Pool isn't dead. It's healthier than ever, actually.

[midnightpulp]

While smashing an idiotic argument from a notable blowhard in another thread, I found some interesting stats about pool television drawing power, specifically in Asia:

- 20 million Filipinos tuned into both the '06 and '07 World Championship Final. Worth mentioning is that the tournament was held in the Philippines those years, with Alcano winning in '06 and Roberto Gomez playing in the '07 Final. The tournament was held in a pool playing country, and guess what? The purse was 100K in both years, the highest ever.

Most telling of all, the SWS found out that over 20 million Filipino viewers watched the world championship in 2006 and again in 2007 – a viewership rating that ranks high up there with the biggest sports events held in the country.

https://poolepicenter.wordpress.com/a-bit-of-history/manila-pool-mania/

- 100 million! viewers tuned into Chinese television to watch Han Yu win the Women's World 9 ball championship.

The diminutive but fiery red head put on a clinic as she completely outclassed Taiwan's Lin Yuan Chun, 9-1, in the final. The match was seen by an estimated audience of nearly 100 million people watching live on China's state television(CCTV.).

http://www.kozoom.com/en/pool-billiard/news/the-women-go-for-glory-this-week-in-guilin-china.html

Colin can also attest to how popular these women stars are in China. Like celebrities.

- It's estimated that about 10% of the Taiwanese population regularly play American pool, about 2.3 million people. Not sure how that translates into television viewership, but they obviously take the game more seriously than Westerners, so I think the market is there.

What is "dead," however, is the competency of pool's various governing bodies who seem shortsighted on Asia to chase American and Western European markets. While Taiwan is an affluent country, it's the smallest of the three and obviously not as attractive to advertisers and promoters as Western markets. And the Philippines and China still have 3rd world level purchasing power, which is obviously not very attractive to advertisers.

So pool's "powers that be" continue to chase American and European markets like Arthur chasing the Holy Grail. A mistake. Americans don't watch indoor games, and Europe's cue game landscape is too congested (snooker, English 8 ball, Kaisa, Russian Pyramid, carom billiards, etc, etc)

American pool is the largest cue sport in the world, and by far, with the most prestige and history, from Michael Phelan to Ralph Greeleaf to Mosconi to Reyes to all the legends in between. And that next generation needs to continue with Asia. Base the pro tour, ONE pro tour which features the best of the best (like the PGA), out of the region, and you'll see a resurrection of the game's status. The player and viewing base is there. It's simply a matter of perception.

And imagine the rivalries! Taiwan vs. China, Japan vs. the Philippines. And the intriguing aspect of our Western stars trying to dominate "their" tour. Shane beating Ko on his home turf. Appleton beating the latest Chinese star, etc, etc.

 

[MitchAlsup]

What is "dead," however, is the competency of pool's various governing bodies who seem shortsighted on Asia to chase American and Western European markets. While Taiwan is an affluent country, it's the smallest of the three and obviously not as attractive to advertisers and promoters as Western markets.

I watch Formula One on both the English speaking channels and n the Spanish speaking channels. The English speaking channels have a commercial on average every 12 minutes, the spanish speaking channels on average ever 34 minutes. During qualifying, the English channels have a commercial in the middle of each session, the spanish speaking have commercials only between sessions.

Which format do you think develops a stronger fan base?

{I just wish I spoke spanish...}

 

[midnightpulp]

I watch Formula One on both the English speaking channels and n the Spanish speaking channels. The English speaking channels have a commercial on average every 12 minutes, the spanish speaking channels on average ever 34 minutes. During qualifying, the English channels have a commercial in the middle of each session, the spanish speaking have commercials only between sessions.

Which format do you think develops a stronger fan base?

{I just wish I spoke spanish...}

Yes, of course, the English speaking format, the most widely spoken language in the World.

But English speaking commentators can be hired.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Great post, and not just because I got a mention ;-)

There has never been a bigger and broader base for US pool. It would seem there is great potential ahead, as asia develops, to create a multi-million dollar world tour format, probably centered in Asia.

If someone had the nouse and means to get that running, the multinationals and finance companies would see it as an attractive sponsorship platform.

The greatest challenge may be dealing with the various subsidiaries of the WCBS, who will want control in their regions and a piece of the pie. They are quite strongly entrenched in Asia, as we saw when Taiwan prevented their members from competing on the IPT.

Colin

 

[Eric.]

Yes, of course, the English speaking format, the most widely spoken language in the World.

But English speaking commentators can be hired.

While i agree with your original post, there are a couple of points you were way off on...

The most widely spoken language is not English. Not even close. Mandarin is the most widely spoken, by far.

Also, i think you are greatly underestimating "purchasing power" in China. Every major corporation is in or wants to be there. Afterall, it is the world's second largest economy.


Eric

 

[Tramp Steamer]

The pool hall, I beg your pardon, the sports bar and grill where I play, and the pool players who go there, have no interest whatsoever in what the Chinese, or the Filipinos, are doing. One exception to that, however, is the Panda Inn, down the street, where they serve a mean Kung Pao, and we sometimes order in.
When us oldies, but goodies, leave in the late afternoon the only ones left are the competitive drinkers on Friday and Saturday nights. If that's not dead it's at least a code blue.

 

[midnightpulp]

While i agree with your original post, there are a couple of points you were way off on...

The most widely spoken language is not English. Not even close. Mandarin is the most widely spoken, by far.

Also, i think you are greatly underestimating "purchasing power" in China. Every major corporation is in or wants to be there. Afterall, it is the world's second largest economy.


Eric

As a first language, you're right. But I meant that most non-native English language speakers can also speak English at a high level, so the amount of people who can speak and understand English is higher than the amount of people who can speak and understand Mandarin (at least I think).

China is the 2nd largest economy through sheer number of people. Their PPP is about 12K and 33% live below the poverty level. I agree with you, however, but I'm just looking at from ignorant promoter/advertiser point-of-view, "China?!! What do they buy? Rice and coolie hats?"

 

[Eric.]

As a first language, you're right. But I meant that most non-native English language speakers can also speak English at a high level, so the amount of people who can speak and understand English is higher than the amount of people who can speak and understand Mandarin (at least I think).

China is the 2nd largest economy through sheer number of people. Their PPP is about 12K and 33% live below the poverty level. I agree with you, however, but I'm just looking at from ignorant promoter/advertiser point-of-view, "China?!! What do they buy? Rice and coolie hats?"

Even if you included the second language English speakers, do you really think they number 750mm+ ?

Chinas economy is not solely due to their large population. One thing is certain, any business person that sells more than rice and coolie hats has been very interested in doing business there.


Eric

 

[Cardigan Kid]

While i agree with your original post, there are a couple of points you were way off on...

The most widely spoken language is not English. Not even close. Mandarin is the most widely spoken, by far.

Also, i think you are greatly underestimating "purchasing power" in China. Every major corporation is in or wants to be there. Afterall, it is the world's second largest economy.


Eric

A wise business man once explained to me that English is the language of money. In order to make it on a global level, one must know how to speak English.

It's not about what's widely spoken, it's about what is spoken at the business meetings. As far as television and marketing - English will be the first choice because you can reach the most markets, and be dubbed over from there.

As far as the Chinese and Asian market's go - Bruce Lee saw the potential and brought Chinese cinema to American shores and the rest was history. The powers that be would need an Asian star in pool to transcend the sport and bring the wave to Europe/America.

Yes, the player/viewing base is there and waiting to be tapped. Like the OP stated, it just has to be realized and tied together. Stop trying to bring in the NFL, NBA type fan, they have no interest obviously. Cater to the millions that are already here across the world, and we shall see the Kwan (Cuba Gooding Jr Jerry Maguire reference :grin-square

 

[pt109]

Even if you included the second language English speakers, do you really think they number 750mm+ ?

Chinas economy is not solely due to their large population. One thing is certain, any business person that sells more than rice and coolie hats has been very interested in doing business there.


Eric

Mandarin speakers are generally localized....English is the International language...
....try landing an aircraft any place in the world.....you better speak English.
Most of Europe uses English as the lingua franca....so with USA and Europe that is
well over 100 million....most Pinoys I know spoke English well because they learned it in
school over there....every time I've been on the phone with Taiwan or Japan, the English
is excellent....India has English as a second language...to overcome the thousands of
dialects....

I expect English to be understood around the globe more than Mandarin...
...whether it's a first language or not.

 

[King T]

You clearly miss the point!

A wise business man once explained to me that English is the language of money. In order to make it on a global level, one must know how to speak English.

It's not about what's widely spoken, it's about what is spoken at the business meetings. As far as television and marketing - English will be the first choice because you can reach the most markets, and be dubbed over from there.

As far as the Chinese and Asian market's go - Bruce Lee saw the potential and brought Chinese cinema to American shores and the rest was history. The powers that be would need an Asian star in pool to transcend the sport and bring the wave to Europe/America.
QUOTE]

First English is nota dominate language in Chinese negotiation, they understand the power of the American purchasing public, but they also understand that that buying power wants china goods and its a little easier to sell those goods in English.

Major language course at the two largest universities in America UT and Ohio State, Mandarin.

As far as Bruce Lee goes, America was a far more modern place than China was then, we were a far richer country then, our country also had a mystic that airline travel, the internet 300 TV channels has somewhat taken away, and Bruce hadn't heard of the internet yet.

 

[King T]

Great Post!

Your right, if there was a way to tap into the international market, broadcasting American tournaments over seas? That could be a game changer

 

[Cardigan Kid]

A wise business man once explained to me that English is the language of money. In order to make it on a global level, one must know how to speak English.

It's not about what's widely spoken, it's about what is spoken at the business meetings. As far as television and marketing - English will be the first choice because you can reach the most markets, and be dubbed over from there.

As far as the Chinese and Asian market's go - Bruce Lee saw the potential and brought Chinese cinema to American shores and the rest was history. The powers that be would need an Asian star in pool to transcend the sport and bring the wave to Europe/America.
QUOTE]

First English is nota dominate language in Chinese negotiation, they understand the power of the American purchasing public, but they also understand that that buying power wants china goods and its a little easier to sell those goods in English.

Major language course at the two largest universities in America UT and Ohio State, Mandarin.

As far as Bruce Lee goes, America was a far more modern place than China was then, we were a far richer country then, our country also had a mystic that airline travel, the internet 300 TV channels has somewhat taken away, and Bruce hadn't heard of the internet yet.

definitely on the same page as far as English as the language of money.

The Bruce Lee analogy was that American audiences were ready for Chinese culture/films. Bruce couldn't land anything other than the Green Hornet's sidekick in America, but he would become a superstar in Hong Kong and Asia from his movies there. He brought the karate movies to Hollywood.

I used that as an example of an Asian star bringing something over to America, as an Asian Ronnie O'Sullivan who dominates could transcend boundaries and bring the sport higher levels in Europe/America (because of the built in millions audience following him from the main land).

And as far as buying power, China and the currency manipulation has already caught up to them (see last weeks crash) and yes, we (America) felt it here, but not in a way the world felt it when we had the crash in 2008. The only reason to speak Mandarin would be to set up manufacturing over there, not to sell or invest in real estate. It's not Chinese goods that the economy is interested in, they want American goods made cheaply in China (see Apple and the iPhone).

 

[Petros Andrikop]

Pool does need a pro league, but that needs a lot of work by the industry and change of mentality in terms of organization.

Pool pros are not protected anymore in competition by modern tournament format and that doesn't give any opportunity to form a pro league.

Besides that Pool is not tv friendly, not really interesting for people who don't play, and modern presentation is too "sporty" already making it look more as a game than a sport.

So big companies outside Pool industry have no reason to get involved in order to support a pro league, a relative business plan has to be put together but the Pool world has to get it done and present it, which brings us back at the beginning and the continuation of a vicious circle.

Pool has potential, but the material is kind of "raw" and is not exploited enough.

So, especially when seeing Pool halls closing after many years of work, I wouldn't say Pool is doing "fine" (I wouldn't say it's "dead" either) as a sport, maybe as a Friday night drink accessory it does, but not as Pool...

 

[gxman]

Whats the real number of league players? I keep hearing 100K+ ?

 

[trob]

No one said its dead world wide ... It's in the United States that it's dead. If you don't believe ask the pros how there doing financially,,,or how there pro tour is going. Oh that's right there isn't one lol

 

[M.G.]

Pool hustling and "getting action" is dead - which is good and long overdue, because it gave pool a lousy reputation and seedy pool halls. And it made being a blood sucker possible and feasible.

Serious pool playing, tournaments and professional players with stamina AND a humble, friendly personality (think Thorsten Hohmann or Shane van Boening) is very much alive. Snooker, too.
Earl Strickland's hissy fits were to no ones advancements.

Do we really need raw numbers of leagues and price money?
Are people enjoying watching and enjoying trying for themselves or once in a while with friends? Is it perceived as a friendly and broad sport?

That should be our measurement.

Cheers,
M

 

[336Robin]

Marketing Marketing Marketing

Ive had this conversation a lot with a lot of people and what I find amazing in the lack of Marketing done by room owners.

I am not a room owner but if I were I would market and use my pool tables as bait to provide myself with an inflow of new people/customers.

The simplest of idea I had was to develop a mailing list geared toward the demographic I wanted to attract. Then simply develop an 8.5 x 11 poster advertisement sent to those addresses. It cost what less than .50c for postage?

if you want seniors who come play during the day, Send Senior Centers an ad letting them know, you have something for them.

If you want women, send it to Beauty Shops.

if you want fast food workers send it to McDonalds and the like. Marketing Pool doesn't have to be so expensive it just has to be effective and hit your desired demographic.

I don't know that with the current conditions that exist that the trends will ever cause room owners to become active marketers but I would be if my money were on the line.

 

[krupa]

Ive had this conversation a lot with a lot of people and what I find amazing in the lack of Marketing done by room owners.

I am not a room owner but if I were I would market and use my pool tables as bait to provide myself with an inflow of new people/customers.

The simplest of idea I had was to develop a mailing list geared toward the demographic I wanted to attract. Then simply develop an 8.5 x 11 poster advertisement sent to those addresses. It cost what less than .50c for postage?

if you want seniors who come play during the day, Send Senior Centers an ad letting them know, you have something for them.

If you want women, send it to Beauty Shops.

if you want fast food workers send it to McDonalds and the like. Marketing Pool doesn't have to be so expensive it just has to be effective and hit your desired demographic.

I don't know that with the current conditions that exist that the trends will ever cause room owners to become active marketers but I would be if my money were on the line.

You're correct that marketing is important, but snail mail? You're a little behind the times. You need to be on Facebook and Twitter and whateverthehellelse people are addicted to. Then you need to actively update it... as in daily. I "liked" various local small businesses on Facebook and if they update more than twice a year I'm shocked. You can't even figure out who's still in business.

One of the hitches in snail mail is that you need people's addresses and no one wants to give them out because... they don't like junk mail! However, everyone looks at the internet to get business addresses, check daily specials, etc., and it's trivial for them to hit "Like" or "Follow" and then you can update them all in 5 minutes spending... nothing? (I don't know if businesses have to pay for Facebook accounts.)

 

[336Robin]

I dont disagree with you at all.

I don't disagree with you at all but.....Im 53 a lot of us guys don't facebook even if we have facebook presence, so if you wanted lets say a bunch of guys to come in during the day to practice and play. You might try sending something to the barbershop where people talk about it. Word of mouth will always be a powerful tool in marketing but first you have to get people talking and nothing does it better that direct marketing to an address readily found on the internet or even in a phone book.


I just find it hard to understand that when all of this information is present and accessible that more marketing isn't done. Im sure if there were a need that it would get done because people tend to find a way when they are backed up in a corner. For me the overall health of the industry is going to be directly related to the entrance of youth into the life cycle of pool players. We have an very inactive governing body when it comes to the lifecycle I speak of. So one could say its their fault that they have not come forth with a program for education for room owners but those statements would only be partially right. When you see the numbers of people that play pool and adore pool players on this planet in other countries you have to wonder....just what in heck did we do wrong?

We need a drop kick of some kind to get us moving in the right direction but it seems that pool leagues are providing the only marketing that is being done that owners don't have to fool with, which is nice but that doesn't always put a high percentage of profits in an owners pocket.

What I would think would, would involve some soft marketing practices, a local instructor to give people free pool lessons to get them to where they could play and enjoy the game. If you create a player at the beginning of the life cycle he has to enjoy himself/herself a lot more and around that you can build something beautiful right there in your home room. One room at a time.

What I hear you saying about Facebook is totally true but when you look for a demographic for instant customers the guy that has the time is retired and not necessarily of the Facebook age and he is not alone so marketing on Facebook could miss a base of customers that you could get to become regulars.

I don't see this as a right or wrong issue. I see it overall as a conundrum. People know of pool so why is so little marketing being done for pool? It surely isn't the responsibility of anyone other that the owners of the rooms. You can suggest all day long ways to do it but they are busy enough Im sure just keeping compliant with the rules and regs of running a business that serves alcohol. Anything involving state government in your business is going to take up a lot of your time. As a retired State Government Employee I this only too well. At any rate if people don't know of the availability of a product they wont even think about it, this is where I see that pool is. People just don't know its available and in many cases it isn't being packaged right.

You're correct that marketing is important, but snail mail? You're a little behind the times. You need to be on Facebook and Twitter and whateverthehellelse people are addicted to. Then you need to actively update it... as in daily. I "liked" various local small businesses on Facebook and if they update more than twice a year I'm shocked. You can't even figure out who's still in business.

One of the hitches in snail mail is that you need people's addresses and no one wants to give them out because... they don't like junk mail! However, everyone looks at the internet to get business addresses, check daily specials, etc., and it's trivial for them to hit "Like" or "Follow" and then you can update them all in 5 minutes spending... nothing? (I don't know if businesses have to pay for Facebook accounts.)