Pocket Facing Thickness Question

[chefjeff]

Any chance that you could post photos? I'm wondering if there may be a better alternative.

For some reason, I can't get my photos off of my phone to my computer that I like to use for online work.

Imagine the ugliest job possible for gluing on facing, with the cloth now discoloring due to the glue having come through it, with the lines of the facings obvious as a pimple on your nose and the balls spitting out like a luger in a covid patient.


Jeff Livingston

 

[chefjeff]

The factory ones on my olhausen just peeled off. I just cleaned the glue off by rubbing it. Cleaned the rubber with alcohol afterwards to prevent any skin oils from messing up adhesion. I cut the new facing rubbers a bit oversized, trimmed them carefully, leaving maybe 1/8" oversized. I used barge cement to attach the facings. I then flushed them up with a razor blade, then finished them with I think 120 grit sandpaper wrapped around a metal file. The sandpaper wrapped around the metal file works great, I think it was an older post by RKC that mentioned that.

I don't know if you would be able to re-use the cloth. I replaced the rail cloth. A lot of places will sell rail cloth only. My bed cloth was only like 6 months to a year old so I just kept the same cloth on the bed. I think rail cloth was around $60, but I may be a bit off on that. It's doable, but the most annoying part of the whole job is putting rail cloth on. IMO it's tedious but not hard to do, more annoying than anything.

Thanks, boog. Good info. there. Barge cement, eh? Never heard of it.

You know I have a small 8' Olhausen, too. The table is one of the most beautiful tables in the world, until I look at the cloth part.

I seriously considering getting a Diamond or Valley, anyway, but who could I sell my table to in its current condition?

I was hoping my last table redo a couple of years ago would be my last.


Jeff Livingston

 

[chefjeff]

Any chance that you could post photos? I'm wondering if there may be a better alternative.

Thanks.

Hiring a good mechanic would do the trick, but where to find such folks? Once burnt, twice shy.

I'm a pretty good mechanic at most things, but I don't want to do it, as I'll take the time to do it right and I'll be out of a practice table for who knows how long. Besides, my wife is after me for household fixes.


Jeff Livingston

 

[The_JV]

I'm a pretty good mechanic at most things, but I don't want to do it, as I'll take the time to do it right and I'll be out of a practice table for who knows how long. Besides, my wife is after me for household fixes.

I understand this concern all too well. Fortunately for me, my home table was destroying my competitive game so dismantling it was literally the best thing I could do. Regardless of how long it will take to get it put back together...lol

 

[realkingcobra]

I assume that you mean replace the existing facings..
It can be done, provided that you use the same thickness facing (or thinner).
Additionally, you'll want to be sure not to remove the featherstrip, as that will make the job MUCH more difficult, though still not impossible.

If you wish to simply remove a second layer of facings, you could absolutely do that, quite easily.

And reinstall the same rail cloth, already trimmed?

 

[bradsh98]

And reinstall the same rail cloth, already trimmed?

It's possible. Definitely easier on an Olhausen vs a table that has a cloth relief dado. I've re-stretched rail cloth a few times, fixing another installer's poor efforts.
I have only done one facing replacement, while reusing the existing rail cloth... I said that I wouldn't do it again, because it was such a hassle. But, it worked out alright. I left 5 of the 6 featherstrips in place. One was loose, and came out. However, I was able to use a bit of 3M 77 on the featherstrip, and attached the cloth to it, for the reinstallation. Not my preferred method, but the customer was trying to save cash, and I was nowhere near as busy as I am these days.

 

[chefjeff]

Man, there is a big ass market out there in need of services.


Jeff Livingston

 

[boogieman]

Man, there is a big ass market out there in need of services.


Jeff Livingston

Not to crap on the whole state of Iowa, there may be good mechanics here, but most mechanics I've seen are basically glorified cloth stretchers, and some of them don't even do that right. No way would I want the run of the mill local guy actually correcting anything on a table.

 

[chefjeff]

Not to crap on the whole state of Iowa, there may be good mechanics here, but most mechanics I've seen are basically glorified cloth stretchers, and some of them don't even do that right. No way would I want the run of the mill local guy actually correcting anything on a table.

No shit. I tried that route.

That's why I said there is a market out there for someone to capture.


Jeff Livingston

 

[The_JV]

Not to crap on the whole state of Iowa, there may be good mechanics here, but most mechanics I've seen are basically glorified cloth stretchers, and some of them don't even do that right. No way would I want the run of the mill local guy actually correcting anything on a table.

Damn skippy... This is my problem as well. Unforunately I don't have the extra funds/option to ship to a real pro.

 

[vincett]

Does anyone know if the hardness of the facing playing a role ? Do we want softer or harder facing ? Thanks

 

[Lawnboy77]

Does anyone know if the hardness of the facing playing a role ? Do we want softer or harder facing ? Thanks

This thread answers your questions. The mechanics commenting here are among the best we have in this country.

 

[vincett]

Yeah, i got the part of durometer of 60A is required. But why though ? What if you were to double shim 2x of 60A durometer facing to reduce pocket opening ? I hear that it make them play dead ? What does that mean ?

I was also advised to double shim woth the second shim to be softer and more bouncy for playful pockets...what does that mean ?

I have a friend who tried both methods and said that pocket with dou le Shim of 60A will play very tough as the pocket bounce balls like a trampoline. The pocket with softer second shimmer play forgiving aka you can slam stuff in the pocket and at the facing where the double shim would rattle and bounce out, the ball would just bounce into the pocket and not bouncing out.

So why does double shimmering is a not so prefered method ?

This thread answers your questions. The mechanics commenting here are among the best we have in this country.

 

[Poolmanis]

Does anyone know if the hardness of the facing playing a role ? Do we want softer or harder facing ? Thanks

softer plays easier. If you use shim pockets and want them play fair i suggest get one piece that is thicker and softer than 2 thinner ones together. I did shim our 11.5 cm Dynamic 3 table 2 different ways and that which had one thicker facing was way better to play.
Also when banking close to pocket facing, two piece facing makes ball die to rail way more...

 

[vincett]

softer plays easier. If you use shim pockets and want them play fair i suggest get one piece that is thicker and softer than 2 thinner ones together. I did shim our 11.5 cm Dynamic 3 table 2 different ways and that which had one thicker facing was way better to play.
Also when banking close to pocket facing, two piece facing makes ball die to rail way more...

So if I want a tough pocket with shims then I should be getting double Hard shim so it reject balls more. Because that seems to be what the pros arr playing nowadays. Even a rail cut shot can bounce and be rejected

 

[boogieman]

It's been a LOOOONG time since I messed with this, but I think that when you go thicker you want to go with 50A durometer rubber instead of 60A. I had to do 3/8" rubber as I was using it to also correct incorrectly cut facing angles from the Olhausen factory. As you get thicker rubber the pocket tends to play more dead. The softer rubber helps.

The "Olhausen rattle" is a result of two things. First is incorrect pocket geometry... they are just too splayed out. The second is using too thin and soft material for the facings. I've not done it but the knowledge is that you can correct a lot of the rattle by simply changing the facings from the factory to 3/16" 60A neoprene.

I honestly feel like "double shimming" is a poor shortcut instead of ordering the actual thickness of rubber you need on the facings. I suppose it's less inventory management to only stock one thickness, but it's also laziness and gives a worse result than using a single facing with the correct thickness.

Does anyone know if the hardness of the facing playing a role ? Do we want softer or harder facing ? Thanks

This is the thread where I fixed my Olhausen... there's a lot of good discussion by true mechanics in there and they helped me understand a lot of stuff.

 

[fastone371]

So if I want a tough pocket with shims then I should be getting double Hard shim so it reject balls more. Because that seems to be what the pros arr playing nowadays. Even a rail cut shot can bounce and be rejected

I don't think the pro's are playing on shimmed pockets, they are playing on tables with extended sub-rails and deep pocket shelves that have correct miters for the pocket size. A good playing table will take that shot down the rail.

 

[billsey]

The tables I've played on with double facings pretty much reject anything that brushes the rail before the pocket. Very difficult to play on... But great to tighten up your game.

 

[vincett]

There gotta be some facings do they? Or else you are hitting the woods

I don't think the pro's are playing on shimmed pockets, they are playing on tables with extended sub-rails and deep pocket shelves that have correct miters for the pocket size. A good playing table will take that shot down the rail.

 

[fastone371]

There gotta be some facings do they? Or else you are hitting the woods

Well yeah, just the standard single 1/8" facings I believe. The point that I was trying to make is thick facings generally make pockets play poorly, its not the same as a tighter pocket, they will tend to reject even well hit balls.