Pool is being Reborn

336Robin

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
It seems to me when I think about the threads I've paid attention to lately that: The BCA as far as players are concerned is non-existent and No One really wants the job of doing what they were supposed to do and that is support Pool. It also seems that Pro Pool is in the drink for the most part when you see a mass exodus of Promoters.

I would tend to think that Pool is being reborn regardless of how we feel about it and I start to think how many home tables there are and I think of what made me want to play in the first place as a kid.

It might be a little too much to ask that people open up small and private billiard clubs but I do see and opportunity for Table Manufacturers. I think we are entering into an era of the Bar Box. Its where a lot of us got started. Table Manufacturers want to sell pool tables. I think that Bar Boxes put in small stores where games are a dime or a quarter would ensure that people would see Pool as an alternative for entertainment once again.

I can't imagine a bunch of teenagers that would pass up the opportunity to have some fun if it were made cheap. I think if pool is made cheap to play that the game will reinvent itself from the bottom up and one day, possibly in my life time you will see pool and kids socializing with one another swing back into popularity. I think if we give them a reason, cheap to play, kids will play pool once again. I see pool as being something where kids go to a place to play on 1 bar box at a store and I see pool being fun again and a new interest in the game arising as Recreation.

How do you see the rebirth of pool happening?

Inquiring Minds want to know!!!
 
You know, there are pool rooms that do just fine, and it comes down to location, location, location, I guess. Of course, it's a given that the pool room needs to have good food and well-kept equipment. :wink:

Snooker's in Providence, RI does great. Even when they moved from one location in the town to another, they still have a strong following. They have great food, well-kept equipment, and are located in a region of the country with a couple dozen universities and colleges. This is the crowd that frequents their pool room. It's like a social gathering place for the college crowds, as well as the diehard pool aficionados.

We have no pool rooms in our area anymore. Rent is too high, and the majority of folks would rather go to a bar and listen to loud music and watch the Redskins on TV. :grin-square:

I learned how to play pool on a bar box, so I love the bar tables. They do seem to attract the league and social shooters. Pool is still popular with the recreational players today. In fact, I had the most fun in pool when I was shooting recreationally. :cool:
 
336Robin said:
It seems to me when I think about the threads I've paid attention to lately that: The BCA as far as players are concerned is non-existent and No One really wants the job of doing what they were supposed to do and that is support Pool. It also seems that Pro Pool is in the drink for the most part when you see a mass exodus of Promoters.

I would tend to think that Pool is being reborn regardless of how we feel about it and I start to think how many home tables there are and I think of what made me want to play in the first place as a kid.

It might be a little too much to ask that people open up small and private billiard clubs but I do see and opportunity for Table Manufacturers. I think we are entering into an era of the Bar Box. Its where a lot of us got started. Table Manufacturers want to sell pool tables. I think that Bar Boxes put in small stores where games are a dime or a quarter would ensure that people would see Pool as an alternative for entertainment once again.

I can't imagine a bunch of teenagers that would pass up the opportunity to have some fun if it were made cheap. I think if pool is made cheap to play that the game will reinvent itself from the bottom up and one day, possibly in my life time you will see pool and kids socializing with one another swing back into popularity. I think if we give them a reason, cheap to play, kids will play pool once again. I see pool as being something where kids go to a place to play on 1 bar box at a store and I see pool being fun again and a new interest in the game arising as Recreation.

How do you see the rebirth of pool happening?

Inquiring Minds want to know!!!
Click to expand...
Not many teenagers are interested in pool when it cost $1 a game on a bar table. I think that's too much for a single game on a 7' table?

James
 
Yes it is being reborn, but not in America. The future of pool is Asia, Europe and the Philippines.. JMO.....
 
336Robin said:
It seems to me when I think about the threads I've paid attention to lately that: The BCA as far as players are concerned is non-existent and No One really wants the job of doing what they were supposed to do and that is support Pool. It also seems that Pro Pool is in the drink for the most part when you see a mass exodus of Promoters.

I would tend to think that Pool is being reborn regardless of how we feel about it and I start to think how many home tables there are and I think of what made me want to play in the first place as a kid.

It might be a little too much to ask that people open up small and private billiard clubs but I do see and opportunity for Table Manufacturers. I think we are entering into an era of the Bar Box. Its where a lot of us got started. Table Manufacturers want to sell pool tables. I think that Bar Boxes put in small stores where games are a dime or a quarter would ensure that people would see Pool as an alternative for entertainment once again.

I can't imagine a bunch of teenagers that would pass up the opportunity to have some fun if it were made cheap. I think if pool is made cheap to play that the game will reinvent itself from the bottom up and one day, possibly in my life time you will see pool and kids socializing with one another swing back into popularity. I think if we give them a reason, cheap to play, kids will play pool once again. I see pool as being something where kids go to a place to play on 1 bar box at a store and I see pool being fun again and a new interest in the game arising as Recreation.

How do you see the rebirth of pool happening?

Inquiring Minds want to know!!!
Click to expand...
A pool room has one big problem, Sq feet needed as well as meeting other zoning and code requirements. If you try to open a pool room you will discover what I mean. A 3500 sq foot building that would be fine for a paint store and need maybe 3 parking spaces. If it is a pool room may need 30 parking spaces.

The paint store needs one bathroom and it can be a converted closet. A pool room will usually need two bathrooms and they will need to meet certain requirements depending on local codes. A pool room needs to be well air-conditioned where the paint store can have the doors open with a big fan blowing and the customers could care less.

Bottom line is, you need to make money or there is no point. Don't expect a bunch of guys to open pool rooms and give it away on some grand illusion of benefitting the sport. People just don't do that. The real rebirth of pool as you call it is to pair it up with something else like pizza parlors or some other type of income producing element that pool can coincide with. It is just too hard for pool to be a stand alone business anymore. For that matter it always was. Pool has always been paired with other things like bars or bowling alleys.
 
Quesports said:
Yes it is being reborn, but not in America. The future of pool is Asia, Europe and the Philippines.. JMO.....
Click to expand...

It's not about how many quarters one is required to place into a pool table slots.
When compared to other avocations, pool is plenty economical.
Making pool more affordable is NOT the answer.
Too many of us apparently don't understand the economics of the business cycle.

JAM, you touched on it and so did QUESPORTS.

Listen carefully, my friends, and let BOOGEYMAN explain to you what's going on in the world of pool.
Pool is NOT dead. It has simply shifted to other areas of the world.
Granted, it still thrives in the U.S. but only in specific regions now, e.g. West, Texas, Florida, with the Northeast the current 'hotspot.'
.
So where has pool 'moved?' You guessed it....
Asia, Europe, and (soon) Middle East. Until we understand and admit this, we are going to be coming up with silly solutions to fix our so-called dying industry here at home.
Again, all the pool market has done is shifted. It's called zero-sum.(look that term up)

We are in a time that is witnessing a power shift to areas outside of the U.S. and it is ineluctable that specific industries will follow suit.
Think automotive industry, think manufacturing in general.
Why are more and more foreigners coming to the U.S. to get degrees and then MOVING BACK TO THEIR HOME COUNTRIES?
Because opportunities are becoming less and less common here and more common in those foreign countries.

So, if we want pool to be "reborn" again in the U.S. we must foster what we have and take care of our hotspots in pool.
There's no need to come up with funky new ideas to fix the local problem.
And don't count on any "new wave" of young players any time soon.

'Just aint gonna happen,folks.' Just being realistic.
 
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Infrastructure

Boogeyman,

I agree with parts of what both you and Mac Guy stated in your posts. I think youre off base on some of what you say. You declare its a business cycle and then you say that pool is economically priced enough and you state that pool is following jobs. Well some of that is in opposition to the local economy and that local economy is one with a lot less jobs. So a reduction in rate in one area might be inline to keep profits moving in another area in order to keep the populace in place with less money hence the economy.

Pool in South might very well be becoming the new Darts.

But that really isn't what I was talking about in the first place. I was talking about developing grass roots efforts and marketing pool to the youth in the country, particularly the south hence all of the pool rooms closing here. There are plenty of kids who want entertainment and those kids and others do business where ever they are wanted. They buy drinks and food and a local store.......going back to Mac Guys statement of pairing pool with another business is a good place for people to congregate in rural communities without the table taking up much floor space.

There will always be pockets where pool is doing well and as you suggest we should be glad of that, but how you take care of it....not quite sure how that would be done. We have no organization from the top that can do that. We have left that up to promoters who have sort of starting to bail out of the program, hence my statement that pool is remaking itself however I do agree that we probably don't need a funky new thing to save it. I say we let it save itself in the form of bar tables. When pool become popular again and it will because everything cycles as you suggest at least there will be some grassroots to support it.
 
336Robin said:
Boogeyman,

I agree with parts of what both you and Mac Guy stated in your posts. I think youre off base on some of what you say. You declare its a business cycle and then you say that pool is economically priced enough and you state that pool is following jobs. Well some of that is in opposition to the local economy and that local economy is one with a lot less jobs. So a reduction in rate in one area might be inline to keep profits moving in another area in order to keep the populace in place with less money hence the economy.

Pool in South might very well be becoming the new Darts.

But that really isn't what I was talking about in the first place. I was talking about developing grass roots efforts and marketing pool to the youth in the country, particularly the south hence all of the pool rooms closing here. There are plenty of kids who want entertainment and those kids and others do business where ever they are wanted. They buy drinks and food and a local store.......going back to Mac Guys statement of pairing pool with another business is a good place for people to congregate in rural communities without the table taking up much floor space.

There will always be pockets where pool is doing well and as you suggest we should be glad of that, but how you take care of it....not quite sure how that would be done. We have no organization from the top that can do that. We have left that up to promoters who have sort of starting to bail out of the program, hence my statement that pool is remaking itself however I do agree that we probably don't need a funky new thing to save it. I say we let it save itself in the form of bar tables. When pool become popular again and it will because everything cycles as you suggest at least there will be some grassroots to support it.
Click to expand...

Robin. Hey, no problem. I wasn't really replying directly to your OP.
As you can see, I quoted someone else.
You know how these posts go. Subtopics invariably shoot off.

So yes, I agree with you in terms of "marrying" pool up with other businesses.
Heck, that's one of the only ways to survive in pool-depressed areas like the South (as you mentioned).
I respect your idea about focusing on our youth, but from what I have seen the youth of today (in this country) just aren't interested in participating in a ball and stick game.
Technology is what they are attracted to these days.

Sorry if you didn't follow me on my "economics speech."
Yes, pool follows a business cycle and because that cycle is at a low right now, it is especially cheap to participate.
Look at all the daytime pool specials around the country ($10 all day pool in a room in CT & $5 all day pool in a room in AZ).

And, yes, pool industry jobs have MOVED out of the U.S. to other countries.
You realize that promoters are starting to bail in this country, right?
You probably also know that a pool player is considered an independent contractor, right?
Well, he or she is considered a worker, and now there are fewer pool players in the U.S.
That's ONE reason why pool rooms are closing (supply and demand).
So, where are some of those new independent contractors now?
In places like Asia, the PI, Europe, & Middle East. Their numbers are growing, my friend.
The pool business cycle goes down in one area and booms in another.

Simple as that. I hope I cleared that up a little.
 
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Cleared Up

boogeyman said:
Robin. Hey, no problem. I wasn't really replying directly to your OP.
As you can see, I quoted someone else.
You know how these posts go. Subtopics invariably shoot off.

So yes, I agree with you in terms of "marrying" pool up with other businesses.
Heck, that's one of the only ways to survive in pool-depressed areas like the South (as you mentioned).
I respect your idea about focusing on our youth, but from what I have seen the youth of today (in this country) just aren't interested in participating in a ball and stick game.
Technology is what they are attracted to these days.

Sorry if you didn't follow me on my "economics speech."
Yes, pool follows a business cycle and because that cycle is at a low right now, it is especially cheap to participate.
Look at all the daytime pool specials around the country ($10 all day pool in a room in CT & $5 all day pool in a room in AZ).

And, yes, pool industry jobs have MOVED out of the U.S. to other countries.
You realize that promoters are starting to bail in this country, right?
You probably also know that a pool player is considered an independent contractor, right?
Well, he or she is considered a worker, and now there are fewer pool players in the U.S.
That's ONE reason why pool rooms are closing (supply and demand).
So, where are some of those new independent contractors now?
In places like Asia, the PI, Europe, & Middle East. Their numbers are growing, my friend.
The pool business cycle goes down in one area and booms in another.

Simple as that. I hope I cleared that up a little.
Click to expand...

Boogeyman,
The economy has done some interesting things and low margin businesses have suffered and pool is one of those. Yes you cleared up some things but you did hit on a lot of areas.

I have dallied in wanting to promote pool and have a tradeshow and Ive looked at countless ways to try and do it so as to actually make money and unless you have tons to throw at it hoping to develop it into a situation where you have enough masses to fund the thing its a loser plain and simple. I think Im over that dream but I see that pool is just going to be whatever it is and this is how I see it. Its not completely out of line but I would sure like to have some places to play and they are all struggling. Finding the next funky thing is more about keeping the few places we have open and not developing the sport so much.

You are right, pool waxes and wanes and its waning a lot in the US depending on the demographic/economic situation where you are.

Death and Rebirth are inevitable as we repeat history. I just hope that with the information age there is someone wise enough to recognize that this is also an opportunity to set the stage for a strong foundation for the next Golden Age of Pool if it is to be.
 
336Robin said:
It seems to me when I think about the threads I've paid attention to lately that: The BCA as far as players are concerned is non-existent and No One really wants the job of doing what they were supposed to do and that is support Pool. It also seems that Pro Pool is in the drink for the most part when you see a mass exodus of Promoters.

I would tend to think that Pool is being reborn regardless of how we feel about it and I start to think how many home tables there are and I think of what made me want to play in the first place as a kid.

It might be a little too much to ask that people open up small and private billiard clubs but I do see and opportunity for Table Manufacturers. I think we are entering into an era of the Bar Box. Its where a lot of us got started. Table Manufacturers want to sell pool tables. I think that Bar Boxes put in small stores where games are a dime or a quarter would ensure that people would see Pool as an alternative for entertainment once again.

I can't imagine a bunch of teenagers that would pass up the opportunity to have some fun if it were made cheap. I think if pool is made cheap to play that the game will reinvent itself from the bottom up and one day, possibly in my life time you will see pool and kids socializing with one another swing back into popularity. I think if we give them a reason, cheap to play, kids will play pool once again. I see pool as being something where kids go to a place to play on 1 bar box at a store and I see pool being fun again and a new interest in the game arising as Recreation.

How do you see the rebirth of pool happening?

Inquiring Minds want to know!!!
Click to expand...


Those $1 tables have stopped me from even playing socially. A couple dollars used to be a little action, now the table wins regardless and table time is a big factor. I'd like to see the BBs go back to a qtr where you could kill a couple hours playing socially instead of table time getting your $$$$
Good thought and post
 
The Action in Pool

peteypooldude said:
Those $1 tables have stopped me from even playing socially. A couple dollars used to be a little action, now the table wins regardless and table time is a big factor. I'd like to see the BBs go back to a qtr where you could kill a couple hours playing socially instead of table time getting your $$$$
Good thought and post
Click to expand...

PeteyPoolDude,
I grew up with kids surrounding a bar box putting up quarters for the excitement of taking on the winners and to me this was the action in pool. It was alive and people were there to make it come alive and this is what I would like to see recreated because the sport needs something to make it come alive and I find it interesting that in this rough economic environment that we cycle back to the basics of everything because cheap table time seems to work for promoting interests and I don't think the condition of the cloth or the balls matter much to a bunch of kids that might learn to love the game.
 
336Robin said:
It seems to me when I think about the threads I've paid attention to lately that: The BCA as far as players are concerned is non-existent and No One really wants the job of doing what they were supposed to do and that is support Pool. It also seems that Pro Pool is in the drink for the most part when you see a mass exodus of Promoters.

I would tend to think that Pool is being reborn regardless of how we feel about it and I start to think how many home tables there are and I think of what made me want to play in the first place as a kid.

It might be a little too much to ask that people open up small and private billiard clubs but I do see and opportunity for Table Manufacturers. I think we are entering into an era of the Bar Box. Its where a lot of us got started. Table Manufacturers want to sell pool tables. I think that Bar Boxes put in small stores where games are a dime or a quarter would ensure that people would see Pool as an alternative for entertainment once again.

I can't imagine a bunch of teenagers that would pass up the opportunity to have some fun if it were made cheap. I think if pool is made cheap to play that the game will reinvent itself from the bottom up and one day, possibly in my life time you will see pool and kids socializing with one another swing back into popularity. I think if we give them a reason, cheap to play, kids will play pool once again. I see pool as being something where kids go to a place to play on 1 bar box at a store and I see pool being fun again and a new interest in the game arising as Recreation.

How do you see the rebirth of pool happening?

Inquiring Minds want to know!!!
Click to expand...

The PlayStation and Xbox has ruined pool for kids.
 
Here is my idea, What do you all THINK??

I volunteer with 2 local boys and girls clubs and the kids that I talk to, even though they have very little money, would be willing to spend there money if there were places to go where they could meet with their friends, meet new friends and have activities to do that would be fun,

So, My idea is to have a Multi-Plex, A Restaurant and Billiard Hall for the Adults and Pool Players and at the other end of the Complex you have a Youth Entertaiment Center.

The Youth Entertainment Center has, Wifi, WI, Computer Games of the Most advanced and state of the Art. Lots of Pool Tables, Video Games, Darts, All other forms of Games. Huge Entertainment and Video and Music SYSTEM!! DJ's that come in and Kareokee in another area with the BEVERAGE and Drinks Area (NON ALCOHOHLIC) you have energy drinks, JUMBA Juice and other blended drinks that the kids can ord er and taylor make to their own tastes.

Believe it or not, you can charge, $5.00 to $8.00 a drink and the kids will pay it, Red Bull is $4.00 in the store, anyway.

You market to the High Schools, Grade Schools, you can even offer a shuttle service if they have a party of 20 or more kids.

Kids have money to spend if they have a reason to spend it.

You just have to market the product for your clients, in this case it is Under 21 or under 18 and your whole business plan is to acquire, keep and grow those groups of kids and then when they hit the 21 or 18 year mark, you market and transition them to the other part of the MultiPlex, which sends them to the Billiard and Restaurant Side, that they Rack and CracK, Billiards and Crab and Seafood Restaurant. The Restaurantt closes at 9pm, u can offer delivery or pick up service and then you have a 1 hour clean up period and then the restaurant opens back up as a NIGHT CLUB and you can even have a circular Bar that services both sides of the Pool Hall and the Night Club. You can have a Over 21 Theme, DJ, Music, Videos and State of the art 'Video and Audio' system to get the people after they ate dinner, drinking and dancing the morning away.

Thats my idea and hopefully I will have the first phase up and going in the Largo/Clearwater area in the next 3 years.

What do you think??

Mike 'acedonkeyace' Kennedy

PS. Hope my health maintains and I can focus on getting the youths of today interested in the games of Pool to carry on for their adult lives.

Otherwise, yes, the Video Games and Virtual Games are going to kill the Pool World.
 
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336Robin said:
PeteyPoolDude,
I grew up with kids surrounding a bar box putting up quarters for the excitement of taking on the winners and to me this was the action in pool. It was alive and people were there to make it come alive and this is what I would like to see recreated because the sport needs something to make it come alive and I find it interesting that in this rough economic environment that we cycle back to the basics of everything because cheap table time seems to work for promoting interests and I don't think the condition of the cloth or the balls matter much to a bunch of kids that might learn to love the game.
Click to expand...

The $1 slots seem to arrive with the Diamond tables. Only problem is that they put 1$ slots in the Valleys as well. Killed the cheap action
Your definitely on to something
 
Just Imagine

peteypooldude said:
The $1 slots seem to arrive with the Diamond tables. Only problem is that they put 1$ slots in the Valleys as well. Killed the cheap action
Your definitely on to something
Click to expand...

I think of business in terms of activity.

I see a choice for a bar box. You charge a dollar a game because you think it worth at least that and very few play at a dollar a game to amount to anything. People want a value.

So if you give a value....

So you change to a quarter or even a dime and watch the place come alive with people standing around wanting to play. If its a store they will go buy something to eat, if its a bar they might buy something to drink. One thing I think is that people would congregate around a table and the money that you might lose from charging just a little bit to play you would more than make up in stuff bystanders would buy.

In my mind the business activity of a group of people getting a value would very much outweigh the few that might come in and play a few games and leave without buying anything. No culture or society was built around the table or game itself, their was no chance for you to build a family of friends and customers who love your place.

This was the Rec Center concept that worked so well when I was a kid and there were Rec Centers everywhere because rent was still cheap. A lot of stores have enough room for a bar box.
 
We don't have independent pool halls in our smaller town, but bars thrive. I can say that the $1.00 tables are hard to find here. Most are .50 and at least one bar started to charge a quarter when the league complained about the free table. Lot of pool enthusiasm here! I hate to go to another town and have to put a dollar in a table with crappy equipment and worn out cloth!
 
fasted71465 said:
The PlayStation and Xbox has ruined pool for kids.
Click to expand...

Not sure I agree with that. I grew up in the 80's when video games were HOT. You could fill a room with video games and make a fortune on quarters. We also had our Atari 2600's and were just as addicted as kids today.
 
In my opinion the Nintendo, Playstation and X-Box are the death of pool. Today's kids (and even some adults) aren't interested in leaving the house because the new Call of Duty is out :( ....It sucks to say but I really believe that its true. I tried talking my nephew into doing anything but play his video game (he's 15)...I tried pool, I tried to get him out to go fishing heck I even tried to coax him into going out to the desert to go shoot some pop cans with the AR-15 (I figured if he's so into Call of Duty maybe shooting an assault rifle would interest him...good chance to learn weapon safety while we're at it)...He told me "man...that stuffs lame...check out the graphics on this new game I got"...one track mind, video games, video games, video games...

In Kingman Arizona (where I live) there really isn't anywhere for the youth to play so the only way any younger players (under 21) ever get introduced to pool is if they or a friend have a table at home. Bar pool is it here. I started running a little $5 tournament at a local bar and for the most part we get the same 6-8 players every week and no one new ever seems interested...Obviously pool is still surviving in some places but I wouldn't go as far as to say its thriving. Hopefully one day pool will pick back up, but its hard to imagine it could ever be as prevalent as it was yesteryear...
 
The YMCA in our town has two nice tables and I see lots of kids playing pool. I do agree however that people of all ages are less social and stay at home a lot more.
 
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