Pocket Size

Mole Eye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There has been much discussion about the small pockets at the UK Open, and we also had the problem at Derby City where there were a lot of unexpected misses blamed on pocket size. I would like to hear some more opinions, and primarily I would like to express my own. There are certain things that really bother me when watching pool. First, to see a ball poorly hit that drops because the pocket is "loose", for whatever reason. Second, to see a well struck ball hang that should have dropped. One extreme is as bad as the other. What can be done to eliminate BOTH of these problems, if they are seen as such? Thanks to all for their views!
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There has been much discussion about the small pockets at the UK Open, and we also had the problem at Derby City where there were a lot of unexpected misses blamed on pocket size. I would like to hear some more opinions, and primarily I would like to express my own. There are certain things that really bother me when watching pool. First, to see a ball poorly hit that drops because the pocket is "loose", for whatever reason. Second, to see a well struck ball hang that should have dropped. One extreme is as bad as the other. What can be done to eliminate BOTH of these problems, if they are seen as such? Thanks to all for their
Newly installed cloth at pro tournaments will invariably play more forgiving, even on 4 inch pockets. After a week, those pockets will play significantly tougher, and the players must take that in to consideration when planning and playing their shots.

I think the argument here is that for tournaments like Derby City in which amateurs play along with the pros, the pockets should be a little more generous than the tournaments that are strictly for top professional players. The bottom line is that both players in a match have to play on the same table, and both should be able to make the necessary adjustments.
 
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CESSNA10

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
There has been much discussion about the small pockets at the UK Open, and we also had the problem at Derby City where there were a lot of unexpected misses blamed on pocket size. I would like to hear some more opinions, and primarily I would like to express my own. There are certain things that really bother me when watching pool. First, to see a ball poorly hit that drops because the pocket is "loose", for whatever reason. Second, to see a well struck ball hang that should have dropped. One extreme is as bad as the other. What can be done to eliminate BOTH of these problems, if they are seen as such? Thanks to all for their views!
Both players are playing on the same table. Enough said.
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There has been much discussion about the small pockets at the UK Open, and we also had the problem at Derby City where there were a lot of unexpected misses blamed on pocket size. I would like to hear some more opinions, and primarily I would like to express my own. There are certain things that really bother me when watching pool. First, to see a ball poorly hit that drops because the pocket is "loose", for whatever reason. Second, to see a well struck ball hang that should have dropped. One extreme is as bad as the other. What can be done to eliminate BOTH of these problems, if they are seen as such? Thanks to all for their views!
Events featuring top professional players should be played on tables with 4" pockets.
 

Cameron Smith

is kind of hungry...
Silver Member
You can always expect a transitionary period when the tables are toughened up. But the pros adapt soon enough. I remember when diamonds became the norm there were conversations about how difficult those 4.5” pockets were. But before long we were seeing no miss pool again.

Tight pockets are a must for big televised events. Misses are good for the game because it keeps people from tuning out when the first ball of the rack is potted.

And while yes, difficult conditions will make it harder for amateurs to compete, I don’t think it’s a winning strategy to cater players who will only be around for a couple of matches anyway.
 

peppersauce

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There has been much discussion about the small pockets at the UK Open, and we also had the problem at Derby City where there were a lot of unexpected misses blamed on pocket size. I would like to hear some more opinions, and primarily I would like to express my own. There are certain things that really bother me when watching pool. First, to see a ball poorly hit that drops because the pocket is "loose", for whatever reason. Second, to see a well struck ball hang that should have dropped. One extreme is as bad as the other. What can be done to eliminate BOTH of these problems, if they are seen as such? Thanks to all for their views!
I think the pockets at the UK Open were perfect for the best players in the world on new cloth. Even at 4”, I saw plenty of balls that weren’t hit perfectly still wobble in on that slick cloth. Personally, I think it added to the excitement. I’d hate to watch an amateur event played under the same conditions though.
 

klikr

Member
WPA standard is 4.5 to 4.625 inches, why bother changing at all... ridiculous. A weak attempt from matchroom to become "the more difficult" league. They'd rather switch to 10-ball instead.
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
WPA standard is 4.5 to 4.625 inches, why bother changing at all... ridiculous. A weak attempt from matchroom to become "the more difficult" league. They'd rather switch to 10-ball instead.
First, it's not a league. Second, Matchroom is trying to establish standards for professional pool and professionals should play on tight equipment.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There has been much discussion about the small pockets at the UK Open, and we also had the problem at Derby City where there were a lot of unexpected misses blamed on pocket size. I would like to hear some more opinions, and primarily I would like to express my own. There are certain things that really bother me when watching pool. First, to see a ball poorly hit that drops because the pocket is "loose", for whatever reason. Second, to see a well struck ball hang that should have dropped. One extreme is as bad as the other. What can be done to eliminate BOTH of these problems, if they are seen as such? Thanks to all for their views!
Even pro snooker is played on their equivalent of buckets. The best solution is competence exceeding the requirements of the equipment. If you shoot "at the hole", then stay on the Valleys. Tighter pockets require shooting the object ball on specific lines. These lines are easy enough to see if you are accustomed to shooting in that manner. Snooker players would be a crude example of the refinement process.
 

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You can always expect a transitionary period when the tables are toughened up. But the pros adapt soon enough. I remember when diamonds became the norm there were conversations about how difficult those 4.5” pockets were. But before long we were seeing no miss pool again.

Tight pockets are a must for big televised events. Misses are good for the game because it keeps people from tuning out when the first ball of the rack is potted.

And while yes, difficult conditions will make it harder for amateurs to compete, I don’t think it’s a winning strategy to cater players who will only be around for a couple of matches anyway.
Sierra Billiards opened in Fresno 6 weeks ago. All of the table are brand new Diamond tables with 4.5” CP and 5” SP,
except that four of the 9’ tables have 4.25” CP and 4.75” CP. I play there most days and I can assure you the 4 1/4” CP
tables definitely play harder. It tends to happen mostly with the CP rejecting a OB struck too hard but avoiding that can
be hard playing shape for the next OB 8-9’ away. Same shot played slower goes in but now you wind up with a long
bank shot or a maniacal cue shot so you go for the run out and the OB waggles it’s tail in the CP. Same shot played on with 4.5” CP goes in. I’d love to see one SB table converted to 4” CP & 4.5” SP or switch one to a 10’ billiards table.
Finding a billiards table to play is like looking for The Golden Fleece so might as well just toughen up a 9 table, IMO.
 

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King T

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It really doesnt matter when you look at the results. The top pro's are the top pro's and the pocket size might let some of the pro's outside the top 20 or 30 have a better chance but they'd still have do everything right to beat those top guys. Road players come to town and they dont bring a table with them, they play on whatever table you want to play on.

Golf has different course's, tennis has different surfaces and bowling has different oil patterns and Pool has different pocket sizes.
 

klikr

Member
First, it's not a league. Second, Matchroom is trying to establish standards for professional pool and professionals should play on tight equipment.
1. Having a closed circle of contestants playing a number of events... well, you could just call it a league.
2. Do you realize that you're not even trying to explain why you think they should, but you're only repeating the statement?
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
1. Having a closed circle of contestants playing a number of events... well, you could just call it a league.
2. Do you realize that you're not even trying to explain why you think they should, but you're only repeating the statement?
What are those things in your avatar? I have it down to bass tuners or sprinkler heads.
 

skogstokig

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
WPA standard is 4.5 to 4.625 inches, why bother changing at all... ridiculous. A weak attempt from matchroom to become "the more difficult" league. They'd rather switch to 10-ball instead.

wanting to see fedor, filler, kaci, shane and the other top pros play short race 9-ball on 4.5" pockets is ridiculous. it's not like it hasn't been tested. it becomes a lagging contest
 

klikr

Member
wanting to see fedor, filler, kaci, shane and the other top pros play short race 9-ball on 4.5" pockets is ridiculous. it's not like it hasn't been tested. it becomes a lagging contest
you have it in your own reply, the races are too short to be able to compare properly.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This I what I get to practice on. It's a 7'er with 4 ish apertures. Not much shelf and not very tough but it's the thought that counts - and it feels like pool.

Tighter reduction.jpg
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sierra Billiards opened in Fresno 6 weeks ago. All of the table are brand new Diamond tables with 4.5” CP and 5” SP,
except that four of the 9’ tables have 4.25” CP and 4.75” CP. I play there most days and I can assure you the 4 1/4” CP
tables definitely play harder. It tends to happen mostly with the CP rejecting a OB struck too hard but avoiding that can
be hard playing shape for the next OB 8-9’ away. Same shot played slower goes in but now you wind up with a long
bank shot or a maniacal cue shot so you go for the run out and the OB waggles it’s tail in the CP. Same shot played on with 4.5” CP goes in. I’d love to see one SB table converted to 4” CP & 4.5” SP or switch one to a 10’ billiards table.
Finding a billiards table to play is like looking for The Golden Fleece so might as well just toughen up a 9 table, IMO.
Give those 4-1/4” pockets 6 months and see how tough they play. And 4-1/2” side pockets are hardly playable, even for pro level players. You might as well be playing on a table with only 4 corner pockets.
 
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