Playing the Ghost, A Better way.

[christopheradam]

I'm not sure I agree with changing sticks to play as the ghost. You should have a stick that you are used to playing with when you are playing or practicing. Playing with a different stick between player and ghost player seems as though you would be creating confusing situations with muscle memory, part of becoming a good player is having the familiararity of how your stick plays.

If you have solid fundamentals you should be able to play with any cue with a good tip and that is fairly straight. Like Bob byrnes has said, "Give me a broom with a good tip, I'll make some nice shots, and sweep the joint up afterwards",

 

[GeraldG]

Is that a realistic game situation? You miss and the ghost gets out. Sure, if its an open table with no clusters but isn't it better to play the table and learn what safety is in order, learn your kicks, and play the balls.

Yeah, it's pretty realistic. When you have two players that are at a level of play where they are capable of getting out under most conditions, what happens when one misses? Most times the other one gets out from there. Playing the Ghost is intended to simulate playing the best player in the world...one that can get out 100 times out of 100 from anywhere. He is giving you the weight (because everyone is a lesser player than the Ghost) by giving you the breaks and ball-in-hand on the first shot. The premise is that if you miss, the Ghost WILL get out, so if you miss you lose. It's probably not a realistic game for lower ranked players, but it wasn't intended for that. It was intended for people that are capable of running out with some degree of consistency.


Playing Solo 8-ball or Solo 9-ball (playing for both players) is not the same thing. You can call it whatever you want...it's your nickel. But it's not the same as playing the Ghost. Playing the Ghost is a real game. The fact that you call it playing the Ghost doesn't make it so...sorry. That's like calling 9-ball "14.1 Continuous" and expecting everyone to go along with you...they are different games. Playing Solo games is probably a lot better practice for lower-ranked players than playing the Ghost because it's not going to be as frustrating. If you can't run out a rack of 9-ball you're never going to win playing the Ghost.

 

[cheemagun]

Yeah, it's pretty realistic. When you have two players that are at a level of play where they are capable of getting out under most conditions, what happens when one misses? Most times the other one gets out from there. Playing the Ghost is intended to simulate playing the best player in the world...one that can get out 100 times out of 100 from anywhere. He is giving you the weight (because everyone is a lesser player than the Ghost) by giving you the breaks and ball-in-hand on the first shot. The premise is that if you miss, the Ghost WILL get out, so if you miss you lose. It's probably not a realistic game for lower ranked players, but it wasn't intended for that. It was intended for people that are capable of running out with some degree of consistency.


Playing Solo 8-ball or Solo 9-ball (playing for both players) is not the same thing. You can call it whatever you want...it's your nickel. But it's not the same as playing the Ghost. Playing the Ghost is a real game. The fact that you call it playing the Ghost doesn't make it so...sorry. That's like calling 9-ball "14.1 Continuous" and expecting everyone to go along with you...they are different games. Playing Solo games is probably a lot better practice for lower-ranked players than playing the Ghost because it's not going to be as frustrating. If you can't run out a rack of 9-ball you're never going to win playing the Ghost.

great breakdown. and it is a gambling game.

 

[chefjeff]

Is that a realistic game situation? You miss and the ghost gets out. Sure, if its an open table with no clusters but isn't it better to play the table and learn what safety is in order, learn your kicks, and play the balls.

It CAN be better to do as you say, depending on what you're practicing. But you were talking about playing the ghost. Playing the ghost is for a particular reason. Yes, practicing safeties, kicks, etc. is very important, but is it really the reason you chose to play the ghost? I think not.

Read my last sentence again and this clears this up:

The ghost is to practice competing, not to practice practicing.

Jeff Livingston

 

[christopheradam]

Yeah, it's pretty realistic. When you have two players that are at a level of play where they are capable of getting out under most conditions, what happens when one misses? Most times the other one gets out from there. Playing the Ghost is intended to simulate playing the best player in the world...one that can get out 100 times out of 100 from anywhere. He is giving you the weight (because everyone is a lesser player than the Ghost) by giving you the breaks and ball-in-hand on the first shot. The premise is that if you miss, the Ghost WILL get out, so if you miss you lose. It's probably not a realistic game for lower ranked players, but it wasn't intended for that. It was intended for people that are capable of running out with some degree of consistency.


Playing Solo 8-ball or Solo 9-ball (playing for both players) is not the same thing. You can call it whatever you want...it's your nickel. But it's not the same as playing the Ghost. Playing the Ghost is a real game. The fact that you call it playing the Ghost doesn't make it so...sorry. That's like calling 9-ball "14.1 Continuous" and expecting everyone to go along with you...they are different games. Playing Solo games is probably a lot better practice for lower-ranked players than playing the Ghost because it's not going to be as frustrating. If you can't run out a rack of 9-ball you're never going to win playing the Ghost.

Seems just the opposite to me. Its a drill for the lesser ranked player.
I think the traditional "play the ghost" is just a ego boost for players that want to run racks but can't do it from the break. Taking ball in hand after the break just isn't a realistic game situation. If your playing the best player in the world you should try to play them straight up and get your break working. If you are controlling the cue ball off the break, you shouldn't need ball in hand. Look how important the break is in a pro event. If you are totally skipping this section in your play, you are not working on a major part of your game.
I'm not expecting anyone to go along with anything. I just made a suggestion that has helped my game by playing with 2 cues in my pracice session.
I would never call 14.1, "9ball". Straight pool actually requires you to think. I could never confuse the 2 games . I have though of a game called 8.1 continuous. Basically 9ball played like straight pool. I gave it a shot and it was too hard to play. Hitting balls in order then worrying about a break shot. 14.1 is hard enough, don't need to hit the balls in rotation as well
I may try 8.1 continuous without the rotation part and see how that works though. I also am going to post in the main forum and see if anyone has any suggestions on an 8.1 continuous game. Thanks for making me remember about this thought I had a while back.

 

[GeraldG]

Seems just the opposite to me. Its a drill for the lesser ranked player.
I think the traditional "play the ghost" is just a ego boost for players that want to run racks but can't do it from the break. Taking ball in hand after the break just isn't a realistic game situation. If your playing the best player in the world you should try to play them straight up and get your break working. If you are controlling the cue ball off the break, you shouldn't need ball in hand. Look how important the break is in a pro event. If you are totally skipping this section in your play, you are not working on a major part of your game.
I'm not expecting anyone to go along with anything. I just made a suggestion that has helped my game by playing with 2 cues in my pracice session.
I would never call 14.1, "9ball". Straight pool actually requires you to think. I could never confuse the 2 games . I have though of a game called 8.1 continuous. Basically 9ball played like straight pool. I gave it a shot and it was too hard to play. Hitting balls in order then worrying about a break shot. 14.1 is hard enough, don't need to hit the balls in rotation as well
I may try 8.1 continuous without the rotation part and see how that works though. I also am going to post in the main forum and see if anyone has any suggestions on an 8.1 continuous game. Thanks for making me remember about this thought I had a while back.

For strictly practice, you may have a valid point. What you have to remember is that playing the Ghost is a GAMBLING game....and quite often not for small money. I've seen races to 11 against the Ghost for $10,000.00. Evening up with weight is very common practice in matching up pool games. One of the things that a better player often gives up to a lesser player is the breaks, and sometimes ball-in-hand if the difference is really big. Another way is giving up games on the wire and yet another is giving up more money balls....there are lots of ways to do it. If you consider that no real player is capable of running out 100% of the time, then that means he (if he existed) would have to give every other player in the world some sort of weight to even things up. Nobody I've ever seen is capable of breaking and running enough consecutive 9-ball racks without some sort of weight to be confident enough to play the Ghost that way for any appreciable amount of money. I've seen some people run several racks in a row from the break, but it's not something that you're going to get them to bet big money on....there's too much chance of getting hooked on the break, etc.

If you think it sounds too easy, then give it a try. Try racing the Ghost to 10 or 11 games, taking ball-in-hand on the first shot after the break. If you scratch on the break, any balls that are pocketed on the break are spotted up and you take ball-in hand. If you make a legal break without scratching, any balls that are pocketed stay down and you take ball-in hand and run out from there. You cannot play safeties, you must pocket a ball every shot. If you miss a shot, you lose. You cannot play combinations on the 9-ball, and a 9-ball pocketed on the break is spotted back up. You can play combinations on any ball other than the 9-ball as long as you hit the lowest numbered ball on the table first.

If you can consistently win at this (more than 50% of the time), then you need to hit the road. If you can even occasionally win (more than 10% of the time), you are an above average player. Videotape it and let us see.

 

[sniper]

To play the ghost:

1. Rack for whatever game you're playing (usually 9-ball, 10-ball or 7-ball)

2. Break

3. Take ball-in-hand on the first shot after the break

4. run out.

If you fail to run out, the ghost wins.

This seems the most common way of playing the ghost. The nice thing about playing the ghost is the came can be adjusted so many different ways to level out the competition, some weaker players I know will take BIH and be able to take a ball of their choice off the table except the nine of course, this helps if there happens to be a cluster out there.

 

[TommyT]

An excellent way to play the ghost for 8 ball is this. Throw out the high balls and the 8. Ball in hand and try to get out. If you don't, place a low ball in the center area and put the other high balls back on the table. Each time you fail to get out keep putting more low balls on the table. I usually race to 5. You would be surprised how much more difficult it is as you keep adding balls.
TommyT

 

[CaptainJR]

I still think your idea of using another stick to play against yourself is a very good idea. It may not be playing the ghost, but that is OK. I'm going to be using it. First off, I like taking the first shot from where it lies. Use that first shot to get in line then stay there. When I goof up If my imaginary opponent has an easy out, start a new one. If it looks like there could be trouble, I'm going to try it with a different cue stick. This way I won't miss out on any opportunities to learn something.

Thanks again christopheradam

 

[Black-Balled]

Is that a realistic game situation? You miss and the ghost gets out. Sure, if its an open table with no clusters but isn't it better to play the table and learn what safety is in order, learn your kicks, and play the balls.

But, 9b is an easy game. If you wanna play at the top level then you have to be able to win every game given ANY shot. Then you have to break and run 3 racks So if you start out slow, take break& bih&7 from the Ghostine. Play race to 7 then work your way to playing ghostine even.

 

[GeraldG]

I think "for practice" you should only take ball in hand after the break if your hooked, or have no reasonably makeable shot... Part of practice is the break...and is a big separation between good players and "World Beaters" is control of the table after the break....JMO

Yeah...but, you always have the option of declining BIH. If you like where the cueball is, then just play it from there.

 

[Black-Balled]

I think "for practice" you should only take ball in hand after the break if your hooked, or have no reasonably makeable shot... Part of practice is the break...and is a big separation between good players and "World Beaters" is control of the table after the break....JMO

A very good point.

 

[pharaoh68]

Playing both sides is good for practice purposes. There's no doubt about that. But when it comes to actually "playing the ghost", it is a gambling game. You are betting someone (who is not even playing) that you can and will run out. He/she is betting against you. Running a artack and playing both sides (you and your opponent) is simply just practicing. And there is nothing wrong with practice. Like they say, practice makes perfect.

 

[Blackjack]

But, 9b is an easy game.

No it isn't.
9 ball is a game that does not get the respect it deserves for its complexity. If it was easy, then everybody would be breaking and running out, stringing 7-8 racks together at will.

About practicing using the ghost method:

I like it and then I don't like it. It takes away the opportunity for safeties, kicks, and other tools you will need when you are in a real match against a real person. I have always used a system I call "The Rope & Ladder".

The Rope & Ladder is a group of 10 game of 9 ball. I call it "The Rope & Ladder" because you recieve 1 point for each ball pocketed, plus 2 points for the 9 ball. You can "climb the ladder" pocketing balls 1-8, only to hang yourself on the 9 ball. I added this as a practice method in my book, "Lessons in 9 Ball". Here is the text from that section:

The Rope & Ladder
You Play 10 racks of 9 ball. Each ball represents a point value. If you break & do not make a ball, you score a zero for that rack. You have the option of taking ball in hand to run out that rack (which will represent a new rack), or you can re-rack and break again. If you choose to take ball in hand, you will only receive 9 points for running that rack, not 10. Each ball is worth 1 point, the 9 ball is worth 2 points (unless you took ball in hand after making no balls on the break). If you break and run out, you score 10 points. In all other instances, you get the point value of the last ball pocketed. So if you miss the 6 ball, you recieve 5 points, regardless of whether or not the 5 went in on the break or if the 7 and 8 are not on the table. You do this for 10 racks, and then you add your score. You will get a pretty good idea of your runout percentage by doing this. It is my advice that you do The Rope & Ladder at the beginning and end of each practice. You can keep a record of your average or your runout percentage on a daily/weekly/monthly basis.

This is also a great way of evaluating what shots you are missing during practice. A video camera is an excellent tool that can help you evaluate not only the shots you miss, but how and why you are missing them.

 

[GeraldG]

No it isn't.
9 ball is a game that does not get the respect it deserves for its complexity. If it was easy, then everybody would be breaking and running out, stringing 7-8 racks together at will.

About practicing using the ghost method:

I like it and then I don't like it. It takes away the opportunity for safeties, kicks, and other tools you will need when you are in a real match against a real person. I have always used a system I call "The Rope & Ladder".

The Rope & Ladder is a group of 10 game of 9 ball. I call it "The Rope & Ladder" because you recieve 1 point for each ball pocketed, plus 2 points for the 9 ball. You can "climb the ladder" pocketing balls 1-8, only to hang yourself on the 9 ball. I added this as a practice method in my book, "Lessons in 9 Ball". Here is the text from that section:

The Rope & Ladder
You Play 10 racks of 9 ball. Each ball represents a point value. If you break & do not make a ball, you score a zero for that rack. You have the option of taking ball in hand to run out that rack (which will represent a new rack), or you can re-rack and break again. If you choose to take ball in hand, you will only receive 9 points for running that rack, not 10. Each ball is worth 1 point, the 9 ball is worth 2 points (unless you took ball in hand after making no balls on the break). If you break and run out, you score 10 points. In all other instances, you get the point value of the last ball pocketed. So if you miss the 6 ball, you recieve 5 points, regardless of whether or not the 5 went in on the break or if the 7 and 8 are not on the table. You do this for 10 racks, and then you add your score. You will get a pretty good idea of your runout percentage by doing this. It is my advice that you do The Rope & Ladder at the beginning and end of each practice. You can keep a record of your average or your runout percentage on a daily/weekly/monthly basis.

This is also a great way of evaluating what shots you are missing during practice. A video camera is an excellent tool that can help you evaluate not only the shots you miss, but how and why you are missing them.

Now, THAT would be a lot better practice game than playing the Ghost. It makes you think about what you are doing and sort of chart your progress. One thing that's not clear is whether you take ball in hand if you DO pocket a ball on the break.

 

[Blackjack]

Now, THAT would be a lot better practice game than playing the Ghost. It makes you think about what you are doing and sort of chart your progress. One thing that's not clear is whether you take ball in hand if you DO pocket a ball on the break.

No. That is against the rules. If you make a ball on the break, but do not get a shot on the one ball, the rack ends when you miss, and you will receive no point value. It is complete offense and forces you to run out. If I don't have shot, I will usually play safe, even if it does end my inning.

 

[mjantti]

I was just shooting balls tonight and was playing like crap. Well, I thought to get my motivation into the game and played one set against the ghost. Beat the ghost 10-6. Well, the table was breaking easily and I had a couple of easy early 9-ball combos but still I like the game.

When there is something on the line, I always shoot much better. Practising alone otherwise won't give me enough motivation to start playing well. If I'm shooting them straight, it doesn't matter what game I play, it's fun. If I'm ducking them, then I want to have my motivation and thus full concentration brought in and I need to learn how to start shooting them straight within short period of time. Actually, I've learned a thing or two about my shooting rhythm and motivation during these practice sessions when I add something to motivate me, like playing the ghost. And no, I don't like drills. I rather shoot some game or so and keep track of my score, for instance shooting straight pool and keeping score of my points and innings to calculate my average after I made 200 points or something like that...

 

[k-carson]

Maybe it's not everyones normal definition for "playing the ghost" but it is mine. When I play the ghost I am in an actual game situation. I think my definition of the "playing the ghost" is more like actually playing a ghost. Taking ball and hand and trying to run out should be called "ball in hand pool" or "the run out drill". Whatever it is called, how about "simulated competition" I find is great practice and has really helped me.
And I only take ball in hand after the break when someone scratches off the break.

the real problem i see with this is you need to practice and play with opponents better than you to improve , if i understand you correctly
you are doing the shooting for the ghost as well so its not as challenging as it could be

if you are not at a level that you dont have a fair chance at playing the ghost then consider this if you mess up allow yourself to play safeties against the ghost THEN YOU shoot that shot only for the ghost
and you continue playing till you get out or miss limit your safetys to
say 1 per rack