Please help - Cushions way to fast !

mair23

mair23

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Dear Mechanics,

i am a pool hall owner from Europe, and have 11 year old Brunswick Centurion Tables.
I bought them new from an official Brunswick Dealer over here.
They were perfect for about 7 to 8 years, until the cushions start to went down.
O.k., no problem, lets start and make new cushions.
And since that time (app. 3 years ago) i have troubles all around.

I go crazy playing on my own tables, because the balls coming out faster then they are going in (feels like).
They are way to fast, and in case of that even the angles the balls came out of the cushion are way to short all the time.
You can believe me as a relativly good player that it is terrible.
2 cushion or 3 cushion positions drive me crazy because white is doing things you can not imagine.

I hope some of you could have an idea why that happens, with all the new cushions we put on.
All made by the Brunswick Dealer, and all looks great - Height, Cloth etc.

best regards,
Erich
 
mair23 said:
Dear Mechanics,

i am a pool hall owner from Europe, and have 11 year old Brunswick Centurion Tables.
I bought them new from an official Brunswick Dealer over here.
They were perfect for about 7 to 8 years, until the cushions start to went down.
O.k., no problem, lets start and make new cushions.
And since that time (app. 3 years ago) i have troubles all around.

I go crazy playing on my own tables, because the balls coming out faster then they are going in (feels like).
They are way to fast, and in case of that even the angles the balls came out of the cushion are way to short all the time.
You can believe me as a relativly good player that it is terrible.
2 cushion or 3 cushion positions drive me crazy because white is doing things you can not imagine.

I hope some of you could have an idea why that happens, with all the new cushions we put on.
All made by the Brunswick Dealer, and all looks great - Height, Cloth etc.

best regards,
Erich
Click to expand...

The only thing that can make a table play that way is low cushion height;)
 
realkingcobra said:
The only thing that can make a table play that way is low cushion height;)
Click to expand...

You have to know, i have 14 of these tables and 4 of them still have the original cushions on it.
O.k. they are old and the rubbers are a little bit slower then they were 10 years ago, but the height is the same like on the new ones.
The correct height !
Erich
 
mair23 said:
You have to know, i have 14 of these tables and 4 of them still have the original cushions on it.
O.k. they are old and the rubbers are a little bit slower then they were 10 years ago, but the height is the same like on the new ones.
The correct height !
Erich
Click to expand...

What is the height? and what kind of cloth do you have on the tables?
 
mair23 said:
In inch it should be app. 1.43 !
The cloth is a Simonis 760, i take the same since 11 years, it´s perfect.
Erich
Click to expand...

What kind of cushions were the new replacement cushions, were they Brunswick Superspeed cushions, or something else?
 
mair23 said:
Yep, they were Brunswick Superspeed Cushions. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

OK, then I want you to take one of the tables apart. Once you've got it apart take some of that 760 cloth, tear it into 3/4" strips and double it up, then staple two thicknesses of cloth onto the bottom of all 6 rails between the rail bolt holes and the playing surface the full length of the rails, then re-assemble the table, then tell me how it plays afterwards:D
 
realkingcobra said:
OK, then I want you to take one of the tables apart. Once you've got it apart take some of that 760 cloth, tear it into 3/4" strips and double it up, then staple two thicknesses of cloth onto the bottom of all 6 rails between the rail bolt holes and the playing surface the full length of the rails, then re-assemble the table, then tell me how it plays afterwards:D
Click to expand...

So you still think i should bring it up a little bit, correct :confused:
Two strips of cloth under all cusions - i will try it.
Thanks in advance,
Erich
 
mair23 said:
So you still think i should bring it up a little bit, correct :confused:
Two strips of cloth under all cusions - i will try it.
Thanks in advance,
Erich
Click to expand...

That's why I said to only try this on one table first, just to see how it changes the way the table plays, because it will slow down the rails a little by doing this. And if it slows down the rails to where the table plays right, then you need to take a look at either the cushions not being right, as in not mounted right and being to low at the nose of the cushions. Without actually being there to look at the tables, this is all I can tell you to do at this point in time:D

Glen
 
Did raising the hieght of the rails solve this problem?

I am curious because one of the local pool halls here have Gold Crowns that I feel play way too fast off the cushions and bank shorter that a Diamond table. So short in fact, that I have to aim at the first diamond with two tips of running english to make a three rail shot with the cue ball starting on the 5 line (using the diamond system).

After reading this post, I visited Mr. Cues II in Atlanta. The tables banked and played great. The three rail short tracked perfectly from the 5 line. So I took a buisiness card and marked the hieght of the cushion nose on the card for comparison to the questionable tables. The questionable tables nose height was shorter. I also compared the nose height to a Diamond table with the Diamond table's height matching the height of the tables at Mr Cues II.

What would cause the shorter nose height? Do mechanics have to shim the heights regularly? All the GC's in that room play the same and have the lower height cushions.

I am very curious about this.
 
i've never heard of someone complaining that their cushions were too fast...... the only way the rails can be too low is if they were improperly installed. that's difficult to do and would be visually noticeable because the top of the cushion wouldn't be flush with the rail. before you start screwing around "jacking up" your rails you should measure them first to compare with the other tables. furthermore: all rails have a couple layers of cloth underneath already because of the "scrunching" of the cloth at the ends. i did my best to minimize this because i wanted fast rails.
 
sausage said:
i've never heard of someone complaining that their cushions were too fast...... the only way the rails can be too low is if they were improperly installed. that's difficult to do and would be visually noticeable because the top of the cushion wouldn't be flush with the rail. before you start screwing around "jacking up" your rails you should measure them first to compare with the other tables. furthermore: all rails have a couple layers of cloth underneath already because of the "scrunching" of the cloth at the ends. i did my best to minimize this because i wanted fast rails.
Click to expand...

I will try and be nice! As per Glen's suggestion,the cloth raises the entire rail not just the cushion. This is not a bar box! NO rails should have "scrunching" in the corners. A couple layers in the corners?? LOL
That is too funny.
 
sausage said:
i've never heard of someone complaining that their cushions were too fast...... the only way the rails can be too low is if they were improperly installed. that's difficult to do and would be visually noticeable because the top of the cushion wouldn't be flush with the rail. before you start screwing around "jacking up" your rails you should measure them first to compare with the other tables. furthermore: all rails have a couple layers of cloth underneath already because of the "scrunching" of the cloth at the ends. i did my best to minimize this because i wanted fast rails.
Click to expand...

As Scruffy mentioned, bar table rails such as on Valley style tables are apples and oranges compared to feather striped, bolt down rails;)

Glen
 
i've owned three tables, a 9' gold crown, a cheapie one piecer i got for free and sold for $450, and most recently a brunswick, ventrua II pro. when i redid the rails on my gold crown, AND my Ventura, i noticed that the work done by the professional, allowed the cloth to bunch up at the pockets slightly. there is a recessed area into which the cloth "fits" so that the rails are flush with the table but it isn't recessed quite enough. there is almost always some material that isn't flush in that recess AND few people take the extra time to cut the excess off exactly in the recess. as a result, it's quite a chore to get the rails totally flush with the table. few "mechanics" spend that extra time to do so. i didn't..... neither did this pro:
100_0063.jpg
 
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sausage said:
what say you, "kind" gentlemen?
Click to expand...

Are you refering to the guy who did that rail as a professional? This is the same guy who:
- uses a mini sledge hammer to set a featherstrip
- cuts a cushion off the rail then glues it to the rail
- sprays water on champ 3030 cloth which has a crazy stretch already
- leaves what appears to be a ripple in the corner of the rail cloth

Just asking....
 
Calling RKC

Do you know if the rail hieght has to be shimmed on a Gold Crown? I am not a table mechanic and have no aspirations to be one. But, I am curious to know what has gone wrong with these tables. ALL of them in that room play the same way and have the low rail height. I have never played on Gold Crowns that play this way except for this room.
 
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