Please look bcapl!!!

[SpiderWebComm]

Good move BCA

All they need to do now is to make jump cues illegal and complete the job. People liken phenolic and jump cues as "new technology" to further the sport, but that's ridiculous. It's the same reason the PGA made huge square grooves illegal years ago, or why you can't use an Alien sandwedge in a real golf tournament, etc. All are technology improvements. However, when technology removes the skill from the game you need to calm yourself down and accept the fact it's bad for the game.

If you need rock-hard phenolic to remove spin and break hard, work on your technique. If you need a 1' long shorty jump cue to clear a ball - maybe you should stop crying and practice jumping with your playing cue. For the love of God - stop the crying.

They're not making phenolic illegal for YOU in particular, they're making it illegal for EVERYONE so it doesn't affect the outcome of anything--- other than those who can't execute without it.

I think it'd be cool where you didn't have gimmick jump/break cues and you only get 1 cue to bring to a match. That'd force someone to pick something other than steel-hard gimmick tips. 1 cue. That'd force a little thought and experience back into choosing equipment.

Flame away...

 

[Tim-n-NM]

All they need to do now is to make jump cues illegal and complete the job. People liken phenolic and jump cues as "new technology" to further the sport, but that's ridiculous. It's the same reason the PGA made huge square grooves illegal years ago, or why you can't use an Alien sandwedge in a real golf tournament, etc. All are technology improvements. However, when technology removes the skill from the game you need to calm yourself down and accept the fact it's bad for the game.

If you need rock-hard phenolic to remove spin and break hard, work on your technique. If you need a 1' long shorty jump cue to clear a ball - maybe you should stop crying and practice jumping with your playing cue. For the love of God - stop the crying.

They're not making phenolic illegal for YOU in particular, they're making it illegal for EVERYONE so it doesn't affect the outcome of anything--- other than those who can't execute without it.

I think it'd be cool where you didn't have gimmick jump/break cues and you only get 1 cue to bring to a match. That'd force someone to pick something other than steel-hard gimmick tips. 1 cue. That'd force a little thought and experience back into choosing equipment.

Flame away...

I also feel this way, stop crying and play.

 

[cardiac kid]

Folks,

It's their sandbox. If you don't like the rules, find another place to dig! The shortsightedness has become rediculous. Bill Stock does nothing capriciously. There has to be a reason not fully known to us that BCAPL has changed the rule. Even if there is nothing more than Bill making the decision, thats it! Enough.

Put some of this energy into getting Bill and the BCAPL to define what and who a "professional" player is. This past week, Jason Kirkwood either won both Master events at the VNEA or finished second in one. Would someone please tell me what full-time job he holds? I see him all around the country playing. If he is not the definition of the new "professional" player, what is? Incidentally, before someone asks how I get to travel so much, I'm sixty four and retired. This is my hobby, not my business.

Lyn

 

[JB Cases]

All they need to do now is to make jump cues illegal and complete the job. People liken phenolic and jump cues as "new technology" to further the sport, but that's ridiculous. It's the same reason the PGA made huge square grooves illegal years ago, or why you can't use an Alien sandwedge in a real golf tournament, etc. All are technology improvements. However, when technology removes the skill from the game you need to calm yourself down and accept the fact it's bad for the game.

If you need rock-hard phenolic to remove spin and break hard, work on your technique. If you need a 1' long shorty jump cue to clear a ball - maybe you should stop crying and practice jumping with your playing cue. For the love of God - stop the crying.

They're not making phenolic illegal for YOU in particular, they're making it illegal for EVERYONE so it doesn't affect the outcome of anything--- other than those who can't execute without it.

I think it'd be cool where you didn't have gimmick jump/break cues and you only get 1 cue to bring to a match. That'd force someone to pick something other than steel-hard gimmick tips. 1 cue. That'd force a little thought and experience back into choosing equipment.

Flame away...

Well actually the best thing that they could do would be to ban jump shots period. And along with it ban the one-foul ball in hand rule or go to Grady's rules where you must make a ball on your turn at the table or give up ball in hand. That stops the nonsense where a person misses a pocket by two diamonds and then hangs the ball in the corner while leaving the incoming player dead hooked with no way to kick at the ball. Miss a shot - ball in hand. Let's get back to pure run out pool.

If the jump cue is banned then two things will happen. One is that people whose regular cues are well suited to jumping will have an advantage over those whose cues aren't well suited to jumping. Two players of otherwise equal skill will not have the same opportunities due to variances in equipment. Modern jump cues are as democratic as tips are with the same technology available to everyone.

The other thing that will happen is that some innovative manufacturers will devise cues that do "do everything" and it will be another debate as to whether these "all in one" cues should be allowed.

Jump cues go hand in hand with the one-foul ball in hand rule. They evolved precisely because of this rule and as long as it's in effect then jump shots and jump cues should be allowed. It's not a gimmick any more than a tip is a gimmick to apply spin. A cue stick with a chalked tip can't draw a ball an inch, only a person using a cue with a chalked tip can do that IF THEY KNOW HOW. The same thing applies to a jump cue as by itself a jump cue does nothing.

Whether the materials used in some current jump cues and break cues do harm to the balls is another issue. If yes then certainly ban those materials. If however the balls themselves are part of the problem then something needs to be worked out between the ball makers, the tip makers and the leagues to insure that all the equipment can interact in a peaceful way.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I know a lot of people here feel strongly that phenolic should be legal. Here's an open question to everyone...

Check out "THE TWISTER" below...

I'm pretty sure this is 100% illegal. No one here is gonna be gambling with someone else and slide on a "Twister" to SUPER-masse around an impeding ball.

So, my question is... what's the difference between super-soft-rubber-masse tips vs super-rock-hard phenolic tips? If you legalize one, should the other be legal as well? Where do you draw the line? For me, I don't see an ounce of difference - but that's just me.

 

[izquik72]

The original poster was just asking BCAPL to state the reasoning for the ban.

Phenolic tips have been out for at least 7 years (how long I have owned one) Possibly longer.
If the damage to the balls was the issue why then would they have not been tested and banned prior to 7+ years of use?

That is what is fishy also nobody is going to jump a ball with Phenolic and cause damage to the ball.
Breaking is where i would see it becoming a problem.

So anybody who breaks over 24 mph should be banned from pool because they cause the balls to collide at such a speed it causes damage to the balls!

 

[alwayzcocacola0]

The original poster was just asking BCAPL to state the reasoning for the ban.

Phenolic tips have been out for at least 7 years (how long I have owned one) Possibly longer.
If the damage to the balls was the issue why then would they have not been tested and banned prior to 7+ years of use?

That is what is fishy also nobody is going to jump a ball with Phenolic and cause damage to the ball.
Breaking is where i would see it becoming a problem.

So anybody who breaks over 24 mph should be banned from pool because they cause the balls to collide at such a speed it causes damage to the balls!

rep to you.

 

[CreeDo]

While I don't necessarily agree with the ruling, I don't think there's conspiracy, and I do agree that people need to stop crying. Ever see whining and complaining change the ref's call at a basketball game? Will complaining about the unfairness of the cop's speed trap get you out of a ticket?

The ban's like a week old - try working under it to see if you can adapt before you ruin your hankie. Odds are you can find a legal rock-hard non-phenolic tip that does the job just as well. If you can't, just accept reality. They aren't going to make a change and then immediately undo it, it would make them look wishy washy and incompetent. So even if you somehow 'convince' someone that the rule change sucks, they'll let it stand just to save face.

 

[cardiac kid]

While I don't necessarily agree with the ruling, I don't think there's conspiracy, and I do agree that people need to stop crying. Ever see whining and complaining change the ref's call at a basketball game? Will complaining about the unfairness of the cop's speed trap get you out of a ticket?

The ban's like a week old - try working under it to see if you can adapt before you ruin your hankie. Odds are you can find a legal rock-hard non-phenolic tip that does the job just as well. If you can't, just accept reality. They aren't going to make a change and then immediately undo it, it would make them look wishy washy and incompetent. So even if you somehow 'convince' someone that the rule change sucks, they'll let it stand just to save face.

Don Quixote would be proud. So many windmills to tilt at.

Lyn

 

[mongoose-]

While I don't necessarily agree with the ruling, I don't think there's conspiracy, and I do agree that people need to stop crying. Ever see whining and complaining change the ref's call at a basketball game? Will complaining about the unfairness of the cop's speed trap get you out of a ticket?

The ban's like a week old - try working under it to see if you can adapt before you ruin your hankie. Odds are you can find a legal rock-hard non-phenolic tip that does the job just as well. If you can't, just accept reality. They aren't going to make a change and then immediately undo it, it would make them look wishy washy and incompetent. So even if you somehow 'convince' someone that the rule change sucks, they'll let it stand just to save face.

I agree Creedo... there is no consiracy. I am sure the BCAPL will give it's reasoning in time. I would also like to add if someone can't make a jump shot with a leather tip using a jump cue they aren't very skilled to begin with & should maybe try to get better rather then relying on gimicks to do the work. Don't get me wrong I use phenolic but you can damn sure bet I can jump just as easily with a leather tip on a jump cue. It is in the deliberate stroke to perform the shot... yes the phenolic makes it so just about anyone can jump with less skill. I have an SL4 on my league team that can jump easily with phenolic but is below 50% with leather. More skill & less gimicks = a better player.

 

[JB Cases]

I agree Creedo... there is no consiracy. I am sure the BCAPL will give it's reasoning in time. I would also like to add if someone can't make a jump shot with a leather tip using a jump cue they aren't very skilled to begin with & should maybe try to get better rather then relying on gimicks to do the work. Don't get me wrong I use phenolic but you can damn sure bet I can jump just as easily with a leather tip on a jump cue. It is in the deliberate stroke to perform the shot... yes the phenolic makes it so just about anyone can jump with less skill. I have an SL4 on my league team that can jump easily with phenolic but is below 50% with leather. More skill & less gimicks = a better player.

That's like saying that anyone who can't apply spin to the cue ball without chalk is not a skilled player.

The jump tip is merely something that facilitates the shot not makes it.

I will bet large amounts of money that you are also less than 50% with a normal untreated leather tip on 100% of jump shots that are less than six inches away from the blocking ball.

The reason that some people are more successful than others at jumping with a normal tip are the following:

1. they have a cue that is more suited to jumping than others.
2. they have practiced a lot and are able to compensate for the fact that jumping with a normal tip is very difficult.

So for number one it has always been that some cues are better than others in this respect. A person using a Scruggs can jump better than if they are using a Meucci.

For number two jumping with a full cue or even with a jump cue that has a normal leather tip is difficult primarily because of tip compression. Thus the person doing it MUST practice very hard to get the mechanics right to have any chance at success. Some people are even physically challenged so that they have almost no chance to get their body in the awkward position that this shot requires.

So now instead of forcing players to practice this shot using equipment that is not suited for the shot they have the advantage of being able to treat the jump shot as they do any other shot.

This is what the modern jump cue brings to the game. Equality.

If you are a person who can jump decently using a leather tip - as am I - then you should be a stone cold champion using a jump cue - as am I.

This concept has proven itself true time after time around the world in my travels and demonstrations.

Invariably the people who invested time learning to jump and take it as far as they could with a "normal" cue were better with a jump cue than people who could not jump at all prior to owning a jump cue.

I imagine that back around the time Jack Carr was traveling the country and showing off the benefits of using chalk then the same thing was happening in that the people who had learned to control the cueball to the highest degree possible without chalk became the people who were instantly better with it.

A rising tide lifts ALL boats.

The leather tip and chalk are two "gimmicks" that are available to all players and using these two things the player can make just about any shot on the table - EXCEPT all jump shots. The MODERN jump cue does for jumping exactly what the leather tip plus chalk does for normal play.

It equalizes the field and expands the range of possible shots. Mastering those shots is still up to each player.

 

[mongoose-]

That's like saying that anyone who can't apply spin to the cue ball without chalk is not a skilled player.

The jump tip is merely something that facilitates the shot not makes it.

I will bet large amounts of money that you are also less than 50% with a normal untreated leather tip on 100% of jump shots that are less than six inches away from the blocking ball.

The reason that some people are more successful than others at jumping with a normal tip are the following:

1. they have a cue that is more suited to jumping than others.
2. they have practiced a lot and are able to compensate for the fact that jumping with a normal tip is very difficult.

So for number one it has always been that some cues are better than others in this respect. A person using a Scruggs can jump better than if they are using a Meucci.

For number two jumping with a full cue or even with a jump cue that has a normal leather tip is difficult primarily because of tip compression. Thus the person doing it MUST practice very hard to get the mechanics right to have any chance at success. Some people are even physically challenged so that they have almost no chance to get their body in the awkward position that this shot requires.

So now instead of forcing players to practice this shot using equipment that is not suited for the shot they have the advantage of being able to treat the jump shot as they do any other shot.

This is what the modern jump cue brings to the game. Equality.

If you are a person who can jump decently using a leather tip - as am I - then you should be a stone cold champion using a jump cue - as am I.

This concept has proven itself true time after time around the world in my travels and demonstrations.

Invariably the people who invested time learning to jump and take it as far as they could with a "normal" cue were better with a jump cue than people who could not jump at all prior to owning a jump cue.

I imagine that back around the time Jack Carr was traveling the country and showing off the benefits of using chalk then the same thing was happening in that the people who had learned to control the cueball to the highest degree possible without chalk became the people who were instantly better with it.

A rising tide lifts ALL boats.

The leather tip and chalk are two "gimmicks" that are available to all players and using these two things the player can make just about any shot on the table - EXCEPT all jump shots. The MODERN jump cue does for jumping exactly what the leather tip plus chalk does for normal play.

It equalizes the field and expands the range of possible shots. Mastering those shots is still up to each player.

John you wouldn't want to put that large sum of cash up that I am below 50% with a 5-6 inch distance with a lepro tip using a jump cue because you would lose. I am not a beginner at this game & you do not know what my skill level is. Now that is not intended as any disrespect to your knowledge here but assuming what I can do is a bit off. I personally have nothing against phenolic.. I use it myself & do not agree with then ban on it as I don't THINK or have not SEEN any damage to cue balls. I do however KNOW that phenolic tips give less skilled players a better chance to jump then a standard leather tip. Instead of the panic of phenolic being banned I would think some of these gurus would want to better their skills anyway & try something else rather then DEPEND on a certain material.