Players refusing to lag the ball.

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KingSamurai

Member
I have been playing in some tournaments where I run into players who refuse to lag the ball to determine whose break. On short races on a template rack, the break is a big advantage and I prefer to lag. It generally is the lower skilled players who insist on flipping and I been having a couple people throw a fit lately. I always thought that the default was lagging if there was a disagreement. I guess I was curious on what opinions are out there regarding this.
 
Definitely up to the tournament organizer.

But if you think youre an enormous favorite to win the lag against an opponent then it's unlikely them winning the first break is that big of a deal anyway . So in that case, you should just accept the coinflip and move on. Chances are you're not as big of a fav to win the lag as you think you are anyway. But lose the flip half the time and it won't change your win percentage much at all against those feeble players who can't lag.

Put the shoe on the other foot, do you think you're never winning the lag against a better player than yourself? Doubtful. Even against the greats you're still clipping them more than you think unless you just can't perform in the moment and then it wouldn't matter if you did win that coin flip :-)
 
KingSamurai said:
I have been playing in some tournaments where I run into players who refuse to lag the ball to determine whose break. On short races on a template rack, the break is a big advantage and I prefer to lag. It generally is the lower skilled players who insist on flipping and I been having a couple people throw a fit lately. I always thought that the default was lagging if there was a disagreement. I guess I was curious on what opinions are out there regarding this.
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I really don’t care. If it’s a lower level player as you say odds are if they win the break they aren’t going to break and run anyway .. just going to remove some balls in your way playing 8 ball or give you an easier out playing 9 ball so who cares. I try not to over think stuff like this.
 
Between two VERY GOOD layers 'maybe' but at any other level this doesn't mean shit. Every tourn in my area uses a flip. IMO the lag is for old fart straight pool. ;) Everything else? Flip it.
 
They throw a fit because you come off as a nit. 😎

It can be seen as kind of nit behavior. Granted it shouldn’t be a big fight but you will save yourself stress if you just flip it, particularly if, as you say, they are lower level players. The extra % of breaks they win with flip vs lag are going to make little to no difference in your results.

I’d rather just flip it, but I like winning the lag against someone who doesn’t want to flip it. Gives them a little loss to start and by wanting to lag they let me know it was important to them.
 
if its a tournament you have every right to follow the rules.
if for being complacent then let him have his way.

when in competition it is smart to take every advantage the rules allow to win. although you may lose popularity.
 
The tournaments here are all flip for the break. When neither of us have a coin, I offer to lag for it. To me that’s fun like dressing up as a firefighter for Halloween. Some people bite. Some are completely against doing it and will insist we get a coin. And so I let them track one down because I’m not. But if I tried to argue that they were required to lag, culturally I’d stick out like a sore thumb.
 
what if, in football, the guys kick field goals from 100 yards and whoever was closest got to choose?

or better yet if basketball players had to verrrrrrry slowly roll a basketball down the court


i like the coin flip.
 
KingSamurai said:
I have been playing in some tournaments where I run into players who refuse to lag the ball to determine whose break. On short races on a template rack, the break is a big advantage and I prefer to lag. It generally is the lower skilled players who insist on flipping and I been having a couple people throw a fit lately. I always thought that the default was lagging if there was a disagreement. I guess I was curious on what opinions are out there regarding this.
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What is worse is when they wait till after you hit your shot by a few seconds and then hit theirs.
 
Bavafongoul said:
On a 7’ table it matters a great deal just as much as pocket size does.
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It matters less than people think especially below the 700 level IMO. Yes, Bergman ran 18 racks with a template. Yes, excellent players occasionally run a set to, say, 7. But people IME vastly overestimate the number of runouts (or as posted above break followed by great safety followed by run out) at all levels. Yes, 825 level pros need to worry about it. But there just aren’t as many runouts as people assume even though it is easier to do on a 7’ table.
 
MattPoland said:
The tournaments here are all flip for the break. When neither of us have a coin, I offer to lag for it. To me that’s fun like dressing up as a firefighter for Halloween. Some people bite. Some are completely against doing it and will insist we get a coin. And so I let them track one down because I’m not. But if I tried to argue that they were required to lag, culturally I’d stick out like a sore thumb.
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It's flip or lag at most of the tournaments I go to. I prefer to lag so I never have a coin. I offer to lag and if they insist on flipping I just go with it. Sometimes they have to hunt up a coin, and sometimes they'll just lag. It helps if I got there first and have the balls ready to lag.
 
it just depends on whether you want the first break to be determined by a skill shot or by luck of a flip.

and the break can actually hurt weaker players as in 8 ball they will tend to pick off some easy shots early trying to get position on tougher ones and then miss and leave a better table for the good player to run out.

instead of in cases where they should be tying up balls so their opponent wont run out.

trying to run out when you cant is almost always the wrong strategy playing a better player who can.
 
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