Playing for perfect position

leehayes

leehayes

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have a question based on the My revelation in Aiming and How'd you shoot the 5 threads.

I am constantly being told that I try to be perfect on my leaves and because of that I end up being out of position now and then and make my matches more difficult.

I agree that I try to be perfect on all of my leaves but my thinking is that if I don't aim to be in a specific spot that I will never learn how to get there.

In reading both of these threads I see two things that make me think I may be right in pursuing the "perfect" position.

One is that Jude says he'd choose a shot selection based on a few fractions of an inch. The other is that in the book the Inner Game of Tennis says to focus on hitting the seam rather than the whole ball to intensify focus on a spot.

Am I right in trying to play for a very small leave area? Now, keep in mind that I am not talking about taking a shot that my chances of screwing myself go up tremendously. I'm just talking about trying for a very specific spot in my leaves.

I actually pick a point on the table and point to it with my cue to implant that spot in my mind.
One point to note here...I am also the best position player on my 8 and 9 ball teams. Wonder if there is a connection.
 
leehayes said:
I have a question based on the My revelation in Aiming and How'd you shoot the 5 threads.

I am constantly being told that I try to be perfect on my leaves and because of that I end up being out of position now and then and make my matches more difficult.

I agree that I try to be perfect on all of my leaves but my thinking is that if I don't aim to be in a specific spot that I will never learn how to get there.

In reading both of these threads I see two things that make me think I may be right in pursuing the "perfect" position.

One is that Jude says he'd choose a shot selection based on a few fractions of an inch. The other is that in the book the Inner Game of Tennis says to focus on hitting the seam rather than the whole ball to intensify focus on a spot.

Am I right in trying to play for a very small leave area? Now, keep in mind that I am not talking about taking a shot that my chances of screwing myself go up tremendously. I'm just talking about trying for a very specific spot in my leaves.

I actually pick a point on the table and point to it with my cue to implant that spot in my mind.
One point to note here...I am also the best position player on my 8 and 9 ball teams. Wonder if there is a connection.
Click to expand...

Most top players although capable of playing very precis play more in a small zone. You want to be play in such a way you don't have to be perfect for the shot to be workable. The biggest problem with trying to be too perfect is you may increase the chances of missing the ball.
 
macguy said:
Most top players although capable of playing very precis play more in a small zone. You want to be play in such a way you don't have to be perfect for the shot to be workable. The biggest problem with trying to be too perfect is you may increase the chances of missing the ball.
Click to expand...

Good point...but the reason I pick a specific point is to then be able to focus on the ball and not the spot. Getting the necessary data in my head before I even bend over to stroke. Then judging my success on the outcome.
I am told to play for an area and do but it's a lot smaller area than the people telling me that too.
 
macguy:
Most top players although capable of playing very precis play more in a small zone. You want to be play in such a way you don't have to be perfect for the shot to be workable. The biggest problem with trying to be too perfect is you may increase the chances of missing the ball.
Click to expand...

I don't see the connection between playing for precise position and missing shots. In fact, I think playing precise position forces you to pay closer attention to where you hit the OB and makes your shooting better.

leehayes:
...I am told to play for an area and do but it's a lot smaller area than the people telling me that too.
Click to expand...

You should choose the position play that has the largest margin for error (a "zone" that's larger than a precise spot or an approach angle that's along the shot line rather than across it), but you should also aim for a precise spot within (probably in the center of) that zone. They're not mutually exclusive - you can, and should, do both.

pj
chgo
 
was just talking to a top instructor about this

All of the above posters are correct. Read PJ's post to find everything in one place. Try to park the cue ball exactly where you want it but also try to approach that spot from an angle that gives you the largest margin of error. Sometimes it is wiser to leave the cue ball where you have a tougher shot but larger margin for error too. Nobody including the top pro's park the cue ball where they want to every time playing rotation games where you have to move the cue ball around a lot.

I was talking to a top instructor only a few days ago and we talked about cue ball position. I commented that I put about 75-85% of my effort in a shot into cue ball placement, by doing this I didn't have tough shots that required a lot of effort as a general rule. He was in full agreement with this thought, indeed cue ball control is perhaps the main thing he teaches.

I will emphasis one more time, try to plan out your run to make the least demanding shots, both making the ball and positioning the cue ball. Running it all over the table is showy but the old schoolers I learned from always moved the cue ball as little as possible to get the next shot. Less traffic issues and usually the cue ball is closer to the spot you wanted it to be.

Hu
 
Patrick Johnson said:
You should choose the position play that has the largest margin for error (a "zone" that's larger than a precise spot or an approach angle that's along the shot line rather than across it), but you should also aim for a precise spot within (probably in the center of) that zone. They're not mutually exclusive - you can, and should, do both.
Click to expand...

Yep, this is the idea. Sometimes you may be better off not trying for "perfect" position, if there's a larger margin of error involved if you try for "okay" position. If I have the option of shooting a power stroke shot to get to the other end of the table for a shot, or playing a softer shot and taking a slightly longer shot with a little more cut angle, I very often opt not to go for perfect position. Also, if "perfect" position means fitting in a small gap, but there's "okay" position available in a large position zone, then I won't go for the small gap. You just have to weigh out risk/reward. If the positional reward does not outweigh the risks of going for that position, sometimes you should settle for "okay".

-Andrew
 
leehayes said:
One is that Jude says he'd choose a shot selection based on a few fractions of an inch.

.
Click to expand...


Well, I don't know if I'm right. I was simply stating my preference and why. In that example, it just appeared a bit uncomfortable to me. In fact, I should stipulate YESTERDAY it felt uncomfortable to me. Tomorrow, it might not. Tomorrow, I might be on a table that warrants I go the other way. You really need to be able to execute both since BOTH shots are going to come up again and again.

Regarding the "factions of an inch", that's all about being on the correct sid of the ball. In this instance, the stop shot leaves you on the incorrect side. Now, that's sometimes not a problem. If the angle is fairly shallow, you can still force the cueball in the intended direction. However, there comes a point where you're too far on the wrong side and will have to come up with something tricky.

IMO, recognizing the correct side is HUGE for most amateur players. Do it well and table problems unfold magically. Forget to do it and you will feel like you're tumbling down a mountain. The key to that particular shot was to get on the correct side by either using a little draw or a little follow (not getting stuck in the middle) so that you don't have to force position.
 
leehayes said:
One is that Jude says he'd choose a shot selection based on a few fractions of an inch.

.
Click to expand...


Well, I don't know if I'm right. I was simply stating my preference and why. In that example, it just appeared a bit uncomfortable to me. In fact, I should stipulate YESTERDAY it felt uncomfortable to me. Tomorrow, it might not. Tomorrow, I might be on a table that warrants I go the other way. You really need to be able to execute both since BOTH shots are going to come up again and again.

Regarding the "factions of an inch", that's all about being on the correct side of the ball. In this instance, the stop shot leaves you on the incorrect side. Now, that's sometimes not a problem. If the angle is fairly shallow, you can still force the cueball in the intended direction. However, there comes a point where you're too far on the wrong side and will have to come up with something tricky.

IMO, recognizing the correct side is HUGE for most amateur players. Do it well and table problems unfold magically. Forget to do it and you will feel like you're tumbling down a mountain. The key to that particular shot was to get on the correct side by either using a little draw or a little follow (not getting stuck in the middle) so that you don't have to force position.
 
Well guys thanks for the input. I didn't mean to make it sound like I shoot for exact position on each shot.
I leave myself alot of margin for error for that just in case issue, usually shooting the shot that gives me multiple choices in case I miss that spot.

I didn't learn the meaning of the right side of the ball until this year and that is actually where I strive to be when it matters such as in 9 ball.

Still miss it a lot of times but it was more wondering if I should continue to strive to hit that spot I mark rather than allowing for an area shot.
 
Just so ya know, Hu...NOBODY can control the CB. The only thing we have control of, is the cuestick...and our body controls the cuestick. Any good instructor should clearly understand this (let alone a "top" one).:D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

ShootingArts said:
I was talking to a top instructor only a few days ago and we talked about cue ball position. I commented that I put about 75-85% of my effort in a shot into cue ball placement, by doing this I didn't have tough shots that required a lot of effort as a general rule. He was in full agreement with this thought, indeed cue ball control is perhaps the main thing he teaches.

Hu
Click to expand...
 
guess you are right . . .

Scott Lee said:
Just so ya know, Hu...NOBODY can control the CB. The only thing we have control of, is the cuestick...and our body controls the cuestick. Any good instructor should clearly understand this (let alone a "top" one).:D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...


Scott,

Being an expert instructor you must be right. That also means that nobody controls a vehicle going down the highway since we don't directly align the front wheels where we want to go or directly turn the rear wheels how fast we want to go. Nor do we have any direct control over the brakes. Poor pilots and astronauts with fly by wire, even worse. Yikes!

I don't even have any control over what I am writing since I use a blue tooth keyboard and mouse. Next time Mr. Wilson or Mike slaps my wrist I am going to deny responsibility. I use a wireless network card so I have no control of what goes out over my lan and on to the net either.

I have set local records with pistols and shot under a world record with a rifle although it doesn't mean anything since it wasn't in an event that records could be set in. By your logic I had no control of the bullets. Speaking of which, do we free everyone that murdered someone with a gun since they had no control of the bullets?

You might be getting the drift by now that I don't buy your theory that we don't control the cue ball. In fact since we strike it directly unlike the object ball, we have more control over the cue ball than we have over the object ball. Fewer links in the chain going to it.

Hu
 
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leehayes said:
Well guys thanks for the input. I didn't mean to make it sound like I shoot for exact position on each shot.
I leave myself alot of margin for error for that just in case issue, usually shooting the shot that gives me multiple choices in case I miss that spot.

I didn't learn the meaning of the right side of the ball until this year and that is actually where I strive to be when it matters such as in 9 ball.

Still miss it a lot of times but it was more wondering if I should continue to strive to hit that spot I mark rather than allowing for an area shot.
Click to expand...

8 ball = more precise spot position
9 ball = more angle and cue ball path priority

But, always be aware going in to the shot of the vision......and after it to observe the results....non judgementally...to feed info to the computer:smile: A Very strong player from the past taught me to try and play position on a piece of chalk....keep it up, it does help, but KNOW which side to miss on especially in rotation games. Good luck

td
 
Jude:
IMO, recognizing the correct side is HUGE for most amateur players. Do it well and table problems unfold magically. Forget to do it and you will feel like you're tumbling down a mountain.
Click to expand...

This is among the most important things in position play and should be something we all learn as a fundamental and use instinctively, yet I often run into experienced players who forget to consider it from shot to shot.

I was the same way until I trained myself to see the "good side" and "bad side" of each shot the same way (and at the same time) I see the OB contact point. It's a simple matter of visualizing the line from the OB to the pocket, but extending it behind the OB at the same time, like this:

CueTable Help



pj
chgo
 
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