Playing with worse players ~ Need your help!

[JB Cases]

Efren was asked what the single most important thing is for a pool player. He said focus.

He practices like he plays and vice versa.

Johnny Archer once said he gives up a lot of weight to local players to stay sharp. If you are losing to weaker players who will play you even then you first need to teach yourself to drill them. Then once you can easily drill them give them weight to make it competitive.

I personally used to even give up more weight than I could handle just to have to really push myself. Also giving up a lot of weight in the form of balls makes you learn different patterns to adjust for keeping your opponent away from those balls.

You will be surprised what you can do when you take a couple hundred and split it into 5-10 bullets and play cheap sets giving up weight.

 

[naji]

Hey AZB

Been playing pool seriously for about 2 years and I have reached a B/B+ level. I can beat the 9-ball ghost in a race to 7 quite often and I enjoy practicing for several hours. And of course I go to tournaments etc.

My problem is, that whenever I play a set with another player for practice, (we just play for the table time, 9-ball race to 9 or 11) I lose very often even by players who are significantly worse than me.

If I play a player who is better, I will do my best to play good and I usually do play good, but still, it is very hard to beat my opponent as he is better and I lose very often. Now if I play a player who is worse, I will usually be unfocused, or playing sloppy. And I will lose again. It is like I am not motivated enough to beat a player who is not as good as me when we are just practicing by playing for the table time.

But what am I supposed to do? I am trying to concentrate and play the table, not think who my opponent is etc. but I don't seem to have found out how just yet. Maybe I am still very inexperienced pool-mentality-wise, I don't know... on the other hand, I don't have this problem in tournament play. I got the motivation to win in order to advance and I usually beat a lesser player. But when I am approached by a lesser player who wants to play with me (I never say no to anyone of course) while I am practicing or just hanging around the pool room, I will play him and almost never win for the reasons I explained above. It's like I feel I have nothing to gain by beating a worse player in practice. I would actually prefer to practice straight pool alone and try to make a good run than play with another player. So in general, Lack of motivation ---> lack of concentration ---> almost certain defeat.

How can I treat that? Or I am just asking too much from myself for the brief time I have been playing pool?

I was like you for almost 27 years, never consistent during a match play, that is because i used to practice randomly without the advance knowledge in mind. I want to be frank with you, and please do not be upset. For anyone to miss repeatedly during matches or money game usually do not have the required advance knowledge, or have it but cannot apply properly. Here is my advise to you:
Your goal should be:
Learn the advance knowledge of game (secrets)
Change to LD cue at first, when you master it, you can try HD cue, then house cues, learn your cue at all distances
Learn the true cause of why you miss, at times we blame on stroke other times on aim..etc. This critical for improvement
Since you still miss shots during matches, practicing 9 ball is not good enough, you need to shoot and master most of the 4000 shots possibilities in pool while at practice, and also during matches where possible, even if you loose try hard shots take notes if you miss.
Never practice with straight pool or 8 ball or one pocket until your shot making ability is raised to 98%, this is critical
Concentrate on harder shots larger than 1/2 ball cuts as much as you can
Know and record the best time you shoot good, or you think shoot good, try to know, something like, before meal, after smoke, before work, after work, free mind, wife is out of the way, kids out of the way, maybe when you leave pool for a day or so, what you find will help you guide your self thinking
Aim, lots of people do not agree with me, but i find that at times i do need more time to focus, so if you see your self miss, give more focus time
Never play for fun,

Have fun..

 

[TRWpool]

One other avenue you might take while playing an opponent or just practicing by yourself is to imagine players you have great respect for are watching you play. You want to show them just how well you can handle a cue stick and you are prepared to offer up your very best effort.
Concentrate on the game though not on the spectators, imagined or real.

Tom

 

[naji]

One other avenue you might take while playing an opponent or just practicing by yourself is to imagine players you have great respect for are watching you play. You want to show them just how well you can handle a cue stick and you are prepared to offer up your very best effort.
Concentrate on the game though not on the spectators, imagined or real.

Tom

Tom, JW says he is a B/B+ player so he will miss regardless, and cannot show good stick yet, see my previous post.

 

[the kidd]

Dont miss

Don't miss a shot and you wont ever lose. AND to do this get Jimmy Reid s No time for negatives!

Hey AZB

Been playing pool seriously for about 2 years and I have reached a B/B+ level. I can beat the 9-ball ghost in a race to 7 quite often and I enjoy practicing for several hours. And of course I go to tournaments etc.

My problem is, that whenever I play a set with another player for practice, (we just play for the table time, 9-ball race to 9 or 11) I lose very often even by players who are significantly worse than me.

If I play a player who is better, I will do my best to play good and I usually do play good, but still, it is very hard to beat my opponent as he is better and I lose very often. Now if I play a player who is worse, I will usually be unfocused, or playing sloppy. And I will lose again. It is like I am not motivated enough to beat a player who is not as good as me when we are just practicing by playing for the table time.

But what am I supposed to do? I am trying to concentrate and play the table, not think who my opponent is etc. but I don't seem to have found out how just yet. Maybe I am still very inexperienced pool-mentality-wise, I don't know... on the other hand, I don't have this problem in tournament play. I got the motivation to win in order to advance and I usually beat a lesser player. But when I am approached by a lesser player who wants to play with me (I never say no to anyone of course) while I am practicing or just hanging around the pool room, I will play him and almost never win for the reasons I explained above. It's like I feel I have nothing to gain by beating a worse player in practice. I would actually prefer to practice straight pool alone and try to make a good run than play with another player. So in general, Lack of motivation ---> lack of concentration ---> almost certain defeat.

How can I treat that? Or I am just asking too much from myself for the brief time I have been playing pool?

 

[TheThaiger]

The master has spoken, we needn't provide superfluous advice.

He did? What did he say?

 

[EasyEJL]

Hey AZB

Been playing pool seriously for about 2 years and I have reached a B/B+ level. I can beat the 9-ball ghost in a race to 7 quite often and I enjoy practicing for several hours. And of course I go to tournaments etc.

My problem is, that whenever I play a set with another player for practice, (we just play for the table time, 9-ball race to 9 or 11) I lose very often even by players who are significantly worse than me.

If I play a player who is better, I will do my best to play good and I usually do play good, but still, it is very hard to beat my opponent as he is better and I lose very often. Now if I play a player who is worse, I will usually be unfocused, or playing sloppy. And I will lose again. It is like I am not motivated enough to beat a player who is not as good as me when we are just practicing by playing for the table time.

But what am I supposed to do? I am trying to concentrate and play the table, not think who my opponent is etc. but I don't seem to have found out how just yet. Maybe I am still very inexperienced pool-mentality-wise, I don't know... on the other hand, I don't have this problem in tournament play. I got the motivation to win in order to advance and I usually beat a lesser player. But when I am approached by a lesser player who wants to play with me (I never say no to anyone of course) while I am practicing or just hanging around the pool room, I will play him and almost never win for the reasons I explained above. It's like I feel I have nothing to gain by beating a worse player in practice. I would actually prefer to practice straight pool alone and try to make a good run than play with another player. So in general, Lack of motivation ---> lack of concentration ---> almost certain defeat.

How can I treat that? Or I am just asking too much from myself for the brief time I have been playing pool?

I'm similar, although not exactly. I can't beat the ghost like that, at most i'm getting 4-5 ball runs. But playing in APA I'm ranked as a 2. The horrifying part of that? If I play a 4 or 5, I beat them, just about every time. If I play a 2 or 1 I lose just about every time. If I play a 3, its iffy. With friends who are ranked 7 or 8, playing just racks not points I'll still beat them one out of every 3-4 racks consistently.

And it has 0 to do with how many points they need, as when i'm playing 4s/5s it will be a slaughter pointwise usually, like this monday I played a 4 and hit my 19 with them hitting 18. Granted also part of why I'm a 2 is that with both direct defensive shots, and defensive offensive shots games with me are high inning count. That game Monday for 37 points scored was 32 innings...

Anyhow, what I've noticed and also had one of my teammates (an 8 at 75 years old, used to be a pro when he was younger) was that I definitely shoot differently against lower ranked players. I don't use the same pre-shot routine, I make my shots much faster, I tend to have a higher stance as well rather than getting all the way down. Its unconscious, but it still happens. I've been working on that hard, making sure even in solo practice games I use exactly the same pre-shot routine, stance, etc. The other thing that I noticed myself is that when i'm shooting a worse player, i'll spend more effort and energy on cue placement than on sinking the object ball. Against a better player although I still care about cue placement, sinking the object ball is far more important.

So it might be worth your while to find someone else to watch you both while you are playing better and worse players, and let them tell you what they see you are doing differently.

 

[sjm]

Well, you can start to give some weight to the players that have a lower level than yours. It will keep you focused.

This is excellent advice. Every Monday, I practice with a player that plays well below my speed. Even though we're not gambling or playing for the time, I give him the five ball as a spot in nine ball. It puts the pressure on me to play well, and that's the way I like it.

 

[predator]

Hey AZB
My problem is, that whenever I play a set with another player for practice, (we just play for the table time, 9-ball race to 9 or 11) I lose very often even by players who are significantly worse than me.

If you were truly significantly better than your opponents, you would not lose even close to 50% of matches, let alone most of the time. Besides, table time may not be something that you necessarily want to pay for every time, therefore, I sincerely doubt that you lacked motivation.

Simply put, you're not as much above your usual opponents as you may think. Sorry to be so blunt, but somebody had to say it. We pool players are notorious for overestimating our own abilities. It's the only truth.

Still, I'll give you a benefit of a doubt, so let's assume that you are indeed better than your opponents, but perhaps maybe not light years ahead. My advice? Play more safeties man! And I mean many more! Below average players tend to be very weak at escaping with cushions and also use jump cue almost all the time. Use their weakness to your advantage. Don't think that just because you play better that you necessarily have to go for runouts all the time.

 

[Lock N Load]

You need to work on getting the Killer instinct. You may be subconsciously laying off because you feel bad about beating the lessor player. Go into every game looking to blow your opponent away every time whether your in a tounament, practice or gambling.

You do need the killer instinct to play good with a high level player. But I learned to be able to adjust my level of play. That is a plus key to winning pool games or losing them. If I play a c player it looks like we are having a battle and if I play an A player it looks the same.

I played a match for $50.00 race to 9 games 9 ball even with a good player. He beat me 6 games in a row, the bartender said Lock I saw you rack 6 times already what gives? I then put a 9 pack on the guy and he quit. I was playing at his level of play the first 6 games. And then I stepped it up a little bit. If you get your thoughts right and play at a good level your game will improve. Not to mention you need to stay focused.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.

 

[CreeDo]

It sounds like you seldom win when betting something, whether they're better or worse than you.

Maybe the issue is not the quality of your opponent, maybe you simply get nervous when you know something is on the line.

The best cure for that is to put yourself in those situations over and over again until it truly isn't a big deal. Right now, playing for table time shouldn't be a big deal but it's funny how even a dollar can make a match "mean something" and affect your shooting. You gotta just keep making those small bets until playing for ten bucks feels exactly the same as playing for 0 bucks. With enough experience it will start to feel routine and comfortable, rather than a Serious Game.

 

[Pushout]

It takes a good deal of practice to be able to bear down and bring a good game against lesser players. I found it very hard to play people who were friends or people I had taught. Giving weight is a good idea, play for something even if it's just a cup of coffee or two dollars, it gives you a reason not to miss! Jimmy Reid's video set is a great resource!!

Edit: You might want to download my Christmas gift to AZ, I especially like tip #7

 

[Taco]

A lot of people, myself included, have trouble "playing down." You said in your original post you had nothing to gain by beating them. In my case I've come to believe the problem is the opposite - I have everything to lose by losing to them. If you're playing someone better, you bear down and think wouldn't it be great if I beat them. If you're playing a lesser player, you're thinking, oh no, Id better not lose to this banger. Negative frame of mind vs positive.

I also agree with a previous poster that you have to play very smart. Play safe if the runout isn't automatic.

Good luck, and let us know when you've found the magic bullet.

 

[HelloBaby-]

There is nothing that called "play the table not the player", for me it's just a way that some players who can't handle the pressure try to self-hyponosis to be able to feel less pressure.

Face the pressure like a man, not try go around it. If tomorrow you go play Shane, then tell yourself that I will play Shane and I will do my best, don't try to lie yourself that you will play "the table" and not the No1 in US lol, that won't help much.

Back with your problem play the worse players, I think the the reason is you don't have the reason to be 100% in the game ( match for nothing with a worse player ).
There are some reasons for us in general to focus in a match :
- want to win money ( money match )
- want to make good result in tournament ( tournament match )
- try to learn and beat a better player ( match with better player )
.....

And I'm sorry but there is no room for a match for nothing with a worse player, don't try to find what to do to get yourself focused, there is nothing to do. Just stop doing that or matchs like that will make you play worse.

Of course you can always play worse player for some money, or in tournament, at least you know why you are doing that.

You can tell me: "but I know the guy and we are friends", in that case don't take that seriously then .

 

[jackthehat]

Hey AZB

Been playing pool seriously for about 2 years and I have reached a B/B+ level. I can beat the 9-ball ghost in a race to 7 quite often and I enjoy practicing for several hours. And of course I go to tournaments etc.

My problem is, that whenever I play a set with another player for practice, (we just play for the table time, 9-ball race to 9 or 11) I lose very often even by players who are significantly worse than me.

If I play a player who is better, I will do my best to play good and I usually do play good, but still, it is very hard to beat my opponent as he is better and I lose very often. Now if I play a player who is worse, I will usually be unfocused, or playing sloppy. And I will lose again. It is like I am not motivated enough to beat a player who is not as good as me when we are just practicing by playing for the table time.

But what am I supposed to do? I am trying to concentrate and play the table, not think who my opponent is etc. but I don't seem to have found out how just yet. Maybe I am still very inexperienced pool-mentality-wise, I don't know... on the other hand, I don't have this problem in tournament play. I got the motivation to win in order to advance and I usually beat a lesser player. But when I am approached by a lesser player who wants to play with me (I never say no to anyone of course) while I am practicing or just hanging around the pool room, I will play him and almost never win for the reasons I explained above. It's like I feel I have nothing to gain by beating a worse player in practice. I would actually prefer to practice straight pool alone and try to make a good run than play with another player. So in general, Lack of motivation ---> lack of concentration ---> almost certain defeat.

How can I treat that? Or I am just asking too much from myself for the brief time I have been playing pool?

The saying 'you are only as good as the company you keep' has a lot of significance to your question. I personally will not practice with lessor players as a rule. It is not just about playing the table it is about being in the persons presence which can bring you down for all manner of factors. I have always tried to seek out better or equal players. If I cannot find them I will practice alone. It is no challenge consistently beating an inferior opponent and it will subconsciously take the edge off of your game. You will not soar like an eagle if you are surrounded by turkey's.

 

[Neil]

You have to do several things-

1. Play the table, not your opponent. This means that you don't take flyers figuring that you will get back to the table even if you miss it. You play every shot like the whole game depends on that shot being done correctly.

2. You play your opponent. This means that you want to win. If a better player than you, you try your best to win. If a lesser player than you, you try and beat him as bad as you can. Not just win, but prove your superiority.

3. You just observe what happens. This is a big key to getting in the zone. You don't label shots, you just see what you want to do, and then do it, and observe the outcome, and adjust as needed. No emotions.

4. While the first three seem contradictory, the real key is to blend all three into one style of play. Your conscious tells you to beat your opponent into shame, your subconscious just observes and does what it is told to do. It does not get lazy because you think you have an easy win. It performs each shot to the best of it's ability, and observes what happens, and makes needed corrections.

 

[arnaldo]

Two tips that I've passed on to other players and have seen their games improve accordingly:

-- Play races to 7 and always give your less-skilled opponent weight exclusively in the form of spotting him "games on the wire" 2, 3, or 4 games in proportion to his/her skill.
(Spot your opponent enough games that there's always continous and beneficial pressure on you, and a real question about whether you can get there.)

-- Periodically camcord your solo practice and your competitive play (with your opponent's permission, of course). The camcorder is a totally objective observer and you'll spot all manner of things that you never would have learned about otherwise. Be sure to make DVDs of these recorded sessions because they provide the easist way to replay, freeze, fast forward or backward etc. whether on your computer screen or TV screen, enabling you fully study your strengths, weaknesses, and *decisions* at your leisure.

(It's a nice gesture to agree to make copies for your opponent of any recordings you make in competition -- whether formal or casual competitions. You'll quickly realize who are the guys who want to study and improve as much as you do and you'll thereby be on a serious learning curve in the right company.)

Arnaldo

 

[EasyEJL]

The saying 'you are only as good as the company you keep' has a lot of significance to your question. I personally will not practice with lessor players as a rule. It is not just about playing the table it is about being in the persons presence which can bring you down for all manner of factors. I have always tried to seek out better or equal players. If I cannot find them I will practice alone. It is no challenge consistently beating an inferior opponent and it will subconsciously take the edge off of your game. You will not soar like an eagle if you are surrounded by turkey's.

see if everyone felt like you though, there would be none of the better than you players willing to play with you.... Why would they want to?

 

[efirkey]

Play them for just enough money that you can afford but would hate to lose. And give them enough weight to make yourself uncomfortable playing them. Odds are you will break even or close to it and you will put out your best effort.

If you have to give out too much weight then you probably shouldn't be playing them any ways.

 

[jackthehat]

see if everyone felt like you though, there would be none of the better than you players willing to play with you.... Why would they want to?

True point and I have had this a lot from better players who were not interested when I was learning the game. In my case I found it very beneficial to my game as it just made me more dedicated to practice when better players said 'come back and play me when you are good enough'. I would rather have that than play a good player who is not interested in the game and makes me feel that I haven't earnt the privilege of his time.