Plus "Two" ???

[dr_dave]

Does anybody know why the "Plus System" for aiming two-rail kick shots off a short rail is sometimes called the "Plus Two" system?

FYI, here is a complete demonstration of the system:

NV B.84 - Plus System for aiming two-rail kick shots, from VEPS IV​

Here are the two reasons I suggested on VEPS-IV:

1.) The first diamond is labeled 3, which is 1 “plus” 2.

2.) A typical kick in and out of a corner pocket, where the CB is aimed through the half-diamond point ("diamond" 2), shifts up-table by two diamonds (see the diagram below).

These suggestions sounded reasonable to me, but I couldn't find an answer online or in any of the books I checked (i.e., I really just made them up).

Do you guys agree with my suggested reasons, or does anybody know where the name came from or what it means?

Thanks,
Dave

 

[mdavis228]

I originally learned the "plus 2" from Bob Byrne's "Byrne's Standard Book...". You might check his reference, or give him or Bob Jewett a call.
I think a more defined association is to think of it as the "Plus" 2 rail system. Once the point of origin on the long rail is established, the cue ball is kicked 2 rails and returns toward the point of origin "Plus" a number of diamonds based on the initial point of aim on the end rail. (Taking into account subtle adjustments for differing origin points up & down the long rail changing the angle of incidence into the end rail and thus the degree of cushion induced english that affects the final line of return - let alone speed...)
One of the most utile kicking systems I've learned, and also one of the most sensitive to changes in spin & speed.
I think the 2 points you offer as possible explanations for its name are really more just examples of the system at work. The "Plus Two" name is probably just a result of lazy reference through the years, by those who already mutually knew what they were referring to, that's been picked up, & passed along, haphazardly by the generations to follow - myself among them (even at 55 yrs of age).
My 2 cents.

 

[dr_dave]

I originally learned the "plus 2" from Bob Byrne's "Byrne's Standard Book...". You might check his reference, or give him or Bob Jewett a call.

I did check two of Byrne's books (plus several others) a while back and didn't see any explanation for the name.

The next time I talk to Bob J., I'll ask him. Or maybe he is out there listening and can offer his thoughts. I'm also meeting somebody later in the week with a strong 3-cushion background. Maybe he'll know. I'll be sure to report back anything I learn.

I think a more defined association is to think of it as the "Plus" 2 rail system. Once the point of origin on the long rail is established, the cue ball is kicked 2 rails and returns toward the point of origin "Plus" a number of diamonds based on the initial point of aim on the end rail. (Taking into account subtle adjustments for differing origin points up & down the long rail changing the angle of incidence into the end rail and thus the degree of cushion induced english that affects the final line of return - let alone speed...)
One of the most utile kicking systems I've learned, and also one of the most sensitive to changes in spin & speed.
I think the 2 points you offer as possible explanations for its name are really more just examples of the system at work. The "Plus Two" name is probably just a result of lazy reference through the years, by those who already mutually knew what they were referring to, that's been picked up, & passed along, haphazardly by the generations to follow - myself among them (even at 55 yrs of age).
My 2 cents.

Thank you for your thoughts. Now we have a third possible explanation.

Regards,
Dave

 

[mdavis228]

I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, of course. Be interested to hear what else you find out!

 

[Bob Jewett]

Actually, the system seems to have originally been called only the "Plus Two" system. In his "New Illustrated Encyclopedia of Billiards," Mike Shamos gives two listings under "plus system": Barry in 1928 and Hoppe in 1941.

Edward H. Barry's 23-page self-published booklet shows several systems including what he calls the "Plus Two" system. He only shows the shot to half a diamond from the corner, and he does not number the rest of the end rail -- there is only one target to shoot at, and it gives a result two diamonds further down the side rail.

By 1941, other spots on the first rail had been added to give more possibilities, and Hoppe (or his ghost writer) had changed the name to "Plus System." See page 70 in Billiards As It Should Be Played.

In Byrne's New Standard Book of Pool and Billiards (p. 295), the locations of spots 1 and 2 are moved towards the nose of the cushion to make them more accurate.

 

[evanandpeaches]

Its explained in upscale one pocket if you can get your hands on that book.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Thanks for your input Dr. Dave!

 

[brandoncook26]

I always thought it was "plus 2" because it was a two rail kick system.

 

[hang-the-9]

For me the "plus 2" would be how many diamonds off I am when trying to kick. Or maybe the beads my opponent puts up on his side.

 

[dr_dave]

Bob,

Thanks for the info.

I think another good rationale for the name is: every one-diamond shift on the short rail adds a two-diamond shift ("Plus Two") on the long rail.

Regards,
Dave

Actually, the system seems to have originally been called only the "Plus Two" system. In his "New Illustrated Encyclopedia of Billiards," Mike Shamos gives two listings under "plus system": Barry in 1928 and Hoppe in 1941.

Edward H. Barry's 23-page self-published booklet shows several systems including what he calls the "Plus Two" system. He only shows the shot to half a diamond from the corner, and he does not number the rest of the end rail -- there is only one target to shoot at, and it gives a result two diamonds further down the side rail.

By 1941, other spots on the first rail had been added to give more possibilities, and Hoppe (or his ghost writer) had changed the name to "Plus System." See page 70 in Billiards As It Should Be Played.

In Byrne's New Standard Book of Pool and Billiards (p. 295), the locations of spots 1 and 2 are moved towards the nose of the cushion to make them more accurate.

 

[dr_dave]

I always thought it was "plus 2" because it was a two rail kick system.

Now we have at least four reasonable explanations for the name.

Based on Bob's post, the most historically-valid version might be:

A typical kick in and out of a corner pocket, where the CB is aimed through the half-diamond point ("diamond" 2), shifts up-table by two diamonds (see the diagram below).
​

Regards,
Dave