Pool America Sports first video from 5 years ago

J

jimM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is the video from the first Pool America Sports match that I produced. It's free. If you like it, great. If you don't like it, it doesn't matter
anymore. It was about 5 years ago when I tried to put together a league of teams from different cities.

The theory was that no one is going to save pool from itself by pumping a lot of money into it, but the players could make their own future
by participating in an inside out system that would pay them something for playing and as it got more popular, it would pay more and more.

The fact is the biggest reason that this died was that I couldn't convince the players to buy a $10 video and get two others to do it also. If they did, they would get 90% of the money back as a salary and if we could get other cities involved, it could have grown into something decent.

At that time Bonus Ball was starting and promising all of these big salaries and the players mindset was again, someone is going to rescue us.

Well. It's 5 years later and I don't think pool players are any better off now than they were then. They don't have a league and the fact is they aren't any better off than they were 50 years ago when my dad was a pro. It was always, "someone is going to put some big money into pool and it's going to be a big sport again". Well, I don't see that happening or ever happen in the US.

Anyway, 5 people bought the video and they weren't even the players. The point when I realized that I should cut my losses and get out was
when I started asking the players why they wouldn't even buy the video when it meant maybe setting up a future for them and future players.
I got responses ranging from "Huh?", "I've already seen myself on video", to "You should be paying me, I'm the player. You have the privilege of
taping me". It totally went over everyone's head that they don't have a chance for anything decent unless it comes from them. So, I quit.

I hope you like the tape. There are some pretty good games in it. The two teams were from New York City, and Queens, NY. Kind of like
the Mets and Yankees.

Thanks,
Jim
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLhID1wUQSA&feature=youtu.be
 
jimM said:
This is the video from the first Pool America Sports match that I produced. It's free. If you like it, great. If you don't like it, it doesn't matter
anymore. It was about 5 years ago when I tried to put together a league of teams from different cities.

The theory was that no one is going to save pool from itself by pumping a lot of money into it, but the players could make their own future
by participating in an inside out system that would pay them something for playing and as it got more popular, it would pay more and more.

The fact is the biggest reason that this died was that I couldn't convince the players to buy a $10 video and get two others to do it also. If they did, they would get 90% of the money back as a salary and if we could get other cities involved, it could have grown into something decent.

At that time Bonus Ball was starting and promising all of these big salaries and the players mindset was again, someone is going to rescue us.

Well. It's 5 years later and I don't think pool players are any better off now than they were then. They don't have a league and the fact is they aren't any better off than they were 50 years ago when my dad was a pro. It was always, "someone is going to put some big money into pool and it's going to be a big sport again". Well, I don't see that happening or ever happen in the US.

Anyway, 5 people bought the video and they weren't even the players. The point when I realized that I should cut my losses and get out was
when I started asking the players why they wouldn't even buy the video when it meant maybe setting up a future for them and future players.
I got responses ranging from "Huh?", "I've already seen myself on video", to "You should be paying me, I'm the player. You have the privilege of
taping me". It totally went over everyone's head that they don't have a chance for anything decent unless it comes from them. So, I quit.

I hope you like the tape. There are some pretty good games in it. The two teams were from New York City, and Queens, NY. Kind of like
the Mets and Yankees.

Thanks,
Jim
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLhID1wUQSA&feature=youtu.be
Click to expand...
Thank you for putting in the effort. This is a dying sport in North America and we need more visionaries willing to take a chance and hopefully something will get the general public interested again.



Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk
 
jimM said:
This is the video from the first Pool America Sports match that I produced. It's free. If you like it, great. If you don't like it, it doesn't matter
anymore. It was about 5 years ago when I tried to put together a league of teams from different cities.

The theory was that no one is going to save pool from itself by pumping a lot of money into it, but the players could make their own future
by participating in an inside out system that would pay them something for playing and as it got more popular, it would pay more and more.

The fact is the biggest reason that this died was that I couldn't convince the players to buy a $10 video and get two others to do it also. If they did, they would get 90% of the money back as a salary and if we could get other cities involved, it could have grown into something decent.

At that time Bonus Ball was starting and promising all of these big salaries and the players mindset was again, someone is going to rescue us.

Well. It's 5 years later and I don't think pool players are any better off now than they were then. They don't have a league and the fact is they aren't any better off than they were 50 years ago when my dad was a pro. It was always, "someone is going to put some big money into pool and it's going to be a big sport again". Well, I don't see that happening or ever happen in the US.

Anyway, 5 people bought the video and they weren't even the players. The point when I realized that I should cut my losses and get out was
when I started asking the players why they wouldn't even buy the video when it meant maybe setting up a future for them and future players.
I got responses ranging from "Huh?", "I've already seen myself on video", to "You should be paying me, I'm the player. You have the privilege of
taping me". It totally went over everyone's head that they don't have a chance for anything decent unless it comes from them. So, I quit.

I hope you like the tape. There are some pretty good games in it. The two teams were from New York City, and Queens, NY. Kind of like
the Mets and Yankees.

Thanks,
Jim
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLhID1wUQSA&feature=youtu.be
Click to expand...

Thank you Jim. Fun viewing. Enjoyed it.
 
Jim,

Thank you for everything you have done in the NYC pool scene. I always enjoyed your interviews, and your Shark Series.
Regrettably, there is always going to be a vocal minority. Unlike them, you put your money where your mouth was and took the risk of losing your own money.

FWIW, I think your camera work provided exposure and experience for a number of NYC players. Many which re-appeared in The Hustlers.
 
Last edited:
Actually pool is alive and well in North America. Only the pro players are suffering. The amateur players number in the millions, and play almost every week.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

caff3in3 said:
This is a dying sport in North America and we need more visionaries willing to take a chance and hopefully something will get the general public interested again.
Click to expand...
 
Not the point

Scott Lee said:
Actually pool is alive and well in North America. Only the pro players are suffering. The amateur players number in the millions, and play almost every week.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

That has never been the problem. The question has always been, can you make a living doing it? Like golf or tennis. Having fun doing something and making a living doing it are two different things. I guess bowling would be a good other example, but bowlers probably have a better possibility than pool players.

Jim
 
Scott Lee said:
Actually pool is alive and well in North America. Only the pro players are suffering. The amateur players number in the millions, and play almost every week.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Hey Scott,

I am curious where the disconnect is. I stopped playing for around 10 years and in that time pool being broadcast on sports stations has almost died off completely, prize money in major tournaments seems to have dropped off considerably and here (as well as areas others have posted about) have had most if not all serious pool halls closed. Some even saying they have to drive a considerable distance to play.

That being said there is still a good following for it here but it is a shadow of what it was 10-15 years ago.

I would be very happy if my interpretation of things is incorrect.

Cheers,

Chris
 
jimM said:
Sorry, I haven't done this for a while.

Thanks,
Jim
Click to expand...

No apology needed. It worked for me and thank you for sharing. I am also sorry that the pool players you worked with were so short sighted and such morons. It serves them right not making any money. I have no sympathy for them.
 
I'm not claiming to know how to "fix" professional pool, but I do believe a few things need to happen if anyone outside of a select handful of pros are going to be able to make a living strictly from playing pool in this country.

1. The sport has to bring in corporate sponsorship. Period, point blank! Name a professional sport in which its participants make a living solely by playing that sport that doesn't have corporate sponsorship. I'm guessing you can't.

2. The layperson needs to be able to turn on a match and instantly be able to root for a player. I believe this is why event's such as the Mosconi Cup and the World Cup of Pool are the perfect catalysts to get new viewers into the sport. Even if someone doesn't know much about the player's themselves, it is very easy to say "I'm rooting for USA over England." or vice versa.

3. Matches need to be shown in regularity and in real time. ESPN occasionally shows matches on TV, but a lot of pool aficionados already know the outcome of the matches before they are aired because none of them are presented live (once again, kudos to the Mosconi Cup and World Cup of Pool). There is nothing wrong with PPV pool events, but no casual or new viewers are going to pay to watch people play pool.

I'm sure that there are plenty of other things that need to happen, but these are just a few things that I've observed.

BTW... OP, thank you for posting the video. I haven't completely finished watching it, but I have enjoyed everything that I've seen so far.
 
What you are saying is true, but don't hold your breath

Solomon said:
I'm not claiming to know how to "fix" professional pool, but I do believe a few things need to happen if anyone outside of a select handful of pros are going to be able to make a living strictly from playing pool in this country.

1. The sport has to bring in corporate sponsorship. Period, point blank! Name a professional sport in which its participants make a living solely by playing that sport that doesn't have corporate sponsorship. I'm guessing you can't.

2. The layperson needs to be able to turn on a match and instantly be able to root for a player. I believe this is why event's such as the Mosconi Cup and the World Cup of Pool are the perfect catalysts to get new viewers into the sport. Even if someone doesn't know much about the player's themselves, it is very easy to say "I'm rooting for USA over England." or vice versa.

3. Matches need to be shown in regularity and in real time. ESPN occasionally shows matches on TV, but a lot of pool aficionados already know the outcome of the matches before they are aired because none of them are presented live (once again, kudos to the Mosconi Cup and World Cup of Pool). There is nothing wrong with PPV pool events, but no casual or new viewers are going to pay to watch people play pool.

I'm sure that there are plenty of other things that need to happen, but these are just a few things that I've observed.

BTW... OP, thank you for posting the video. I haven't completely finished watching it, but I have enjoyed everything that I've seen so far.
Click to expand...

Sir,
I think you are absolutely right if pool is going to be a big thing again. And that is absolutely why it won't. Pool doesn't pay the bills. It was tried a lot of times on cable sports channels and after awhile it would fall into the "they'll show it when they don't have anything else slot". And then it went away.

As far as the idea that people need to have an immediate thing to root for was my contention. America is good, but ties to a city are, in my opinion, much stronger. It is shown over and over in the city rivalries of football and baseball and basketball. Most people are proud of where they live and tend to attach themselves to any team that makes them feel connected to their city. The fact is that in all of these sports, it's not the player, it's the team. As an example, I'm originally from Pittsburgh. I don't even know who is on most of the Pittsburgh teams, but when I see the colors, I instantly want them to win. And teams have these great stars. As soon as he or she is traded, they are instant enemies of the city. If Tom Brady came to play for the Giants, people from Boston would spit in his face.

I noticed that in the match between the two teams from New York in my video, there was an instant line drawn between the two teams as soon as the game began, even though most of these people knew each other very well and most of them were good friends. And they only lived a few miles from each other. Could you imagine a team from Philly or Boston?

And I have to say that the biggest drawback to pool players and pool is the wait for corporate sponsorship, that is going to come in and rescue everyone. I don't think it will happen because, unless some big corporation just wants to have a big tax write off, that will never happen.

This, in my opinion, has to come from the inside. With players who want to do something for themselves and be able to control their futures, without worrying about some wishy washy public who may want to see pool one week and table tennis the next. Forget the general public wanting to watch pool. The 1890's are over. The only time the public will be interested is if the money is in the millions for them to win. That is a far way off, and if it were offered by some big corporation, pool would stop again as soon as that corporation decides to stop it.

Pool players think that only other people can do things. You know, people who can do those things. Not us. That has to be changed as a mind set.

There are enough want to be pool pros in this country, that if they just diverted the price of one tournament to a season of pro leagues, it could easily be self financed by players. And then, no one could take away their future on a whim. But, that may never happen because of the way players think.

Thanks,
Jim
 
Solomon said:
I'm not claiming to know how to "fix" professional pool, but I do believe a few things need to happen if anyone outside of a select handful of pros are going to be able to make a living strictly from playing pool in this country.

1. The sport has to bring in corporate sponsorship. Period, point blank! Name a professional sport in which its participants make a living solely by playing that sport that doesn't have corporate sponsorship. I'm guessing you can't.

2. The layperson needs to be able to turn on a match and instantly be able to root for a player. I believe this is why event's such as the Mosconi Cup and the World Cup of Pool are the perfect catalysts to get new viewers into the sport. Even if someone doesn't know much about the player's themselves, it is very easy to say "I'm rooting for USA over England." or vice versa.

3. Matches need to be shown in regularity and in real time. ESPN occasionally shows matches on TV, but a lot of pool aficionados already know the outcome of the matches before they are aired because none of them are presented live (once again, kudos to the Mosconi Cup and World Cup of Pool). There is nothing wrong with PPV pool events, but no casual or new viewers are going to pay to watch people play pool.

I'm sure that there are plenty of other things that need to happen, but these are just a few things that I've observed.

BTW... OP, thank you for posting the video. I haven't completely finished watching it, but I have enjoyed everything that I've seen so far.
Click to expand...

Good post but you mostly got the cart before the horse IMO. What pool needs is fans who want to watch. You mention sponsors but sponsors care about how many viewers they will reach above all else. If you aren't pulling tons of viewers you won't ever get any decent sponsors. Same with televised pool. Networks choose what programs to air based mostly on one criteria: how many viewers will watch. The more viewers that will watch, the more commercials they can sell to advertisers at higher rates. If you aren't pulling viewers you will be replaced by something that is, and right now the Pocatello Idaho City Quilting Championship would pull more viewers on ESPN than the World Pool Championship.

Since the key to money in pool is viewers, and since very few people currently like to view pool (even among pool players), you are left with having to do things drastically different if you want different results. You either have to repackage the presentation of the game, or change the game itself, or likely both, and likely very substantially on both. And the truth of the matter is that there are just some things that will never have mass appeal no matter what could be done and pool just might be one of those things. If 95+% of the participants of a sport won't even watch that sport it might should be telling us something about its potential for ever being appealing to watch. One thing is certain: the "fix" for pool lies with creating viewers however that is to be accomplished.
 
Hi,

thank you for sharing this. Maybe a bit over-moderated :wink: but great camera angles on the playing and excellent video quality. I do like the proposed rules very much as I strongly dislike the usual (American) winner-takes-it-all approach.

Sad to see that I did not work out - but well, judging by the "pool attitude" no other outcome was possible...

Cheers and have fun in other ventures!
M
 
I have an idea that I think would spark more interest in pool viewership, but I'm not sure if it would directly translate to more money in the pro circuit. I think the NCAA could host team events between colleges/universities similar to the Mosconi Cup team matches and live stream the events on ESPN3. Many schools already have billiards/pool as a Phys Ed elective and some schools already have billiards/pool teams. I think that they'd have to allow the crowd to get into the matches and cheer between shots similar to the Mosconi Cup. If the crowd in attendance is into the matches, the spectators watching from home will more likely be into them as well. I was watching the World Pool Masters and you'd think the event was held in a library with the referee being the librarian the way he kept reminding everyone to quiet down anytime someone would as much as whisper.

That's an idea that I've had for a while, but I wouldn't know who to begin to approach to see if it is viable. Anyone on the board know any college/university coaches?
 
I agree

Solomon said:
I have an idea that I think would spark more interest in pool viewership, but I'm not sure if it would directly translate to more money in the pro circuit. I think the NCAA could host team events between colleges/universities similar to the Mosconi Cup team matches and live stream the events on ESPN3. Many schools already have billiards/pool as a Phys Ed elective and some schools already have billiards/pool teams. I think that they'd have to allow the crowd to get into the matches and cheer between shots similar to the Mosconi Cup. If the crowd in attendance is into the matches, the spectators watching from home will more likely be into them as well. I was watching the World Pool Masters and you'd think the event was held in a library with the referee being the librarian the way he kept reminding everyone to quiet down anytime someone would as much as whisper.

That's an idea that I've had for a while, but I wouldn't know who to begin to approach to see if it is viable. Anyone on the board know any college/university coaches?
Click to expand...

I totally agree about the cheering aspect. When I was doing my teams, that was one of the rules that I had. There was no prohibition of cheering. I actually got some flack from the purists in the room, but since it was mine, I went ahead with it and it turned out great. I feel that heckling is a good idea also like baseball and basketball. It's much more fun if you can enjoy yourself by expressing your emotions.
Jim
 
jimM said:
This is the video from the first Pool America Sports match that I produced. It's free. If you like it, great. If you don't like it, it doesn't matter
anymore. It was about 5 years ago when I tried to put together a league of teams from different cities.

The theory was that no one is going to save pool from itself by pumping a lot of money into it, but the players could make their own future
by participating in an inside out system that would pay them something for playing and as it got more popular, it would pay more and more.

The fact is the biggest reason that this died was that I couldn't convince the players to buy a $10 video and get two others to do it also. If they did, they would get 90% of the money back as a salary and if we could get other cities involved, it could have grown into something decent.

At that time Bonus Ball was starting and promising all of these big salaries and the players mindset was again, someone is going to rescue us.

Well. It's 5 years later and I don't think pool players are any better off now than they were then. They don't have a league and the fact is they aren't any better off than they were 50 years ago when my dad was a pro. It was always, "someone is going to put some big money into pool and it's going to be a big sport again". Well, I don't see that happening or ever happen in the US.

Anyway, 5 people bought the video and they weren't even the players. The point when I realized that I should cut my losses and get out was
when I started asking the players why they wouldn't even buy the video when it meant maybe setting up a future for them and future players.
I got responses ranging from "Huh?", "I've already seen myself on video", to "You should be paying me, I'm the player. You have the privilege of
taping me". It totally went over everyone's head that they don't have a chance for anything decent unless it comes from them. So, I quit.

I hope you like the tape. There are some pretty good games in it. The two teams were from New York City, and Queens, NY. Kind of like
the Mets and Yankees.

Thanks,
Jim
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLhID1wUQSA&feature=youtu.be
Click to expand...

Jim your head and heart were in the right place. But the pool industry and pool player's are too fragmented and short sighted to step up and actually WORK to make this concept work.

Many have had similar ideas over the years. What it would take honestly is deep pockets and a commitment to spend money over a period of about five years to lock up all the components, players, production, etc...

Were it me I would start with existing national organizations and pretty much buy them out and rework them into the type of higher level league that treats pool as a sport. I would model it after the German leagues and add the reality TV style of production to it.

And I will do all this right after I win the powerball.
 
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