pool match lengths most indicative of skill

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evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
for tv or not, I'm curious what everybody thinks are respectable match lengths for the most popular pool games- 8, 9, 10, 1hole, and 14.1- ?

for instance, I definitely think races to 7 in 9-ball is too short and could really be a toss-up regardless of who's playing, but a race to 100 is almost another game-
I think the us open this year did pretty decent with races to 11 to start, but I would've liked to see the races get longer as the tourna went on, the final being the longest race-
but that was "for tv," of course..
 
I really think if you had races to 3 in 9 ball, the vast majority of match results would be the same as a race to 15. Sure, there will be some upsets, but in the long run, the same top guys would still win everything.

IMO:)
 
But to answer your question, when I was gambling a lot, I kind of did this:

8 ball: never played unless it was a gaff game
9 ball: sets up to about $40 race to 5. Sets for $50 to $200 race to 7. Sets for $200 and above race to 9.
10 ball: never played.
14.1: As bangers we gambled to 50 points. When we got better we gambled to 100 points.
1 pocket: Was almost alway by the game, whether 5 a game or 1k per game. The few times a race was done, maybe a race to 3 for a couple hundred, or a race to 5 if 500 or above.

YMMV:)
 
evergruven said:
for tv or not, I'm curious what everybody thinks are respectable match lengths for the most popular pool games- 8, 9, 10, 1hole, and 14.1- ?

for instance, I definitely think races to 7 in 9-ball is too short and could really be a toss-up regardless of who's playing, but a race to 100 is almost another game-
I think the us open this year did pretty decent with races to 11 to start, but I would've liked to see the races get longer as the tourna went on, the final being the longest race-
but that was "for tv," of course..
Click to expand...
In the old days, some matches went on for a couple of weeks. We have recently seen weekend or three-day matches.

If you tell me how much advantage you want to give the better player and how far apart the two players are (FargoRate or similar scale), I can tell you the length of the race. Example: players 20 points apart, better player should win 90% of the time, race is to 178 (as a WAG).

It all depends on what you want to do.

What I want to do is to have exciting matches for TV because a large audience can pay big bucks to the winner and indirectly improve the standing of pool. I think 11 is fine. Five would be too short for the Mosconi Cup if the event was not cumulative. A three-session match (total eight hours?) will be interesting when pool has better-known heroes that can draw large audiences.
 
If your talking about pros in tournament play.
If tv, time, and expenses are not a factor.
I like round robin formats.
Round robin stages:
Winner breaks-
8 ball- race to 10
9 ball- race to 13
14.1- to 300
1 pocket- race to 5(alternate break)


Knock out stages(single elimination)
8- race to 15
9- race to 17
14- to 500
1- race to 7(alternate break)
 
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In my younger days, I experienced the following more than not:

All rotation games, banks and 1hole was always by the game unless we got it out of the dirt.

14.1 was normally to 125 but, we would race to "whatever" if the $$$ was right. At times, we may even play by the point.

Rosie/golf..... anywhere from $1/.25 to several k/hundred a hicky.

Just never knew what was gonna walk through the door......
 
For 9 Ball; after watching many, many pro matches from the 1980's, up until the present........ I say Race to 9 or Race to 11. Many exciting 9 Ball matches have occurred; that were either Race to 9, or Race to 11.
 
iusedtoberich said:
I really think if you had races to 3 in 9 ball, the vast majority of match results would be the same as a race to 15. Sure, there will be some upsets, but in the long run, the same top guys would still win everything.

IMO:)
Click to expand...

Bob Jewett said:
In the old days, some matches went on for a couple of weeks. We have recently seen weekend or three-day matches.

If you tell me how much advantage you want to give the better player and how far apart the two players are (FargoRate or similar scale), I can tell you the length of the race. Example: players 20 points apart, better player should win 90% of the time, race is to 178 (as a WAG).

It all depends on what you want to do.

What I want to do is to have exciting matches for TV because a large audience can pay big bucks to the winner and indirectly improve the standing of pool. I think 11 is fine. Five would be too short for the Mosconi Cup if the event was not cumulative. A three-session match (total eight hours?) will be interesting when pool has better-known heroes that can draw large audiences.
Click to expand...

right..say we use fargo as a measuring stick, at what point do wu or shane most win over other pros, without the game essential turning into a marathon?

bob, where would you/anybody else who wants to chime in draw the line on different levels of pros per fargo?
i.e. 800+ 750+ 700+

I like longer matches, I just wonder if it's fair to say that players who do well in short races should do well in long races.

should top pros be able to compete in short and long races just as well? are there any pros who play top pool that don't like really long races?

the last thing you said reminds me of multiple session-long snooker matches..it would be interesting if we get to that point with pool.

thanks all for the replies!
 
For the World Championship and US 9 Ball I reckon:

World Championship: Double elimination races to 9 alternate break up until the last 16, Then single elimination Round of 16, quarters and semis race to 13, final race to 17 - all alternate break

US Open (traditionally a winner breaks tournament): double elimination race to 11 winner breaks until the last 16. Round of 16, quarters and semis race to 11 winner breaks, final race to 13 winner breaks.

If there is ever a world “tour” race to 11 in the final is more than enough if there are several opportunities for the better players to go deep in any given tournament.

Well, that’s the pro game. For non-pro, non- elite amateur events shorter races are just fine. If you play your A game consistently in a shorter race you deserve to win.

For 10 ball and 8 ball we could go a little shorter.
 
evergruven said:
right..say we use fargo as a measuring stick, at what point do wu or shane most win over other pros, without the game essential turning into a marathon?

bob, where would you/anybody else who wants to chime in draw the line on different levels of pros per fargo?
i.e. 800+ 750+ 700+

...
Click to expand...
FargoRate.com allows calculation of match probabilities based on ratings.

If an 820 plays a 780 a race to 40, the stronger player is roughly 90% favored to win. But a match where there is that strong a favorite is not very interesting.

You can put in the players and the races yourself.
 
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