Please help with this shot

[Koop]

Anyone,

There was a recent thread on how to make this shot and I thought I had remembered but after last night I know I need a refresher. Between my buddy and I, we attempted this shot at least 20 times and could not pocket the ball and get position. It was either one or the other.

It is fairly easy to describe so I am not using a WEI table but I will if necessary. The shot is: cueball and eightball frozen to bottom rail with the 9 ball frozen to the middle of the top rail. Is this shot as hard as it seems or were we just doing it wrong? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Dave

 

[CaptainJR]

I believe the post your talking about had them both just slightly off the rail. Maybe 1/4 to 3/8" off the rail. In that case you can throw the ball with english to the top rail. If they are both on the rail, you are pretty much screwed. Maybe if the table had big enough pockets you could cut the ball toward the tit cheating the pocket a little, but very chancy. Figure out a safety.

 

[piglit]

Hi koop,

As soon as I saw the post I taught, "here we go again"; thanks to the Captain for putting a quick end to it...many ways to get there and each poster staunchly defending their method, great reading.Joe

Well, I won't bother "staunchly defending" this method, but it is a very effective way to get that cb off the rail. It works best when you only need to get up off the rail a bit though...if you need to get all the way up to the top rail, you are in deep doo doo! Oh- it also works best when there is music playing...

You can just shoot the ball straight in and draw it straight back, being sure you follow through. When the cb comes bach, you can touch it *gently* with the cue, and if you have lots of spin (side + draw), you only need to alter the angle a tiny bit to get a dramatic result.

-piga

Oh- a warning: use may result in ball in hand.

 

[Koop]

Hi koop,

As soon as I saw the post I taught, "here we go again"; thanks to the Captain for putting a quick end to it.

The post you are looking for is "How do I get from the Eight to the Nine here", the last post was on October 21. You can find it by going back through the pages or just do a "advanced search" for my user name. It is an intense article with many ways to get there and each poster staunchly defending their method, great reading.

Joe

Thanks Joe.

I wasn't trying to stir anything up. Just curious to know if this is really possible because sometimes I have a tendency not to read things thoroughly enough. I will go back and look it up.

Thanks,
Koop

 

[Danny 314]

It is possible to get possision on the 9 with both the 8 and the cue frozen to the rail. If you put left english with draw and aim slightly into the rail, the cue will come off at a 30-40 degree angle into the long rail. The english will spin the cue off the rail towads the corner on the opposite end of the table where the 9 is. I saw this done by one of the best hustlers I know. I have done it only a few times practicing. Like every other shot on the table, if you don't have a stroke, don't think about making this shot.

 

[mjantti]

Danny is right. Here's the shot if I understood it right (both cueball and 8-ball frozen to the cushion):

START(
%Hr9H7%IC9O5%Pr9O3%Us2J2%Vr9O1%YL9D8%Zl1Z9%eB9b4%_l6Z3%`p4L9
%ar9I5
)END

Aim slightly into the cushion (maybe around quarter ball cut at 8-ball). And shoot hard ! If you shoot slow, the cueball will bounce off the cushion before the 8-ball. Don't shoot if the 8-ball is more than 1 or 1½ diamonds away from the pocket or the cueball is more than a diamond away from the 8-ball. Try it first with 8-ball a few inches away from the pocket and the cueball quite close to 8-ball but not too close to allow a good follow through. If you succeed, move the 8-ball further away from the pocket...

Requires a good stroke and is easier with a new cloth.

 

[Koop]

Danny is right. Here's the shot if I understood it right (both cueball and 8-ball frozen to the cushion):

START(
%Hr9H7%IC9O5%Pr9O3%Us2J2%Vr9O1%YL9D8%Zl1Z9%eB9b4%_l6Z3%`p4L9
%ar9I5
)END

Aim slightly into the cushion (maybe around quarter ball cut at 8-ball). And shoot hard ! If you shoot slow, the cueball will bounce off the cushion before the 8-ball. Don't shoot if the 8-ball is more than 1 or 1½ diamonds away from the pocket or the cueball is more than a diamond away from the 8-ball. Try it first with 8-ball a few inches away from the pocket and the cueball quite close to 8-ball but not too close to allow a good follow through. If you succeed, move the 8-ball further away from the pocket...

Requires a good stroke and is easier with a new cloth.

Thank you both. This is the shot I was referring to. Next time I'm out I'll have to give it a try.

Kind regards,
Dave

 

[hustler]

Hey Koop,
I thought that might be you.
Next time your around I can show you that you can make 8 ball and get position easily on the goldcrowns but good luck with this same shot on the diamonds. (Freeze both balls tight to the rail too- it wont matter)
Ugly for me this weekend, huh? Only thing I could do right was rack. I will get him back though. ..just have to play a little more than twice a week.
Andy

 

[Koop]

Hey Koop,
I thought that might be you.
Next time your around I can show you that you can make 8 ball and get position easily on the goldcrowns but good luck with this same shot on the diamonds. (Freeze both balls tight to the rail too- it wont matter)
Ugly for me this weekend, huh? Only thing I could do right was rack. I will get him back though. ..just have to play a little more than twice a week.
Andy

Andy,

What's up my friend. Looking forward to it. I saw Matt racking a few too but unless your really in stroke he's a tough one to beat. When your shooting I might be inclined to put my money on you though Talk to you soon.

Koop

 

[Williebetmore]

When the cb comes bach, you can touch it *gently* with the cue,
Oh- a warning: use may result in ball in hand.

Pigi,
I think you are wrong. At our pool hall this would result in ball ON hand, or perhaps stick on head, fist on jaw, cap in ass. Ball in hand would be the least likely result if done intentionally (unless the poor sucker opponent doesn't see you, in which case - nice screen job).

 

[piglit]

I'm tellin' ya- you can do it so lightly that the touch is almost undetectable, as long as you don't try to get above the side pocket, or so.

Trust me, I learned it the same way Efren learned all his magic stuff- watching people who can't play do stuff by accident (btw, his words, not mine)!

-piga

 

[mark tadd]

Anyone,

There was a recent thread on how to make this shot and I thought I had remembered but after last night I know I need a refresher. Between my buddy and I, we attempted this shot at least 20 times and could not pocket the ball and get position. It was either one or the other.

It is fairly easy to describe so I am not using a WEI table but I will if necessary. The shot is: cueball and eightball frozen to bottom rail with the 9 ball frozen to the middle of the top rail. Is this shot as hard as it seems or were we just doing it wrong? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Dave

THIS SHOT CAN BE MADE BUT IT DEPENDS ON HOW CLOSE THE CUE IS TO THE OBJECT BALL . IF YOUR TALKING 6 INCHES OR LESS YES. BUT MORE THAN THAT AND FROZEN MABEY NOT,THERE IS A POINT IT CANNOT BE MADE AND GET SHAPE UP TABLE

 

[Koop]

THIS SHOT CAN BE MADE BUT IT DEPENDS ON HOW CLOSE THE CUE IS TO THE OBJECT BALL . IF YOUR TALKING 6 INCHES OR LESS YES. BUT MORE THAN THAT AND FROZEN MABEY NOT,THERE IS A POINT IT CANNOT BE MADE AND GET SHAPE UP TABLE

Thank you for responding Mark. Next time I can get to a table I'm to try it out and I will certainly take your word on distance.

Kind regards,
Dave

 

[Koop]

Keith's input welcome

THIS SHOT CAN BE MADE BUT IT DEPENDS ON HOW CLOSE THE CUE IS TO THE OBJECT BALL . IF YOUR TALKING 6 INCHES OR LESS YES. BUT MORE THAN THAT AND FROZEN MABEY NOT,THERE IS A POINT IT CANNOT BE MADE AND GET SHAPE UP TABLE

Mark,

I brought this shot to the attention of the local house pro of our pool room and he agreed with you that if the ball is within a certain distance from the pocket it is possible to make the shot and get position. If the ball is more than say, 6 inches from pocket, he claims that maybe Mike Massey could come up with something but any pro he knows in a hill-hill game would lay up and either risk the bank or more likely play safe on the 9.
When I first showed him the shot his response was, "Your not going to make a living shooting that shot." Another note he added was to forget about this shot entirely if your playing one of the Diamond tables. I trust his judgment as he is probably one of the top 5 players in our area. For anyone out there who knows Mark Ransom, he is a class guy who runs a class establishment, Renaissance Billiards in Quincy MA.

Keith. If you happen to read this thread I would love to get your input as well as I know you are familiar with Mark and the speed at which he plays.

Dave

P.S. Sorry to keep it going but this is a shot I am still not convinced can be made consistently enough to play it in a tough situation.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Here is the original thread. There were many possibilities covered in that thread. Many of them according to their posters had a high degree of success. It might be best to continue this discussion in the original thread because it has all of the table diagrams and alternative positional methods.

 

[Rickw]

Exactly!! That's what I said in the first thread. I experimented with all the shots people suggested and this one was by far the easiest and most consistent of them all.

It is possible to get possision on the 9 with both the 8 and the cue frozen to the rail. If you put left english with draw and aim slightly into the rail, the cue will come off at a 30-40 degree angle into the long rail. The english will spin the cue off the rail towads the corner on the opposite end of the table where the 9 is. I saw this done by one of the best hustlers I know. I have done it only a few times practicing. Like every other shot on the table, if you don't have a stroke, don't think about making this shot.

 

[Rod]

THIS SHOT CAN BE MADE BUT IT DEPENDS ON HOW CLOSE THE CUE IS TO THE OBJECT BALL . IF YOUR TALKING 6 INCHES OR LESS YES. BUT MORE THAN THAT AND FROZEN MABEY NOT,THERE IS A POINT IT CANNOT BE MADE AND GET SHAPE UP TABLE

I agree and Yes and 6" is a fair distance. You have to keep the rail compressed near contact or it doesn't work. If it's off the rail obviously the chances of making it become a lot less. As the distance increases the c/b gets farther away from the rail.

Rod

Rod

 

[Jimmy M.]

When I first showed him the shot his response was, "Your not going to make a living shooting that shot." Another note he added was to forget about this shot entirely if your playing one of the Diamond tables. I trust his judgment as he is probably one of the top 5 players in our area. For anyone out there who knows Mark Ransom, he is a class guy who runs a class establishment, Renaissance Billiards in Quincy MA.

So I saw this post today, and being that I have a Diamond table in my living room (actually, it's the formal-dining-room-turned-pool-room), I figured I'd try this shot. Well, From a distance of about 6 to 8 inches, I missed it once out of 6 tries, then I decided to create a small .avi movie of me shooting it. Also, just as a side note, the pockets on my table are smaller than they come from Diamond. They are about 4 1/4". Maybe even a touch smaller. When my camera battery is done charging, and I can get the movie file onto my computer, I'll post a link to where you can see the shot if you're interested. In fact, I made a few videos, each from slightly different angles.

 

[Rod]

What a guy, good Idea Jimmy. Is your cloth fairly new? As the cloth gets older on a diamond it likely gets more difficult to make. Try it from a foot. LOL

Rod

 

[Jimmy M.]

What a guy, good Idea Jimmy. Is your cloth fairly new? As the cloth gets older on a diamond it likely gets more difficult to make. Try it from a foot. LOL

Rod

No, actually, the cloth on my table is a little worn and a little slow. I plan to have it replaced before too long.