Playmaster Renaissance Custom Table

rloggie

rloggie

Member
Can any of the historians here tell me anything about this estate find? One owner said to be custom with burl topped rails. New 35k and that's all I know.
Value? Desirability? But mostly playability. 9'. I find nothing exact on the web but several similar carved versions. Thnx!
 

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The value is in the fanciness not the quality of the table as a pool table. It would play like a normal good quality home table you can find for $500 - 1,000.
 
Maybe the best antique style tables ever made. I played on one in St. Louis and it played great! Big and heavy (thick slate) kind of like the Connelly Ultimate table. Felt like playing on an Anniversary. That table would be a bargain at 5K. Compare with the restored antique tables at Blatt Billiards in New York at 20K and up.
 
I think $35k is really high for a modern table even with the fancy carving. Here's one on Craigslist:

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Hey Bob, Yep that's the one. I bought it and am having it delivered next week. The 35K is wha the original buyer paid back in the seventies? Not everyone's taste but certainly unique to me. I was hoping someone would know the slate thickness. I'm sure it's at least 1" but think it may be more as I'm thinking of whether to bring it downstairs from the inside or outside.
 
jay helfert said:
Maybe the best antique style tables ever made. I played on one in St. Louis and it played great! Big and heavy (thick slate) kind of like the Connelly Ultimate table. Felt like playing on an Anniversary. That table would be a bargain at 5K. Compare with the restored antique tables at Blatt Billiards in New York at 20K and up.
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Having just bought this table I'm very happy to hear your thoughts. Sitting on pins and needles waiting for delivery/setup. I've read that the company that made this also made early top of the line Brunswick for Brunswick. Seller did not say this, just a note on the web.
 
rloggie said:
... I've read that the company that made this also made early top of the line Brunswick for Brunswick. Seller did not say this, just a note on the web.
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That would really, really surprise me. Around the 1880 to 1920 timeframe Brunswick often showed their huge factories in their adds. I thought it was not until after the 1940s that Brunswick started to subcontract tables.
 
Bob Jewett said:
That would really, really surprise me. Around the 1880 to 1920 timeframe Brunswick often showed their huge factories in their adds. I thought it was not until after the 1940s that Brunswick started to subcontract tables.
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I found this. My memory was off a little.

It originally started as PlayMaster by Charles Bailey in 1973. After awhile, Charles bought a high-end pool table manufacturing company called Renaissance, Highland and the PlayMaster were then renamed as Play Master-Renaissance. In 1993 AMF Bowling made an offer to buy Play Master-Renaissance. Charles accepted. AMF pool tables are pretty similar to the Brunswick Gold Crown because at one point AMF owned the pool table manufacturing unit of Brunswick. This helped them produce a similar experience giving a cheaper version of the Brunswick GC.
 
rloggie said:
I found this. My memory was off a little.

It originally started as PlayMaster by Charles Bailey in 1973. After awhile, Charles bought a high-end pool table manufacturing company called Renaissance, Highland and the PlayMaster were then renamed as Play Master-Renaissance. In 1993 AMF Bowling made an offer to buy Play Master-Renaissance. Charles accepted. AMF pool tables are pretty similar to the Brunswick Gold Crown because at one point AMF owned the pool table manufacturing unit of Brunswick. This helped them produce a similar experience giving a cheaper version of the Brunswick GC.
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I had no idea. I remember that AMF was around in the 1960s but had no idea they were making Gold Crowns as well. Sometime around 1990 or so, I think US manufacturing of the GC was done by Kimball (the piano company), then everything went overseas.
 
rloggie said:
I found this. My memory was off a little.

It originally started as PlayMaster by Charles Bailey in 1973. After awhile, Charles bought a high-end pool table manufacturing company called Renaissance, Highland and the PlayMaster were then renamed as Play Master-Renaissance. In 1993 AMF Bowling made an offer to buy Play Master-Renaissance. Charles accepted. AMF pool tables are pretty similar to the Brunswick Gold Crown because at one point AMF owned the pool table manufacturing unit of Brunswick. This helped them produce a similar experience giving a cheaper version of the Brunswick GC.
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https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/gold-crown-vs-amf.199576/page-2 read post #26. based on what RKC has said and info here i don't believe AMF ever owned any part of B'wick billiards.
 
garczar said:
https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/gold-crown-vs-amf.199576/page-2 read post #26. based on what RKC has said and info here i don't believe AMF ever owned any part of B'wick billiards.
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The referenced thread says, in part:

For what it's worth, here's the explanation I got from Brunswick regarding the "AMF Brunswick" table I had posted about earlier:​
​
We regret to inform you that at no time in our history was Brunswick​
Billiards affiliated in any way with AMF. ...​

Anyone remember when/if AMF got out of the billiards business? The site AMFBilliards.com appears to be scamsters.
 
Bob Jewett said:
The referenced thread says, in part:

For what it's worth, here's the explanation I got from Brunswick regarding the "AMF Brunswick" table I had posted about earlier:​
​
We regret to inform you that at no time in our history was Brunswick​
Billiards affiliated in any way with AMF. ...​

Anyone remember when/if AMF got out of the billiards business? The site AMFBilliards.com appears to be scamsters.
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I found a couple different links that mentioned that there was a 'rumor' that B'wick sold off the billiard div. when they bought Bayliner in early 70's but there is zero evidence that this ever happened. IMO rumor is all it is.
 
Thanks for the input. Competition breeds strange bedfellows, or something like that. I am of course interested in the history but really have no dog in that contest. My web search was entertaining but focused on whether or not the table in question was worth the effort and money to pursue. Especially since I just obtained a free Vitalie 9' that would require complete refinishing and restoration. With what it would cost to do it right the decision needed input and some learning for me. Thanks again to all who've chimed in. I'll be interested to see what else is said.
 
rloggie said:
Thanks for the input. Competition breeds strange bedfellows, or something like that. I am of course interested in the history but really have no dog in that contest. My web search was entertaining but focused on whether or not the table in question was worth the effort and money to pursue. Especially since I just obtained a free Vitalie 9' that would require complete refinishing and restoration. With what it would cost to do it right the decision needed input and some learning for me. Thanks again to all who've chimed in. I'll be interested to see what else is said.
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This may be a little on the harsh side but imo tables like this are, as they say in Texas, all hat and no cattle. Your paying for a bunch of carvings that have nothing to do with the guts of the table. I have no clue how these are built on the inside but in NO WAY were/are they worth those kinds of prices. I could see one maybe going for a couple grand used. Maybe.
 
I respect your opinion. I'm not an engineer nor do I know the particulars, in detail of the table. Nor do I care about the carvings or original price. But I know a professional that does and will be in contact with him today. I do think its a hard to sell item for many reasons and will either satisfy me on not. I'm Texan and as we say "not my first rodeo". Thnx.
 
I'm still around and the pool room and downstairs remodel is within a week or two of being finished sans pool table. The Renneisance became more trouble than I needed and at the end of the day not what I really wanted. Beer budget and high end taste but an interesting experience. Played on a diamond 9' last night and yeah.
 
rloggie said:
I'm still around and the pool room and downstairs remodel is within a week or two of being finished sans pool table. The Renneisance became more trouble than I needed and at the end of the day not what I really wanted. Beer budget and high end taste but an interesting experience. Played on a diamond 9' last night and yeah.
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Glad to see you back! Shooter08
 
jay helfert said:
Maybe the best antique style tables ever made. I played on one in St. Louis and it played great! Big and heavy (thick slate) kind of like the Connelly Ultimate table. Felt like playing on an Anniversary. That table would be a bargain at 5K. Compare with the restored antique tables at Blatt Billiards in New York at 20K and up.
Click to expand...
I watched I believe a show on the history channel where they went to blast billiards . That place is amazing! I would be over whelmed walking through there. No way anyone has a bigger collection of tables or more knowledge then them
 
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