out of the Matchroom/Predator CLP

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
for those that do not understand how value is calculated here is an example.

you and another person flip a coin for ten dollars. i come along and say i will add ten dollars to who ever wins for free.
if you are the loser you have really made 5 dollars. and if you are the winner you made 5 dollars.
Not unless you’ve made an agreement with the person you’re flipping with to split the third party’s $10 regardless of who wins the flip - which is referred to as a saver.

Otherwise, the winner wins $20 instead of $10 and the loser still loses the same $10 he would’ve lost if the third-party never made the offer. Am am I missing something here?
 

Scratch85

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's less about who is at fault and more about removing some of the obstacles to the growth of the sport.

I completely agree with the above statement. It’s not realistic to think pool can grow, in popularity and prize money, without overcoming issues like this.

IMO, there isn’t anything wrong with the way it is being addressed, for this league. At the end of the day, those involved will decide whether their actions, as a sponsor, a producer or a player, was worthwhile. Hopefully, pool will continue to grow and events like this will come about with very little negative back-and-forth.


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ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I completely agree with the above statement. It’s not realistic to think pool can grow, in popularity and prize money, without overcoming issues like this.

IMO, there isn’t anything wrong with the way it is being addressed, for this league. At the end of the day, those involved will decide whether their actions, as a sponsor, a producer or a player, was worthwhile. Hopefully, pool will continue to grow and events like this will come about with very little negative back-and-forth.


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Just curious whether Shane, Jayson and Skyler made the decision not to play on their own? Whether they checked with their sponsor and were instructed not to play under the conditions required for them to wear the Predator tournament logo? Or whether their sponsor gave them the option to make their own decision as to whether or not to play? We may never know the answer to that question.
 
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vjmehra

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I wondered the same. But with the size of the field purposely limited to 19 players, i guess it's not surprising that it was mostly Europeans, with two from Asia, and two from North America.

Isn't Matchroom 'thinking out loud' that they'll be hosting a world championship in Japan this year? They seem to want to spread out geographically.
I suspect its just due to the current situation. Travel in and out of Europe (in particular the UK) is a bit restricted at the moment, it is probably quite difficult and not necessarily financially worthwhile for those players based in Asia to attend this event (I'm speculating here, but a few of the top Chinese snooker pro's made the difficult decision to base themselves in the UK temporarily to ensure they could play, so I'm reasonably sure that is likely to be the issue). In normal times, I suspect all the top players based in Asia would be invited too (well they possibly have been invited, been able to accept the invitation I should say).
 

vjmehra

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don’t think it has. I just find it interesting that women pros with a Fargo rating of up to 100+ points less than some of the men pros have been invited to play in such a small select field.

Its an invitational event and given the global travel restrictions that might stop some of the top Asian male players travelling. Given some of leading female players are probably about as well known (if not more so than lower ranked male players) to the core European target audience, it does sort of make sense.
 

gerryf

Well-known member
I suspect its just due to the current situation. Travel in and out of Europe (in particular the UK) is a bit restricted at the moment, it is probably quite difficult and not necessarily financially worthwhile for those players based in Asia to attend this event (I'm speculating here, but a few of the top Chinese snooker pro's made the difficult decision to base themselves in the UK temporarily to ensure they could play, so I'm reasonably sure that is likely to be the issue). In normal times, I suspect all the top players based in Asia would be invited too (well they possibly have been invited, been able to accept the invitation I should say).
That's a very good point. And with those travel restrictions, this format of tournament (19 player round robin type) is different enough to maybe attrract some attention with a geographically limited group.
 

vjmehra

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That's a very good point. And with those travel restrictions, this format of tournament (19 player round robin type) is different enough to maybe attrract some attention with a geographically limited group.
Yeah, that's my take on it. Could be wrong of course, but we're in a weird situation so I suspect its at least partially down to that (if not fully).
 

9ballhasbeen

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've reached out to a few industry folks and what I'm hearing is this;

The patch requirements only said predator patch at first, nothing about an "event patch"

Predator patch had to be on the left chest and could have no other logos around it

Right side could be used for 3 of the player's sponsor logos

I think the left chest side is the best place to see on a right-handed pool player. If they didn't say event patch, and are now, somebody got caught and is trying to spin things. I hope this isn't the case, but it sure sounds right based on the fall-out.
 

vjmehra

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've reached out to a few industry folks and what I'm hearing is this;

The patch requirements only said predator patch at first, nothing about an "event patch"

Predator patch had to be on the left chest and could have no other logos around it

Right side could be used for 3 of the player's sponsor logos

I think the left chest side is the best place to see on a right-handed pool player. If they didn't say event patch, and are now, somebody got caught and is trying to spin things. I hope this isn't the case, but it sure sounds right based on the fall-out.

It is very unlikely with the experience Matchroom have that these rules were not laid out at the start.
 

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Gold Member
Silver Member
I don't have a degree in mathematics or whatever this "value added" would be under, I just know what 2 of us are saying is correct.


Not unless you’ve made an agreement with the person you’re flipping with to split the third party’s $10 regardless of who wins the flip - which is referred to as a saver.

Otherwise, the winner wins $20 instead of $10 and the loser still loses the same $10 he would’ve lost if the third-party never made the offer. Am am I missing something here?
 

jviss

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
for those that do not understand how value is calculated here is an example.

you and another person flip a coin for ten dollars. i come along and say i will add ten dollars to who ever wins for free.
if you are the loser you have really made 5 dollars. and if you are the winner you made 5 dollars.
I'm not a gambler, and I confess that I don't fully "get" things like money-lines, etc.; but I am an electrical engineer, and have taken years of math and logic. I must say that I don't understand this, but I'm not arrogant enough to declare it false. To my way of thinking, the third party giving the winner $10 is orthogonal to the wager the other two have made. The winner is up $20, the loser down $10, at the end of this round. How can it be otherwise?
 

maha

from way back when
Silver Member
okay. we are talking value. expected value. it is what your bet was worth. that is in effect what you have earned by making that bet. not the immediate outcome.
if both made that bet 1000 times each would be up about 5000 dollars.
so each has an earn of 5 dollars for each event. so win or lose you made 5 dollars. even if you didnt pocket it.
 

jviss

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
okay. we are talking value. expected value. it is what your bet was worth. that is in effect what you have earned by making that bet. not the immediate outcome.
if both made that bet 1000 times each would be up about 5000 dollars.
so each has an earn of 5 dollars for each event. so win or lose you made 5 dollars. even if you didnt pocket it.
Got it, thanks. So, it doesn't apply if there's only a single toss.

I found this (easily):

"In betting, the expected value (EV) is the measure of what a bettor can expect to win or lose per bet placed on the same odds time and time again. Positive expected value (+EV) implies profit over time, while a negative value (-EV) implies a loss over time."

How to calculate expected value in betting
 

Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
I'm not a gambler, and I confess that I don't fully "get" things like money-lines, etc.; but I am an electrical engineer, and have taken years of math and logic. I must say that I don't understand this, but I'm not arrogant enough to declare it false. To my way of thinking, the third party giving the winner $10 is orthogonal to the wager the other two have made. The winner is up $20, the loser down $10, at the end of this round. How can it be otherwise?
It can't
 

Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
okay. we are talking value. expected value. it is what your bet was worth. that is in effect what you have earned by making that bet. not the immediate outcome.
if both made that bet 1000 times each would be up about 5000 dollars.
so each has an earn of 5 dollars for each event. so win or lose you made 5 dollars. even if you didnt pocket it.
lol. This type of logic is why society is going down the shithole. No, because in order for that to be the case and this to be realized, you have to BE ABLE to make the bet 1000 TIMES.

This is a single tournament, so even if your logic had merit it is not a translatable illustration.

Jaden
 

AF pool guy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I said it, you gain value from the added $$$, regardless if you cash.

It's simple, don't play if you think you're getting screwed. Only play the tourneys that pay you to wear their logo. How many is that btw? I'm guessing zero, so what's all the complaining about.

If you don’t receive anything with a cash value, it’s not a contract. If it had a value you’ll have claim it on your taxes.


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maha

from way back when
Silver Member
it is going down the sh==t hole because most cant understand simple concepts that they need to use to function in life effectively.
once you understand it and take a few moments to think about it you will see how so many decisions in life should be made accordingly.
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
it is going down the sh==t hole because most cant understand simple concepts that they need to use to function in life effectively.
once you understand it and take a few moments to think about it you will see how so many decisions in life should be made accordingly.
The bet thing is absurd. If the first loser loses 100% of the flips, he is out 100% of what he bet.
 
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