playing pocket speed

I don't know what the op meant, but to me pocket speed is shooting the shot with exactly as much speed as needed to drop the ball EVEN IF it slightly grazes the rail or hits the jaw of the pocket. If it will only go when hit cleanly, then it's not pocket speed.

I like that definition, and I've never heard it put quite like that.

I also think that you can jaw a ball by hitting it TOO soft. If you hit it just soft enough to dribble in, but you hit a little off so that it hits the cushion first, it might not go. So pocket speed is not "as soft as possible," it's just the speed that maximizes the chance that it drops.
 
That is not playing pocket speed. You have to hit the ball with sufficient energy to a) make the ball and b) gain shape.

It is not about hitting the ball slowly. It is about hitting the ball correctly. This is crucial on tough tables.



Actually, hitting the ball so that it just barely reaches the pocket and goes in, is the exact definition of pocket speed.

Here's an example (at the 6:30 mark) demonstrated by your boyfriend.

:lovies::wub::wub::wub::grin-loving::grin-loving::grin-loving::grin-loving::lovies::lovies:
 
Want to know what shows the dumbing down of AzB most clearly? This kind of nonsense.

pj
chgo

Really? Now you're targeting Tramp Steamer, easily the most likeable poster on the forum? Great, who will you go after next? Puppies, hot women at the poolhall? How about Dr. Dave? That would be a nice twist.

We're all sorry we can't live up to your standards of scientific excellence:rolleyes:. I value the lol's more than the physics lectures on here, because this is a pool forum, not a university. You've gotten some very servicable definitions on pocket speed, granted it would be hard to put into a formula, but someone of your immense intellect should be able to pull it off, maybe even come up with a better one. Get cracking!
 
If you hit center pocket all the time......the pocket size doesn't matter.

Pocket speed is the speed needed on the CB to make the OB just barely roll into the pocket.

Pocket acceptance speed is another thing. There are some pockets that just don't like certain speeds or angles into the pocket. Could be size, the shape and condition of the pocket shimming and so on.

Being able to use any speed to pocket a OB is a great asset to have.
 
Pocket speed is the speed needed on the CB to make the OB just barely roll into the pocket.

Pocket acceptance speed is another thing. There are some pockets that just don't like certain speeds or angles into the pocket. Could be size, the shape and condition of the pocket shimming and so on.

Being able to use any speed to pocket a OB is a great asset to have.
Why is pocket speed the speed to make it just barely roll in? Isn't that just minimum speed? I prefer straightpool_99's definition that it's the speed that maximizes the likelihood that the ball drops, even if it hits a rail going in. That's how people use the term, in my experience: "good thing he used pocket speed, or it would have jawed."
 
Why is pocket speed the speed to make it just barely roll in? Isn't that just minimum speed? I prefer straightpool_99's definition that it's the speed that maximizes the likelihood that the ball drops, even if it hits a rail going in. That's how people use the term, in my experience: "good thing he used pocket speed, or it would have jawed."

I appears that there are a lot of different meanings attached to the term. Some of the definitions I've seen in this thread would be more about playing correct angles or with a good stroke than "pocket speed", at least to me.
 
Why is pocket speed the speed to make it just barely roll in? Isn't that just minimum speed? I prefer straightpool_99's definition that it's the speed that maximizes the likelihood that the ball drops, even if it hits a rail going in. That's how people use the term, in my experience: "good thing he used pocket speed, or it would have jawed."

The lack of consistent terminology in pool is a issue as example by this thread and others.

That's why I came up with pocket acceptance speed to define the speed that a pocket likes. Pocket speed, to me, is the speed at which the OB barely makes the pocket.

The only way to know pocket acceptance speed is learn how to read how a pocket plays. This takes experience on a wide range of tables. If you just play on one table all the time, you will not truely learn how to read how a pocket plays.
 
I appears that there are a lot of different meanings attached to the term. Some of the definitions I've seen in this thread would be more about playing correct angles or with a good stroke than "pocket speed", at least to me.

Agreed. I wasn't happy with the term myself, and thought perhaps pocket weight instead, but liked that even less. Your definition is pretty much what i had in mind though.

What i was thinking about was this; how many times have you played a good player, who seems to make balls that you think they have missed? They may play a ball into the rail 2 diamonds from the pocket, you jump out of your chair in anticipation, only to have to sit back down again as the ball eventually wriggles in. You play the same shot and it rattles.
 
Hey Ron,

This may help.

Pocket speed for me is not to over or under hitting the OB. Its what I call a pure hit. This hit varies based on the distance between the QB and OB. When you hit them correctly you can hear the sound difference. Its a sharp sound and not a dull thud.

In other words shoot to the OB not thru the OB.

Here is a couple of guys that know a little about pocket speed playing for 3 day days that best describe what I'm trying to say. Pay attention to how they are striking the OB. Enjoy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgVPmjLkQq4

John :smile:
 
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Sooner or later it's inevitable; you must learn pocket speed. It's boring. It takes the fun out of the game, but it must be done.

Question is, how?

Some interesting posts about this. Some differing definitions on what pocket speed is. First there is the speed that is the exact speed at which a ball rolls cleanly into the pocket with just enough energy to make it over the shelf and fall into the hole. This speed should be learned as a baseline but should never be used for the following reasons some of which have already been mentioned. It it touches anything on the way into the hole it will not have enough energy to make it into the hole.

The most important reason, in my experience, is even at low speeds the shot must be executed with authority or it will become subject to what I call cloth effects. If you just try to barely roll a ball into the hole it will become drifty. Dirt, imperfections in the cloth, all kinds of things come into play. If you go to that speed and add a little acceleration to it even though it it the tiniest amount, the ball will hold a truer line. Straight pool players have all seen this. Shoot one from out of the stack into the far corner a little angle off of straight and hold the cue ball movement under 2 inches. You will see that on any table under the best conditions slow rolled balls will drift around all kind of ways.

I refer to the optimal speed as pocket speed plus one. Shoot the ball like the pocket had another pocket behind it and that is the one you are aiming for. The pocket plus one more pockets distance.

I was watching some snooker guys the other day who were doing a perfect example of what I am talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD2JmdmS1Oo

This was a safety battle but note that even though they were both hitting the ball at low speed, their cueing of the ball was still crisp and with authority.

What they were doing is also one of the ways I learned pocket speed. Put a ball in the pocket. Shoot another ball into it without making the first ball. Just roll up and touch it. Once you can do that, it is a simple matter to add to it and make the ball. One of the best things you can do is have the second object ball make the first and drift forward into the pocket replacing the position of the first without going to the side and touching the pocket jaws and not go into the pocket. Just replace the first ball on the pocket shelf. This will really hone your low speed skills.

It's kind of like the short game in golf. It is a critical skill set but no one ever wants to practice it.
 
What i was thinking about was this; how many times have you played a good player, who seems to make balls that you think they have missed? They may play a ball into the rail 2 diamonds from the pocket, you jump out of your chair in anticipation, only to have to sit back down again as the ball eventually wriggles in. You play the same shot and it rattles.

I've seen it many times, as I suspect most of us have. Sometimes it's just a matter of chance IMO, but pocket speed is a big part of it of course. At the slow speed even minor sidespin on the object ball might make a difference.
Disclaimer:
(I WOULD LIKE TO CLARIFY FOR ALL PHYSICS TROLLS THAT I'M PULLING THIS HYPOTHESIS OUT OF MY AXX, AND CANNOT BACK IT UP WITH A DOCTORAL DISSERTATION, NOR THOUSANDS OF CONTROLLED EXPERIMENTS)
 
Agreed. I wasn't happy with the term myself, and thought perhaps pocket weight instead, but liked that even less. Your definition is pretty much what i had in mind though.

What i was thinking about was this; how many times have you played a good player, who seems to make balls that you think they have missed? They may play a ball into the rail 2 diamonds from the pocket, you jump out of your chair in anticipation, only to have to sit back down again as the ball eventually wriggles in. You play the same shot and it rattles.

The guy I learned from taught me to do it both ways at will. I could clip the rail and jar it in the pocket or clip the rail and have it go in. This was back when I wanted to be a hustler. I did not have a taste for it. I felt like I was cheating. Guys playing me would figure I was just getting lucky clipping the rail jiggling the ball have having it go in. When it didn't they figured my luck had run out. They never figured out I was shooting it into the rail every single time on purpose just to draw them in.

Try it yourself. It is not as hard as you might think.
 
the most frequent time i hear the term "pocket speed" used is when playing one pocket and typically referring to bank shots. that's about the only time i bare down and truly focus on playing pocket speed. otherwise i'm more concerned with what the individual shot dictates i need to do. that said...playing one pocket will definitely help hone your pocket speed shooting skills.....on the table that you play that game on.
 
The guy I learned from taught me to do it both ways at will. I could clip the rail and jar it in the pocket or clip the rail and have it go in. This was back when I wanted to be a hustler. I did not have a taste for it. I felt like I was cheating. Guys playing me would figure I was just getting lucky clipping the rail jiggling the ball have having it go in. When it didn't they figured my luck had run out. They never figured out I was shooting it into the rail every single time on purpose just to draw them in.

Try it yourself. It is not as hard as you might think.

How do you do it?
 
Playing pocket speed is NOT speed control. But i don't understand your drill? :confused:

Playing pocket speed means understanding how hard/soft to hit a ball in order for it to reach the pocket and fall nicely. By shooting from short rail to short rail you're developing the know-how of hard /soft you've got to hit ball to go the length of the table.

That speed is pretty close to what the average pocket speed shot is (when the table is fast anyway).
 
I also think that you can jaw a ball by hitting it TOO soft. If you hit it just soft enough to dribble in, but you hit a little off so that it hits the cushion first, it might not go. So pocket speed is not "as soft as possible," it's just the speed that maximizes the chance that it drops.

I agree. When I was practicing the "leave it just short" speed, it became obvious that a shot that would barely roll into the center of the pocket could, if missed slightly, hit one face then stop in the jaws .... if hit just a hair harder it would have dropped. I suppose that would also depend on the cut of the corner and the shelf depth too.

Dave
 
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