Ponderings of the potential ivory ban, legaleese

[Bavafongoul]

Macguy....sorry to poke you in the eye with this post but I went out of my way to point out, more than once or twice,
that my comments reflected "my experience" with flat ivory joints, not yours or anyone else's.

Apparently you do not comprehend my written statements about this......God forbid, we were actually having a conversation
because that would surely go south fast based upon your interpretative abilities.

I pointed out that Bill Stroud believes the flat faced radial pin joint is the best joint and other cue-makers agree....not every
cue-maker feels this way but a lot of great ones do and that only bolsters my sentiments all the more. But I'd feel the same way
if I stood alone.....flat faced genuine ivory joints play better in a light weight cue ....for me.....got it......."ME"..........and some
Azers as well but also some great named cue-makers too.

Macguy ....I warned you about being in the wrong end of the pool.......and I'm not calling the lifeguard or throwing you a life saver
......glub....glub....glub......going down once, twice......quit now son.........you can still reach the side of the pool and save your self.


Matt B.

 

[sfleinen]

Vanity is vanity. Materials Science has marched triumphantly onward and ivory has been easily replaced [even SURPASSED] in all aspects except for the mental - no ivory means an inferior cue.

Sure it cracks, but it's just so pretty that it makes you a better player.

The VAST majority of pros have used steel and brass joints for many years past, and phenolic lately. Phenolic joints are probably the best overall because you can get different materials to suit your preference, but oops, it's not ivory.

I agree with this. Animal bone is animal bone, and varies tremendously between different stocks (even between samples from the same animal, in fact). Metals and man-made substances have tighter tolerances in how they react to the stresses of the "hit." I've had more than my share of cues where the ivory or horn joint collar (or ferrule) eventually cracked from repetitious stress (or even just the environment), where a metal or man-made-substance replacement completely solved the stress issue.

The above post nails it, as far as the mental issue related to ivory. There are now -- dare I use this adjective -- better materials for a cue in relation to the actual playability and durability of the cue as a striking implement. Sure, ivory "looks nice," but strictly as a decorative material. In fact, there are ivory replacements that not only look just as nice, but also can withstand stresses that ivory never can.

It's really a mindset issue these days. That's all.
-Sean

 

[macguy]

Macguy....sorry to poke you in the eye with this post but I went out of my way to point out, more than once or twice,
that my comments reflected "my experience" with flat ivory joints, not yours or anyone else's.

Apparently you do not comprehend my written statements about this......God forbid, we were actually having a conversation
because that would surely go south fast based upon your interpretative abilities.

I pointed out that Bill Stroud believes the flat faced radial pin joint is the best joint and other cue-makers agree....not every
cue-maker feels this way but a lot of great ones do and that only bolsters my sentiments all the more. But I'd feel the same way
if I stood alone.....flat faced genuine ivory joints play better in a light weight cue ....for me.....got it......."ME"..........and some
Azers as well but also some great named cue-makers too.

Macguy ....I warned you about being in the wrong end of the pool.......and I'm not calling the lifeguard or throwing you a life saver
......glub....glub....glub......going down once, twice......quit now son.........you can still reach the side of the pool and save your self.


Matt B.

You never actually answer questions do you. I like the radial pin myself and have made a lot of cues using it. That has nothing to do with the use of ivory though, it is a design element.
As I said, does every ivory joint play better for you? Is there a design element in the ivory joint that you prefer or just the use of the ivory? There is a lot of ways to make a joint and incorporate ivory. How do you like the piloted 5/16x14 joint of ivory joint compared to the flat faced?

 

[cueaddicts]

Come on now folks, let's not create an unnecessary train derailment. The issue at hand really isn't a "mindset" or better "modern alternatives".....the issue is how our government is attempting to outlaw or make it illegal for its citizens to freely sell their own property.

 

[sfleinen]

Come on now folks, let's not create an unnecessary train derailment. The issue at hand really isn't a "mindset" or better "modern alternatives".....the issue is how our government is attempting to outlaw or make it illegal for its citizens to freely sell their own property.

Good point. I extend my personal apologies for my contribution to the derailment.

-Sean

 

[Bavafongoul]

I stopped at the U.S. Fish & Wildlife office in Fresno, CA and tried to get some current up to date information. The person I spoke with knew of the regulation but was not able to explain how
it would apply to cues since multiple agencies are likely to be involved with enforcement. The distinct impression I got was it's too soon to predict where this is heading and it's anybody's guess.
I'm following up by contacting the Dept. of the Interior & US Fish & Wildlife in Washington, DC and also some task force committee members......if I learn anything, I'll report back.

Matt B.

 

[macguy]

I stopped at the U.S. Fish & Wildlife office in Fresno, CA and tried to get some current up to date information. The person I spoke with knew of the regulation but was not able to explain how
it would apply to cues since multiple agencies are likely to be involved with enforcement. The distinct impression I got was it's too soon to predict where this is heading and it's anybody's guess.
I'm following up by contacting the Dept. of the Interior & US Fish & Wildlife in Washington, DC and also some task force committee members......if I learn anything, I'll report back.

Matt B.

I think something can be done but we need to be organized. In one of my first posts I posted this link
http://americanorchestras.org/advoc...-material/ivory-ban-impact-on-orchestras.html

We can at the very least start an online petition. Just on this forum you have thousands of potential signers. It effects a lot of innocent people and that is a key word "Innocent" are being hurt. No one who owns objects with ivory in them did so with any malicious intent. Ok times have changed and it is easy to understand the intent of new laws. We are not bad people.

I am no lawyer buy I was always under the impression that Ex post facto laws are expressly forbidden by the United States Constitution. I would have to look it up for the exact article and Section