Everyone could and should learn from this post. If you don't know what I mean when I say that just ask and Greg will explain it to you.I am coming in late and confession is I haven't read all 6 pages.
In the beginning, I considered it paying for lessons. I could win money in B tournament and ring games. I then had a budget to invest in lessons.
When Backward Jan made his loop through the Seattle Tacoma area, I started playing him once a week on his Tacoma route. I budgeted $20 and my initial goal was to see how long I could make it last. It didn't take long for me to figure that it lasted as long as he was in the mood for, usually about an hour. So after a few of the "lessons" I realized that I could possibly get more for the money by asking him for lessons. Regular lessons not just trying to learn from watching.
His answer to my request surprised me in a good way. His stipulation was, he would give me lessons on the condition that we go back to the basics.(I considered myself a B+ almost Aplayer) His answer showed me that he not only knew how to play but also knew how to teach. 6 weeks at $20@ was the best money I ever invested in my pool game. Oh yeah, his second stipulation was, no gambling while taking lessons.
Oh yeah after 6 weeks when he headed south for Arizona, I made my investment back double the first week.
Playing up against better players-advice please
- Thread starter TeddyKGB
- Start date
I didn't, and based on posting history I don't know if I have the time to have it explained to me either...lol
I don't doubt the value of lessons. I do doubt the vast majority of those peddling them though.
Slow flash to bang but in truth I recognized that I was extremely unlikely to change your mindset. Reading again today I realize that others might be reading along and trying to explain might be of value to them.
If we get shape we almost never miss a ball. Getting shape means getting the cue ball to where you can pocket the next ball and get shape on the next ball after that, over and over. The less you have to force either of these things the better your shape was.
To pocket a ball you get to select a spot on the object ball that will result in it falling in a pocket. I imagine hearing a great collective "Duh" when people read this!(grin) To get shape, We have to first hit the object ball at a spot dictated to pocket the object ball, then go from there as many rails as needed to get shape and the speed has to be right to stop where we need to. Of course often traffic has to be negotiated also.
Obviously the percentages vary from shot to shot but if I were to pick an overall focus to pocket a ball and get spot shape on the next one I would say that only twenty percent of my focus is on making the object ball. It is made when I hit the selected spot on it, no more attention needed. Most shots none of the things I have to consider to make shape come into play to pocket the object ball. The cue ball which usually is traveling much further, coming off of rails, through traffic, perhaps striking other balls intentionally, that is the part of the shot to get right!
Shape isn't getting a shot on the next ball. Shape is getting a shot on the next ball that the average barroom banger can make and the angle is right so that the only thing you have to consider to have the same type of shape on the next ball is cue ball speed. One of the ultimate practitioners of this if not the ultimate was Willie Mosconi. Somebody that had never hit a ball could watch one of Mosconi's exhibitions and believe that they could buy a table and be running hundreds in a few weeks. Willie made the game seem ridiculously simple, partially because for him the physical side of the game was simple and easy most of the time.
Playing adequate shape can leave a player struggling every shot. Playing good shape makes the game easy. Not that acquiring the skills to begin with comes easy. After I thought I was a pretty fair pool player and knew how to play shape I still had to put in low thousands of hours learning how to play shape.
A simple way to see rather shape or pocketing a ball is harder is to reverse things. Play the object ball off of the cue ball every shot and pocket the object ball. Now instead of having a nice stationary pattern to work with, you are recreating the pattern every shot. That cue ball you just knocked around to make this shot has to be located where you can hit it and pocket the next ball. One or two games might be pretty easy sometimes but try beating the ghost in a race to seven or nine. Billiard players will be much more at home.
Hu
Remember this…….Advice is worth exactly how much you paid to obtain it, like with a lawyer, doctor or accountant.
Otherwise it is merely another person’s opinion and by now, most of us have learned that varies from person to person.
Having said that, I reluctantly use the term “advice” in my post but based upon the way the Forum works, I guess it is.
Instead, I hope you’ll view my remarks as a reflection of my pool philosophy that extends into all aspects of the game.
The advice of playing against stronger players is based on your ability to observe them and the way they play, stroke the ball, shot selection, CB position, utilize safety play, bridge distance, pre-shot routine, play hard cut shots, backward cut shots, frozen OB rail shots, bank shots, safeties, center ball use……OMG…..there is so much you can acquire in wisdom and knowledge by watching closely when it’s not your turn. Watch their pace of play, how they walk to their next shot, observe their practice strokes and how they stroke through the cue ball instead of pushing it. You don’t get to learn most of this by not playing against better players. Sure you can watch a match but it’s not the same as playing it where you are inside the ropes, up close where the action is happening. Most importantly, you get to feel pressure, test your nerves. And hopefully, garnish some “nice shot” comments from your opponent instead of mostly offering it.
It sucks to get beaten but when anyone masters the table and dominates me in a match where I don’t get many shots,
I learn a lot from seeing how someone plays the table as well as intensifying my desire to competeimprove. Think of it this way….Handicaps were invented to try establishing an equal playing field. Whatever your level of play is currently, everyone always wants to get better and improve as a player. Your goal should be to drive your handicap in the ground like a tent stake. Make it as low as possible because it’s your gauges progress & is feedback about your improvement. The only way to accomplish this is by playing better, stronger players more often otherwise you will fall into mediocrity and unintentionally plateau your game. You’ll create a false ceiling. Example: you see or read comments from players complaining how their game seems to gotten stuck. They can’t figure out why and play good, even great at times but the next occasion can’t run more than 3-4 balls. If you play better players often enough, well, that shouldn’t happen very often, if at all.
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A story for you: Early on in my pool playing career I used to play in a Thursday night tournament in Philly. World class players were in that thing every week mainly because there were so few actual tournaments or sanctioned competitions. Allen Hopkins, Jim Rempe, Jimmy Fusco, Mike Sigel, Spanish Mike Lebron, Steve Mizerak, and a dozen other world class players would show up to that cheap tournament from time to time. What you must understand is that there is absolutely NO such thing as a loss. Regardless of who played in a match I would constantly see the "loser" immediately after the match, reset the shot that cost him the game, and shoot it 10....20 times. That "loser" didn't lose. He learned. I saw one of the above mentioned players "lose" a match and then practice for 6 hours on precisely the things he did wrong. Rarely if EVER does a pool player beat another player. We beat ourselves. We had our chances but didn't capitalize on them. That's not the other players fault so it doesn't matter one iota how good the other player is or what his rating is. Ages ago Thomas Edison was interviewed by some newspaper or such. They stated, "Hey Tom.....how many times did you try to invent the light bulb?" "1000?" "How did you not give up after 999 failures?" Edison said, "I never had 999 failures. I learned 999 ways that a light bulb wouldn't work." Pool is the exact same thing. Tenacity. You are absolutely never playing an opponent..........ever. Think about it. When you're at that table there's not a damn thing that guy can do to affect your performance. You're playing yourself. If a bowler throws a 300 his opponent is given the opportunity to tie. If a golfer hits a hole in one 18 times in a row HIS opponent is given the chance to tie. That same consideration is NOT given to pool. If a player breaks and runs out every game of the set from the very first break you lose and never got to play. And trust me, that's happened to me and I'm sure a ton of other players reading this thread. I lost a coin toss and the "opponent" ran 7 racks of 9 ball on me from the break with only one interruption. He played a safe that had me totally locked down. I had one opportunity in 7 games; six breaks, 63 balls and one safe and I got one chance. Immediately thereafter I went to an open table and set up the safe he'd hit me with and practiced hitting that almost impossible ball. I learned how to hit that ball and and occasionally leave another safe so........I won. I had the same thing happen twice in a straight pool tournament. Broke, left a shot, the incoming player ran 125 and out. Also saw a similar circumstance where the incoming player ran a 124, one-stroked the game ball, miscued and his opponent ran a 125 and out. You can never take any shot for granted and you should learn from every ball you shoot at and every ball your opponent shoots or plays safe on. Turn your phone off. Stay focused on the game and wait for YOUR turn. (How people sit by playing on their phone while their opponent runs out is utterly beyond me) Sidebar, that Thomas Edison story is completely true but paraphrased into oblivion. Second sidebar.....where else would you ever be able to compete and LEARN from significantly better players for such a paltry fee than in a weekly tournament? Trying to play them for money would cost you a fortune to learn the same lessons. Final sidebar......Promise. I once saw a world class player playing another of his speed. The second dude shot some amazingly creative shot. Player 1 couldn't comprehend what he saw so he raked the balls in, effectively giving player 2 the game AND the money, set the balls back up and said, "Shoot that again." I ask you......who won that game? Always remember.......no one EVER learned ANYthing from his wins.
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Backward Jan was willing to give lessons providing that his pupil was willing to admit that he didn't know what he didn't know. I, and you also, have run across a ton of "B" players who think they know whats going on but really don't. Think back to the post by Shavari where you argued that someone's fargo would have a bearing on how they viewed the correct way to play the runout. Half the people insisted pocket C was correct and continued to believe it even after 12 top pros all said that A would be their choice.
What I think is important to take away from Gregs post is that the best way to improve at this game is to find someone who "really" knows what they're doing and then let them begin to teach you about the things that you don't know.
Playing 8 ball or 9 ball is not particularly good practice. Here is what I you should do.
Use your league nights and tournaments to identify your weaknesses. Take notes. Write them down.
Use your practice time to practice your identified weaknesses.
And always practice your fundamentals. Body position, head down, stay down, smooth stroke, follow through ect.
Video tape your practice. See your fundamentals.
Use practice time to add more shots and skills to your game. I'm sure as a 5/6 there are shots you won't try, or don't know to try in your competitive games. Watch what the better players play and practice those.
And don't worry about winning or losing. The question is "how well did I play?"