Please help with this shot

[Jimmy M.]

So I saw this post today, and being that I have a Diamond table in my living room (actually, it's the formal-dining-room-turned-pool-room), I figured I'd try this shot. Well, From a distance of about 6 to 8 inches, I missed it once out of 6 tries, then I decided to create a small .avi movie of me shooting it. Also, just as a side note, the pockets on my table are smaller than they come from Diamond. They are about 4 1/4". Maybe even a touch smaller. When my camera battery is done charging, and I can get the movie file onto my computer, I'll post a link to where you can see the shot if you're interested. In fact, I made a few videos, each from slightly different angles.

So here it is:

http://www.awbt.org/corner_pocket.jpg (will give you an idea of the size of my pockets)
http://www.awbt.org/rail_shot.avi (to view the shot)

The video starts with a close up of the cue ball and the object ball so you can see where they are on the rail (the object ball is on the center diamond, and the cue ball is about 6 inches away) and that they are both frozen. The verdict is in. The shot can be made on a Diamond table.

P.S. This wasn't to discredit what anyone else said. Honestly, after reading that comment about making this shot on a Diamond table, I was curious about it myself as I had never tried shooting this shot on my table.

 

[LastTwo]

I am shocked to say the least that so many people said "you're screwed" or "play safe". I thought this type of shot is common knowledge to most poolplayers. Just like Jimmy demonstrated, all you have to do is drive the cueball into the rail slightly with low outside english and you're out. I've done this shot on 4 and a quarter inch pockets. Basically the further the cueball is from the object ball the harder it is to do. Don't get me wrong, this shot is not a hanger, and it does require a good stroke like Jimmy's to do it properly. This is a great shot to practice, it's actually one of my favorites. One time I juiced it up so much that I hit the bottom rail and the english took it to the side rail and to the middle of the table. That was for the money, so I wanted to punch myself in the head, as the 9 was frozen in the middle of the bottom rail. I didn't even have a bank so I tried the rail-first inside english shot and I sold out.

 

[Williebetmore]

JimmyM,
Thanks for the video - that was FAR AND ABOVE the call of duty. Nice shot.

I do believe though, that the original thread had both the cue ball and the 8 ball a little ways off the rail. It would be very interesting to see some videos of the different shots in that circumstance (there were several options presented, and a fair amount of disagreement over which option was best).

 

[jjinfla]

Corey Deuel was showing a couple of kids this shot a couple of months back and he sure does make it look easy.

I don't have the stroke to get the CB up table.

Jake

 

[Jimmy M.]

I do believe though, that the original thread had both the cue ball and the 8 ball a little ways off the rail. It would be very interesting to see some videos of the different shots in that circumstance (there were several options presented, and a fair amount of disagreement over which option was best).

I didn't see the original thread, but in this shot, both balls are about 1/4" off the rail, dead straight in. On a faster table you wouldn't have to shoot it as hard as I shoot it in this video. Actually, it isn't that tough of a shot at all with a minimal amount of practice. What I do is aim the tip of my cue to hit the contact point on the object ball. So, you're jacked up a little (a little less on a faster table. On my table I really have to pop it up on the rail to get all the way down table. I tried just clipping the edge of the rail and I only get about half way down the table), in this case you're hitting the ball with right English, and the tip of your cue would be pointed through the right side of the cue ball at the contact point on the object ball. That is how I shoot it, anyway, and I hit it pretty consistently. You might experiement and see what works best for you.

http://www.awbt.org/off_the_rail.avi

P.S. Call me a sucker, but I would shoot this particular shot (I might shoot it differently if they were lying in some other "off the rail" variation) just like that if I were gambling. I've only had to shoot it 3 times during a match and, so far, if this were bowling they'd call it a turkey.

 

[Rod]

Nice shot Jimmy on both of them. You're right that table is slow. Now about those pockets, there snug little pups. LOL

BTW I like how the pockets are cut.

Rod

 

[Jimmy M.]

I posted that shot response in the origonal thread....Now everyone knows who I "lernt" it from....When You showed me this shot (years ago) You did the shot you posted on video...I call it follow..(right hand english)...but you also hit the shot where it came straight off the rail (no english) and you hit it where the ball came off with draw..(draw & left english) ...I was never able to duplicate that last one....

That was back in your playing days...(before you actually worked for a living)...can you still hit that shot??? You should post a video of that...

Which one? The one where it comes straight down table instead of going to the side rail? You shoot that shot the same way, but with draw instead of follow. I'll post of video of that one if you're interested, although, with only two balls left on the table like that, it wouldn't be a good choice to shoot it because it is a little tougher than the one that I just posted. At least, I have found it to be a little tougher. Maybe others don't see a difference.

 

[Koop]

So here it is:

http://www.awbt.org/corner_pocket.jpg (will give you an idea of the size of my pockets)
http://www.awbt.org/rail_shot.avi (to view the shot)

The video starts with a close up of the cue ball and the object ball so you can see where they are on the rail (the object ball is on the center diamond, and the cue ball is about 6 inches away) and that they are both frozen. The verdict is in. The shot can be made on a Diamond table.

P.S. This wasn't to discredit what anyone else said. Honestly, after reading that comment about making this shot on a Diamond table, I was curious about it myself as I had never tried shooting this shot on my table.

Jimmy,

Thank you very much for taking the time to put this shot to video. Sometimes it's hard to imagine the shot in your head until someone shows you exactly how it's done. I will be sure to bring this one back to Mark with your results and I know you weren't trying to discredit anyone. Obviously any player at any level can still learn in this game and that's why I love it.

Kind regards,
Koop

 

[sjm]

I didn't see the original thread, but in this shot, both balls are about 1/4" off the rail, dead straight in. On a faster table you wouldn't have to shoot it as hard as I shoot it in this video. Actually, it isn't that tough of a shot at all with a minimal amount of practice. What I do is aim the tip of my cue to hit the contact point on the object ball. So, you're jacked up a little (a little less on a faster table.

I was the author of the original thread on this position, and, including that thread, the position has produced about 1,500 views on the fourm, so it would be fair to say that the position has really captured the imagination of many on the forum. Having said that, I'm not sure anybody examined this shot with greater clarity. Thanks, Jimmy.

 

[Koop]

I was the author of the original thread on this position, and, including that thread, the position has produced about 1,500 views on the fourm, so it would be fair to say that the position has really captured the imagination of many on the forum. Having said that, I'm not sure anybody examined this shot with greater clarity. Thanks, Jimmy.

SJM,

Thank you for this bringing this shot to light. I apologize for highjacking your original thread but this shot caused me more angst than any I have ever had to play. Just goes to show the level of knowledge the members of this board have and I'm just happy to be able to grab some tidbits now and then.

Funny thing, my wife picked me up a book for our anniversary from Robert Byrne called "Byrnes Complete Book of Pool Shots - 350 Moves Every Player Should Know". Page 111 descibes this situation using follow and page 139 using draw. Because of copyright laws I can't post what was written but suffice it to say that Jimmy is dead on.

No more beating a dead horse but thank you to Jimmy M, DeadAim, RickW, sjm etc... for sharing your information.

Kind regards,
Dave

 

[sjm]

SJM,Thank you for this bringing this shot to light. I apologize for highjacking your original thread but this shot caused me more angst than any I have ever had to play. Just goes to show the level of knowledge the members of this board have and I'm just happy to be able to grab some tidbits now and then.

You didn't hijack anything, Dave. On the contrary, you simply brought the basic situation up for further analysis and I'm glad to see that the fourm was suppotive of you. When I first raised the shot for consideration on the forum in October, my motivation was very similar to yours -- to gain more insight into a position I've always labored over. Like you, Dave, I'm in awe of the level of knowledge the members of this forum continually display.