Playing For An Area vs Playing For A Spot

Pidge

Pidge

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Playing pool with a buddy tonight and the topic came up. What do you do and what do the pros do in terms of playing position? A specific spot on the table, or a larger area with plenty of room for error.

He was adamant playing for an area was the key to keeping your positional percentages up. I on the other hand play for a specific spot, the size of my tip and try to have the cue ball overlap it. I feel it stops me getting sloppy and if I miss the boundry of this spot on the table by 3 inches I'm still good, but if I missed the boundry by 3 inches of a designated area I'm up sh*t creek.

He also said how playing for an area makes the cue ball travel along a line so it almost eliminates speed control (I know, it doesn't but you get what he meant). I do the same, but on occasions ill take the easiest path to my spot whilst crossing the "correct line" into the OB rather than go a rail or 2 and travel along that "correct line".

What do you do when playing position and what are your thoughts on both sides of the debate?
 
I try to play for a specific spot inside the area :)

One of the things that really opened my eyes to position play was Tor Lowry's free lesson video on Youtube. What he advocated was imagining a line going straight through the next ball so that if the CB were on that line you would have a straight in shot. Then you just decide if being above or below that line would give you the proper angle to get to the next shot.

What I do is find out what side of the line I need to be on, and then create a zone or area attached to that line. So in the example below, I would prefer to be on the left side of the line to get shape on the 9 ball. I do pick a specific spot within that area, as noted by the red square. The yellow squares just represent random spots I could end up and still be able to easily get to the 9 ball.

OV2fzIVp71jneDy7H10e.png


In conclusion, I think both are beneficial. I believe you should find the zone, and then pick a spot inside the zone. If you miss the spot, you're still okay as long as you're within the zone.
 
For me, it depends on the shot. If the positional area is very small, I'll focus on a specific landing spot forthe cue ball. For most shots, however, I usually pick a point on the rail for the cue ball to hit, or focus on getting on the correct side of the next ball.
 
play or a spot but....

You should play for a spot but you need to pay attention to the approach angle.

You want the approach angle to the spot that you are playing for to be as close to the next shot line as possible.

IOW, avoid coming across the next shot angle. That gives you more room for error if your speed control or angle of approach is slightly off.

Jaden
 
BeiberLvr said:
I try to play for a specific spot inside the area :)

One of the things that really opened my eyes to position play was Tor Lowry's free lesson video on Youtube. What he advocated was imagining a line going straight through the next ball so that if the CB were on that line you would have a straight in shot. Then you just decide if being above or below that line would give you the proper angle to get to the next shot.

What I do is find out what side of the line I need to be on, and then create a zone or area attached to that line. So in the example below, I would prefer to be on the left side of the line to get shape on the 9 ball. I do pick a specific spot within that area, as noted by the red square. The yellow squares just represent random spots I could end up and still be able to easily get to the 9 ball.

OV2fzIVp71jneDy7H10e.png


In conclusion, I think both are beneficial. I believe you should find the zone, and then pick a spot inside the zone. If you miss the spot, you're still okay as long as you're within the zone.
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Thanks for the diagram. Is the left triangle the area? if it is I would say you play for a specific spot. Playing for an area the red spot would be directly in the middle of the triangle to give maximum room for error. The red dot in the triangle has around 3 ball widths of margin but playing for it closer to the rail gives you 5+ ball widths to play with.

This is exactly how I'd break it down. First establish an area then pick a spot in the middle of that and aim for the spot. I see playing for an area as not really focusing on the CB path off the rail and just a ball park area kind of. Little bit like hit the CB somewhere around here at something like this speed and ill be good. Playing for the red spot you have to hit the CB at the right position and speed and find the exact spot the white is contacting the rail(s).

How would you play position on that shot? My buddy who plays for an area would no doubt go 1 rail with a smidge of top spin and float up table. I on the other hand would go 2 rails with top left and hit it firmer but really try and imagine the angle in angle out on the 2nd rail.
 
It depends on the shot. The general rule of thumb is to play going into the triangular position zone. That way, your speed isn't a critical, and you are on the correct shot line for the next shot. However, one must also realize that it is a "general best practice" and not an "always do" type of thing.

Going across the line will get you in trouble much more often than coming into the line. Sometimes, though, it is much easier to come across the line using little cb travel compared to going into the line using a lot of cb travel.

Another general rule of thumb, is to not move the cb more than you have to. Sometimes, that means going across the line.

What you have to do as a player, is make the assessment on your odds of a successful outcome with each way. If you feel you can easily get position going across the line with less cb travel, then that is the way to go. If you aren't sure, say....you are going into a small area, then going a longer route for position to come into the line might be the best shot.

Just go with the way that will give you the best percentage of getting position.
 
Pidge said:
Thanks for the diagram. Is the left triangle the area? if it is I would say you play for a specific spot. Playing for an area the red spot would be directly in the middle of the triangle to give maximum room for error. The red dot in the triangle has around 3 ball widths of margin but playing for it closer to the rail gives you 5+ ball widths to play with.

This is exactly how I'd break it down. First establish an area then pick a spot in the middle of that and aim for the spot. I see playing for an area as not really focusing on the CB path off the rail and just a ball park area kind of. Little bit like hit the CB somewhere around here at something like this speed and ill be good. Playing for the red spot you have to hit the CB at the right position and speed and find the exact spot the white is contacting the rail(s).

How would you play position on that shot? My buddy who plays for an area would no doubt go 1 rail with a smidge of top spin and float up table. I on the other hand would go 2 rails with top left and hit it firmer but really try and imagine the angle in angle out on the 2nd rail.
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I would also go the 2 rail route. When playing 9 ball, whenever there's a chance to go 2 rails, that's usually the way I like to go.

Makes speed control so much easier, and takes away the table roll since you aren't "babying" the ball.
 
My view of playing for an area might by a bit obscured. When I do play for an area when the shot is very tough and I have very little idea of what the CB is going to do is to just get the right side of the next ball. Something along the lines of "I know the CB is going to go here then here of this rail and go down in this general direction" so all I concentrate on is getting over the line and hitting it hard enough to do so. This leaves me at the mercy of the table and often I will never be "nice" on the next ball and have a much thinner shot that I wanted. This is the main reason I play so poorly when I'm tired. This is generally how my thought process works where as if I'm on the ball I can track the CB path and manipulate it with ease and still keep track whilst it goes all around the table. Trying to concentrate and think like this when tired makes my head hurt and takes away from me making the ball in the first place.
 
Pidge said:
Thanks for the diagram. Is the left triangle the area? if it is I would say you play for a specific spot. Playing for an area the red spot would be directly in the middle of the triangle to give maximum room for error. The red dot in the triangle has around 3 ball widths of margin but playing for it closer to the rail gives you 5+ ball widths to play with.

This is exactly how I'd break it down. First establish an area then pick a spot in the middle of that and aim for the spot. I see playing for an area as not really focusing on the CB path off the rail and just a ball park area kind of. Little bit like hit the CB somewhere around here at something like this speed and ill be good. Playing for the red spot you have to hit the CB at the right position and speed and find the exact spot the white is contacting the rail(s).

How would you play position on that shot? My buddy who plays for an area would no doubt go 1 rail with a smidge of top spin and float up table. I on the other hand would go 2 rails with top left and hit it firmer but really try and imagine the angle in angle out on the 2nd rail.
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I think you will find that most amateurs will go one rail with the shot shown. They will also come up short or go long about 30% of the time. What you chose, I feel is the correct way to play the shot. Find your zone, then look at the best way to get into it. In this case, one rail can get tricky because you are coming across at the smaller part of the zone. Going two rails, you end up with a much larger zone area to fall into, and also know that you won't be stuck on the side rail. You find your zone, then pick a spot in that zone to shoot to, then forget about the next ball. If you think about the next ball, you stand a chance of getting dead even with it. Focus on your "spot" in the zone.
 
Both! I think it's always a good idea to have an idea of an ideal position for the shot, but sending the cue ball along the shot line is ideal for consistency. That's one of the reasons Shane Van Boening makes the game look impossibly easy in those TAR matches (aside from being just generally awesome), is he always maximizes his room for error.

It's kinda like what they teach in snooker, play for a specific spot and red, but if you can, play into an area where you have a choice of reds. It just gives that extra room for error.
 
Pidge said:
My view of playing for an area might by a bit obscured. When I do play for an area when the shot is very tough and I have very little idea of what the CB is going to do is to just get the right side of the next ball. Something along the lines of "I know the CB is going to go here then here of this rail and go down in this general direction" so all I concentrate on is getting over the line and hitting it hard enough to do so. This leaves me at the mercy of the table and often I will never be "nice" on the next ball and have a much thinner shot that I wanted. This is the main reason I play so poorly when I'm tired. This is generally how my thought process works where as if I'm on the ball I can track the CB path and manipulate it with ease and still keep track whilst it goes all around the table. Trying to concentrate and think like this when tired makes my head hurt and takes away from me making the ball in the first place.
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Whilst standing is the time to be deciding on just what you want to do, and visualizing it. Where do I want the cb to go, and where do I have to hit the cb to go there, and at what speed. Then, once down on the shot, position is already taken care of, you concentrate on hitting the cb exactly where you chose to, and at the speed you chose, and straight down the line you chose. Once down, your primary concern is what I stated. If you do those three things, you will make the ball, and get your position. Don't be thinking about position once you are down and deciding then what you want to do.

One other thing, when faced with a tough shot, I tend to always play position to the larger end of the triangle. It's much more forgiving.
 
Neil said:
Whilst standing is the time to be deciding on just what you want to do, and visualizing it. Where do I want the cb to go, and where do I have to hit the cb to go there, and at what speed. Then, once down on the shot, position is already taken care of, you concentrate on hitting the cb exactly where you chose to, and at the speed you chose, and straight down the line you chose. Once down, your primary concern is what I stated. If you do those three things, you will make the ball, and get your position. Don't be thinking about position once you are down and deciding then what you want to do.

One other thing, when faced with a tough shot, I tend to always play position to the larger end of the triangle. It's much more forgiving.
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Cheers Neil. Yes when down all you should be thinking about is hitting the CB where you line up and speed of stroke. What I was meaning was more along the lines of you have no choice but to carom into a ball, so position from there is at the mercy of the table. What I'm thinking of then is making sure I carom into the ball on the right side so the CB goes in the general direction of the next ball to get onto the right side of it. I make sure I hit it hard enough to get on the right side, but the "zone" is so large its basically anywhere past the line but not too far that I can't cut the next ball in.

This kind of thinking is what a lot of new players that are progressing do, and what I do when tired. Anywhere this side of the ball is good, when there could be hundreds of final resting points for the CB. It happens when I play quick too, when I'm just knocking balls around. I just focus on the correct side of the ball but not a specific position that makes it easier to get to the 3rd, 4th or 5th ball.

I tried picking up my speed in 14.1 and because of this I couldn't get through the 3rd rack. Luck started playing a much bigger role.
 
I find this to be a very interesting question. From what I've gathered, both approaches are correct in some sense:

1) As seen from the ''triangle'' picture posted above, concentrating on the best point where to play position might also be very risky; in the case above you should play one rail for the red spot, easily risking to go too far or not far enough, thus giving out position alltogether.

2) On the other hand, I've found it a good practice to imagine the shot completely in your mind before executing, thus also deciding an exact landing spot for the cueball. Only thinking about an area is a bit too vague. That way I'm just thinking ''I'll put the cueball somewhere around there'', and that's not good.

So in the end, I don't still know which one is the best approach in general, if you had to choose. What I try to do, is to pick an exact point, put with a as much room for error as possible. Of course, I'm rarely able to actually do this, normally I'll just **** it up one way or another.
 
Pidge said:
Cheers Neil. Yes when down all you should be thinking about is hitting the CB where you line up and speed of stroke. What I was meaning was more along the lines of you have no choice but to carom into a ball, so position from there is at the mercy of the table. What I'm thinking of then is making sure I carom into the ball on the right side so the CB goes in the general direction of the next ball to get onto the right side of it. I make sure I hit it hard enough to get on the right side, but the "zone" is so large its basically anywhere past the line but not too far that I can't cut the next ball in.

This kind of thinking is what a lot of new players that are progressing do, and what I do when tired. Anywhere this side of the ball is good, when there could be hundreds of final resting points for the CB. It happens when I play quick too, when I'm just knocking balls around. I just focus on the correct side of the ball but not a specific position that makes it easier to get to the 3rd, 4th or 5th ball.

I tried picking up my speed in 14.1 and because of this I couldn't get through the 3rd rack. Luck started playing a much bigger role.
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Something else to look at which is an easy trap to fall into with the higher level players (which if I remember right, you are)....When our cb position starts getting pretty good, sometimes we can get upset when we are still in the "makeable" zone, but not quite as good as we wanted. We then face a little tougher shot than we feel we should be facing, and can talk ourselves real easily into missing because we "failed" on the previous shot.

With the same shot we now face, and aren't happy with, if our opponent left us that shot, we would be very happy with it! When you get out of line a little bit, don't let it get you down. Especially when it was a tricky position to start with. Be happy with the shot you DO have, and make the best of it to get back in line on the one after that.

Think positively , not negatively. Just tell yourself "It's not quite what I was going for, but it is good enough to work!"

Also, in 14.1, a lot of time we are dealing with inches or even less for position. 9 ball is much more forgiving for position. When you get out of line in 14.1, it's best to always re-asses the layout. An inch off can mean you might be better off taking a different pattern than you planned on.
 
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Rasputin said:
I find this to be a very interesting question. From what I've gathered, both approaches are correct in some sense:

1) As seen from the ''triangle'' picture posted above, concentrating on the best point where to play position might also be very risky; in the case above you should play one rail for the red spot, easily risking to go too far or not far enough, thus giving out position alltogether.

2) On the other hand, I've found it a good practice to imagine the shot completely in your mind before executing, thus also deciding an exact landing spot for the cueball. Only thinking about an area is a bit too vague. That way I'm just thinking ''I'll put the cueball somewhere around there'', and that's not good.

So in the end, I don't still know which one is the best approach in general, if you had to choose. What I try to do, is to pick an exact point, put with a as much room for error as possible. Of course, I'm rarely able to actually do this, normally I'll just **** it up one way or another.
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You figure out your zone to play to. Then you pick the ideal spot in that zone. Which usually will be about the middle of the zone. If the zone is rather narrow for a ways, pick the wider part of the zone. That will give you a longer shot, but still be shooting the correct shot. Just don't get upset when you don't land exactly on the spot in the zone you chose. Narrowing down to a spot in the zone increases your chances of staying in the zone.
 
Neil said:
You figure out your zone to play to. Then you pick the ideal spot in that zone. Which usually will be about the middle of the zone. .
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This is the best post in this thread. You choose the zone, and having optimized the approach angle into the position zone, you take note of that zone's length and try for halfway. You have, thereby, optimized the angle and chosen a speed that allows more error than any other to achieve satisfactory shape in that zone.

Fantastic stuff, Neil. Dead on 100/% accurate.
 
Neil said:
Something else to look at which is an easy trap to fall into with the higher level players (which if I remember right, you are)....When our cb position starts getting pretty good, sometimes we can get upset when we are still in the "makeable" zone, but not quite as good as we wanted. We then face a little tougher shot than we feel we should be facing, and can talk ourselves real easily into missing because we "failed" on the previous shot.

With the same shot we now face, and aren't happy with, if our opponent left us that shot, we would be very happy with it! When you get out of line a little bit, don't let it get you down. Especially when it was a tricky position to start with. Be happy with the shot you DO have, and make the best of it to get back in line on the one after that.

Think positively , not negatively. Just tell yourself "It's not quite what I was going for, but it is good enough to work!"

Also, in 14.1, a lot of time we are dealing with inches or even less for position. 9 ball is much more forgiving for position. When you get out of line in 14.1, it's best to always re-asses the layout. An inch off can mean you might be better off taking a different pattern than you planned on.
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That's an excellent mindset to have. Unfortunately it isn't the way I see things. I don't mind missing the spot by some way, but if I'm really pushing my luck on a shot I will beat myself up. But I recent years, maybe due to maturing, I still beat my self up but once I'm done mutturing under my breath I move on. At the end of the day I'm still at the table.

I can't help but wonder how the great players deal with messing up. My snooker instructor growing up was very strict. But I couldn't do anything because the lessons were free. If I missed position, a ball or a safety he would make repeat the scenario over and over, and often whole lessons were me just repeating a shot I messed up. I wonder if this is how pros get to where they are. I've seen guys on streams in the back ground playing the ghost, miss, and then replay the shot countless times.

Back on topic... Max Eberle posts videos on his YouTube page of him playing. But with the priceless addition of him talking through the racks. Really opens your eyes as to how a top player thinks their way through a rack, and why they play certain positional shots the way they do. Jimmy Reid has a few videos of him doing it in 8 ball for anyone interested. The difference with Jimmy (and this probably down the 8 ball) is that he plans specific positions, and pockets for all his balls before he even plays his first shot.
 
sjm said:
This is the best post in this thread. You choose the zone, and having optimized the approach angle into the position zone, you take note of that zone's length and try for halfway. You have, thereby, optimized the angle and chosen a speed that allows more error than any other to achieve satisfactory shape in that zone.
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This is certainly the right answer assuming that the ''zone'' you've decided is of a simple geometrical nature. Which is not always the case. More so, if you are not able to trust yourself to come to the zone with the exact path that you'd like.
 
sjm said:
This is the best post in this thread. You choose the zone, and having optimized the approach angle into the position zone, you take note of that zone's length and try for halfway. You have, thereby, optimized the angle and chosen a speed that allows more error than any other to achieve satisfactory shape in that zone.

Fantastic stuff, Neil. Dead on 100/% accurate.
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You might be right...with 11'460 posts under his belt the odds were in his favour to finally come up with a gem ;)

I kid - infact of all Neils posts I've read I can't recall reading one that was poor.
 
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