One piece cues have points as a way to join the maple shaft to the other wood of the butt. In a two piece cue do points serve any purpose other that looks? If you wanted a cue that has a good hit and feel would it be better to have a butt that is made out of a single type of wood with no points or splices or do splices of the points add something to it?
Points or No Points
- Thread starter TheBook
- Start date
It depends entirely on how susceptible you are to the power of suggestion. <G>
A large percentage of "hit" is entirely subjective, and I have found that MANY people have ideas that are based entirely on theory that is completely impossible to prove, and often makes no sense.
A large percentage of "hit" is entirely subjective, and I have found that MANY people have ideas that are based entirely on theory that is completely impossible to prove, and often makes no sense.
Although the hit of a cue may be subjective as Sheldon has pointed out. One thing that is hard to dispute is that a forearm with mitred points is going to be stiffer and less prone to warp compared to a plane forearm. (This is assuming that you are comparing too forearms made of the same base wood.)
One thing most people do not think about when comparing a plain maple cue and one which has another type of wood spliced into it is the issue of balance and weight distribution. A plain maple cue is most likely going to have a weight pin added to bring it up to standard, in which case there will be a concentration of weight in one area of the cue. With a cue that has a heavier wood spliced into it the cue is going to have a better distribution without the need for added pins. IMO there is more to "balancing" a cue than simply having it balance out at a certain point on it's length. If you have ever picked up a cue in which it is hard to decipher how much it weighs or it feels alot lighter than it actually is IMO this is a cue which has been properly balanced. To achieve this you need to work in various woods and one of the ways to do it is mitred pionts. So if you feel balance is a part of the feel than this may be something you might want to consider .
One thing most people do not think about when comparing a plain maple cue and one which has another type of wood spliced into it is the issue of balance and weight distribution. A plain maple cue is most likely going to have a weight pin added to bring it up to standard, in which case there will be a concentration of weight in one area of the cue. With a cue that has a heavier wood spliced into it the cue is going to have a better distribution without the need for added pins. IMO there is more to "balancing" a cue than simply having it balance out at a certain point on it's length. If you have ever picked up a cue in which it is hard to decipher how much it weighs or it feels alot lighter than it actually is IMO this is a cue which has been properly balanced. To achieve this you need to work in various woods and one of the ways to do it is mitred pionts. So if you feel balance is a part of the feel than this may be something you might want to consider .
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Canadiancue
You make a good point that joined wood is a lot more stable that a single piece. That is the reason to cure the wood over a long period of time and to turn it down in stages and let it relax and stabilize. If the cuemaker is willing to take the time is there any real advantage of a splice butt over a well made single piece but with no points? I think most good cuemakers make a cue to the desired weight and balance without a weight bolt whereas the production makers make the cue and then adjust the weight with a bolt without any concern for balance.
From what you are saying is a plain butt that is well balanced is harder to make than a spliced butt and therefore not as easy to make.
You make a good point that joined wood is a lot more stable that a single piece. That is the reason to cure the wood over a long period of time and to turn it down in stages and let it relax and stabilize. If the cuemaker is willing to take the time is there any real advantage of a splice butt over a well made single piece but with no points? I think most good cuemakers make a cue to the desired weight and balance without a weight bolt whereas the production makers make the cue and then adjust the weight with a bolt without any concern for balance.
From what you are saying is a plain butt that is well balanced is harder to make than a spliced butt and therefore not as easy to make.
If you think that different forearm woods contribute to different kinds of "hit," then you have to assume that a short-splice with different point wood would affect the feel of a cue, especially if your shortsplice is this deep: http://skipwestoncues.com/graphics/cues/coco_close.jpg
-Roger (not a cuemaker, but makes sense to me...)
-Roger (not a cuemaker, but makes sense to me...)
A
Arnot Wadsworth
Guest
TheBook said:
Adding points to a cue increases the cost and aesthetics. I don't think it does anything else.
I think so.buddha162 said:
Anytime you change the stiffness, weight and tone of the forearm, you're chaning the hit imo. Same with the handle.
TheBook said:
Most cuemakers use maple as the base wood of a cue in which case if you made the whole cue from just maple your cue would be very light and front heavy.(Assuming you are using a metal pin at the joint and standard sizes)In order to have a cue without weight bolt you must use a combination of woods both light and heavy. When a cuemaker uses a big 3/8" stainless steel joint pin or a metal pin at the Ajoint he is also doing this to add weight to his cue. IMO a cues weight should be made up from the various woods used to make it not the hardware you add to it. The woods you use and how and where you use them should be the determining factors of a cues weight, balance and feel.
Canadian cue said:
I believe this is correct, as most people will admit plywood or laminated wood is generally stronger than regular wood. One thing that is missing from this whole debate so far is cored cues. I think if you core a cue with a plywood dowel, it wouldn't matter whether you had points or not, the cue will be very solid. (assuming proper coring methods)
I agree with this as well. I've always liked the feel of a cue with a heavier forearm wood, and very little in the way of added weight. No heavy joint or joint pins, and no weight bolts.
A cue built with light woods and brought up to weight with hardware can feel "hollow" or "pingy".
Sheldon,,,did I guess right on the ICA forum question ?,,,have you checked my addendum to the question, today ?.........jflan
Sheldon said:
nipponbilliards said:
That may be, but the graph would have to be a theoretical one, unless a band saw is involved in the process.
Two shafts cut from the same board, to exactly the same specs, would probably balance differently. Graphing weight distribution, would not be an exact science. Your thought, is a good one, in theory though. 
Tracy
RSB-Refugee said:That may be, but the graph would have to be a theoretical one, unless a band saw is involved in the process.
Tracy
Thank you for the response. Actually, I have been thinking about this a lot and cutting up the cue is unneccesary.
If you look at the loading of a steel bar, or a reinforced beam in civil engineering, a graph denoting the stress and reactions at various points of the subject in question is very common. Such a graph is obtained by calculation, not by cutting up the beam. When you put an object on a scale to find out its weight, you are actually looking at the reactional force exerted on the object in an equal magnitude but along an opposite direction; therefore, as long as we can pot a graph representing the reactional force at various points along the cue in relation to a loading, we can pot a curve to represent its weight distribution.
I believe graphs representing torque, bending stress, tensile strength, tensile stress...etc of cues are also possible, which hopefully, can help us to understand more about the performance of cues.
What do you think?
Thank you.
Richard
I have been thinking about getting the bandsaw out of the equation. Here's what I came up with. If you balance the cue on a pivot at different intervals and rest the heavier end on a scale, you could calculate the distribution of the weight.nipponbilliards said:
Tracy