POOL MOST DIFFICULT SPORT

jsp said:
Pool is not even in the top half of the most difficult cue 'sports'.
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If all of the games I have played had a subjective skill index, and as bad as I am in pool, I am still "relatively"closer to a pro pool player than, say a pro ping pong player, pro golfer, pro anything .
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Golf is defined by how difficult it is to shoot par or sub-par on any and all golf courses. Not by how far a drive is hit. There are par 3 holes, par 4 holes, par 5 holes, and a total par for each course. Hole distances range from a little over 100 yards to over 600 yards. 10 strokes on every hole wouldn't be considered playing golf, it would be a total hacker that's infuriating everyone else
that's stuck playing behind him.
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So what is “par” for pool?
 
Cameron Smith said:
So what is “par” for pool?
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This is a good question, and one that's been discussed quite a bit. 'Par' in golf is defined as the number of strokes needed to complete a hole at an expert level. So what is an expert level at pool is the question and there is some disagreement here even between rating systems as seen on this comparative chart.

billiards.colostate.edu

ABCD Player Rating System - Dr. Dave Pool Info

Answers to frequently-asked questions about the ABCD player rating system in pool.
billiards.colostate.edu billiards.colostate.edu

I'd say a Fargo above 650 probably gets you in the club. In tangible terms for guys without Fargos, probably something like being a favorite over the 9b ghost or running like 80 in straight pool sounds about right to me.
 
I try to play both pool and golf. I'm a 5.7 handicap in golf and a 630 something in pool. About an equal level of incompetence in both. If I had to vote which is more difficult for me, I'd say golf. I have wider swings of inconsistency in golf. So many more intangibles. More clubs, more different shot types, weather, grass, totally different courses, etc. I went from 2 under par to 90 last year and every where in between.
Pool, I can take off long stretches of time and still be fairly competent. Golf is usually a disaster if I go a couple months without playing.
They both share a lot of similarities. You are alone and your own worst enemy. You got to beat yourself first. Pre shot setups are similar. You've got to experience the shot before you pull the trigger. They're both great games in their own right.
Notice this, nobody is the best at both. Both games take unique talents to reach the top. True gifts. Nobody without the super gifts can climb that mountain. The rest of us are mere mortals.
 
SeniorTom said:
Anybody can pick up a golf club and hit a ball, throw a football, hit a baseball, and roll a bowling ball. The hard part or difficulty is mastering the game to a point where you match the best in the world. Imagine what it would take to get to a point to play like and Earl Strickland, svb, and so on. It takes a lifetime of dedication and practice. These guys live and breathe Billiards their entire life to compete at their level, but a person like me who has been playing 6 months thinks he's a decent pool player would be hammered down instantly in the presence of one of these people playing pool.
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How does it take a lifetime if all these guys were champions in their teens and twenties?
 
Podunker said:
I try to play both pool and golf. I'm a 5.7 handicap in golf and a 630 something in pool. About an equal level of incompetence in both. If I had to vote which is more difficult for me, I'd say golf. I have wider swings of inconsistency in golf. So many more intangibles. More clubs, more different shot types, weather, grass, totally different courses, etc. I went from 2 under par to 90 last year and every where in between.
Pool, I can take off long stretches of time and still be fairly competent. Golf is usually a disaster if I go a couple months without playing.
They both share a lot of similarities. You are alone and your own worst enemy. You got to beat yourself first. Pre shot setups are similar. You've got to experience the shot before you pull the trigger. They're both great games in their own right.
Notice this, nobody is the best at both. Both games take unique talents to reach the top. True gifts. Nobody without the super gifts can climb that mountain. The rest of us are mere mortals.
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5.7 cap and 630FR make you 'good' at both sports. The 'mere mortals' are all hanging out somewhere below you, never able to sniff either your HCP or your FR. Then there is a slew of full on motor numpties forever stuck chasing breaking 90 or moving up to an SL5.
 
Podunker said:
I try to play both pool and golf. I'm a 5.7 handicap in golf and a 630 something in pool. About an equal level of incompetence in both. If I had to vote which is more difficult for me, I'd say golf. I have wider swings of inconsistency in golf. So many more intangibles. More clubs, more different shot types, weather, grass, totally different courses, etc. I went from 2 under par to 90 last year and every where in between.
Pool, I can take off long stretches of time and still be fairly competent. Golf is usually a disaster if I go a couple months without playing.
They both share a lot of similarities. You are alone and your own worst enemy. You got to beat yourself first. Pre shot setups are similar. You've got to experience the shot before you pull the trigger. They're both great games in their own right.
Notice this, nobody is the best at both. Both games take unique talents to reach the top. True gifts. Nobody without the super gifts can climb that mountain. The rest of us are mere mortals.
Click to expand...
I guess to each their own, but I took off about 5 years with golf, and came back like I just had played yesterday.
 
DeeDeeCues said:
How does it take a lifetime if all these guys were champions in their teens and twenties?
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Good point. It takes thousands of hours of dedicated practice and play. At 3hrs a day, maybe 10 years. At 8hrs a day, you can get there in 3or4. Obv some level of natural talent, a good mentor, and a true passion for the game to maintain that high level of comittment are also requirements.

edit: forgot to add... the above is to get to a pro level. Once there, they need another several thousand hours learning the intricacies of the game at that level and really level up their game to be GREAT. Earl was a fantastic player his entire career. He seriously leveled up his game in the mid to late 90s and became much more tactically savvy. Feijen came up recently too. Was a good pro but not quite there. Worked a few thousand hours exclusively focused on safeties and tactical play with Alex Lely and won the world championships the next time he was in it.
 
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Cameron Smith said:
So what is “par” for pool?
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PAR isn't a part of the rating system in pool, just golf. The FARGO rating system is the way pool is rated. Or, how much money you win or lose against various speed players. If there's no money ever bet, no FARGO rating, and you're only playing alone or for fun with friends, you might as well just consider yourself one of the greatest players that ever lived and go to sleep happy.
 
SeniorTom said:
I guess to each their own, but I took off about 5 years with golf, and came back like I just had played yesterday.
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Ye depends on the level you reached prior. The competitive golfer who I was lucky enough to be taught by took 2 or 3 years off from the game and didn't even take his clubs when he moved away to Montreal. He came back and I dragged him out for a round. He played butterknife blades, hit every full swing pure, and shot par for the round.... in his first round in years without any practice in between.

Once it is in you that deep from childhood, it's just in you.
Meanwhile, I was playing very well late last golf season and was easily in the 70s in my final 5+ rounds. Put the clubs away and didn't touch them till going out for a round last week. Shot a 99 lol. My good shots were great, but I must have lost like 8 balls on the bad ones.
 
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Podunker said:
I try to play both pool and golf. I'm a 5.7 handicap in golf and a 630 something in pool. About an equal level of incompetence in both. If I had to vote which is more difficult for me, I'd say golf. I have wider swings of inconsistency in golf. So many more intangibles. More clubs, more different shot types, weather, grass, totally different courses, etc. I went from 2 under par to 90 last year and every where in between.
Pool, I can take off long stretches of time and still be fairly competent. Golf is usually a disaster if I go a couple months without playing.
They both share a lot of similarities. You are alone and your own worst enemy. You got to beat yourself first. Pre shot setups are similar. You've got to experience the shot before you pull the trigger. They're both great games in their own right.
Notice this, nobody is the best at both. Both games take unique talents to reach the top. True gifts. Nobody without the super gifts can climb that mountain. The rest of us are mere mortals.
Click to expand...
I'd say you've done pretty damn well in both of them and definitely a good bit over average in the two.
 
I used to golf a lot,on a real good day I would nibbles in the low 90's but more often then not breaking a 100 was a good day.
One day on a fairly easy course that I had played many times I made the turn at 38,was this the day I would record my lifetime low score (which was and still is an 86)?
Nope the golf gods denied me this as I fell apart on the back 9.
It made the whole day of golf miserable for me and at that point I decided golf should be fun regardless of the score,other than playing in tournaments where score keeping is mandatory I never kept score again until I gave up golf about 5 years ago.
 
measureman said:
I used to golf a lot,on a real good day I would nibbles in the low 90's but more often then not breaking a 100 was a good day.
One day on a fairly easy course that I had played many times I made the turn at 38,was this the day I would record my lifetime low score (which was and still is an 86)?
Nope the golf gods denied me this as I fell apart on the back 9.
It made the whole day of golf miserable for me and at that point I decided golf should be fun regardless of the score,other than playing in tournaments where score keeping is mandatory I never kept score again until I gave up golf about 5 years ago.
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ye, that sounds way easier than pool :p
 
When I hear Mark or Earl say that Pool is the hardest, I hear COMPLEX in my mind. Pool is not the hardest sport to execute at the amateur level but at the Pro Level the game is super complex and requires amazing precision. Chess is also something that is exceedingly complex. And to me all the Cue sports are included when talking about how hard Pool is. The contact point between balls is so small and the contact point on the cue ball is so critical. Unless playing center ball missing the tip position on the cue ball by a millimeter will be the difference between continuing at the table or taking a seat. Potentially never rising from that seat again the whole match. No other "activity" has such a devastating impact from missing by a millimeter. JMHO
 
A lot probably depends on when we were exposed to these great games and how they settled into our dna. I started playing pool in my teens and started golf at around 50ish. I didn't play competitive pool for 30yrs, business/family, but always seemed to be able to move balls around. Golf, I have to work my ass off or the card house will quickly crumble. I'm pushing 68 now. Who gives a shit which is harder. Go out enjoy whatever you do.
 
WobblyStroke said:
This is a good question, and one that's been discussed quite a bit. 'Par' in golf is defined as the number of strokes needed to complete a hole at an expert level. So what is an expert level at pool is the question and there is some disagreement here even between rating systems as seen on this comparative chart.

billiards.colostate.edu

ABCD Player Rating System - Dr. Dave Pool Info

Answers to frequently-asked questions about the ABCD player rating system in pool.
billiards.colostate.edu billiards.colostate.edu

I'd say a Fargo above 650 probably gets you in the club. In tangible terms for guys without Fargos, probably something like being a favorite over the 9b ghost or running like 80 in straight pool sounds about right to me.
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One way to find the comparable standard might be to compare the frequency of scratch golfers to something similar in pool. For example, 1.6% of golfers who carry a USGA handicap are scratch or better (40,000). So what Fargo rating accounts for 1.6% of the Fargo Rated population and how far is that from a tour pro? My guess has been that 675 is roughly comparable because they both are very good and can seem like they aren’t far from pros, but in reality there is a gulf in skill between them
 
Allen Hopkins created a game that anybody can do at home on their own table and get a ranking. Here are the rules for the game. You may think this is easy, but it's NOT. Don't cheat, you're only cheating yourself.


1. Rack fifteen balls on the Foot Spot, in any order, and place the cue ball ON the Head Spot. Break the balls. If you miscue or miss the cue ball completely, it is a foul. Re-Rack, break again and subtract one from your score. If you miscue and contact the rack, you may choose to continue shooting, leaving the balls where they lie and not take a foul.

2. If you scratch on the break, it is a minus 1, unless the cue ball goes off the table, then it is a minus 2. After a scratch on the break, you may place the cue ball on either the Head Spot of Foot Spot and shoot any ball on the table, or place the cue ball anywhere behind the Head String and shoot any ball above the Head String. On the break, if you scratch or the cue ball goes off the table, all balls made on the break stay down but do not count as points. If you do not scratch on the break, then all balls made on the break count as one point each.

3. After the break, if you do not have a shot or do not like the shot you have, you may choose one of three options. (a) Place the cue ball anywhere behind the Head String and shoot any ball above the Head String. (b) Place the cue ball on either the Head Spot or the Foot Spot and shoot any ball.
(c) Place the rack over the cue ball (where it lies) and move the cue ball anywhere inside the rack and shoot any ball. All of the options noted above are a penalty and incur a minus 1.

4. After the break, whether you made a ball or not, proceed to shoot, calling each shot. Try to run the table, shooting the ball in any order UNTIL THERE ARE FIVE BALLS REMAINING. If you do pocket ten balls, then the last five balls must be shot IN ROTATION (in numerical order starting with the lowest number ball). If you MISS A SHOT, the rack is OVER. There are no second chances or mulligans! The first ten balls score 1 point each, and the last five balls score 2 points each. On each rack you can score a MAXIMUM of 20 points.

5. When there are six balls on the table and you pocket two or more balls in one shot, they all stay down and are each worth 1 point. Shoot the remaining balls in rotation, in which each ball is worth 2 points each.

6. Ten racks comprise a session. In one session you can score a maximum of 200 points. The score from FIVE SESSIONS (50 racks) determines your Official Rating. The highest possible Official Rating is a perfect score of 1000 points.

Here is the Rating System:

0-150 - Recreational Player
151-300 - Intermediate Player
301-450 - Advanced Player
451-600- Developing Pro
601-800 - Semi-Pro
801-900 - Pro
901-1000 - Touring Pro
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Great point. Is chess considered a sport or a game? They both require thinking and planning well in advance. So does golf.
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I'd say chess is a game because the physical actions are not challenging to an able bodied person. While pool does require precise physical execution, I don't think it takes a notable strength or coordination level and the mechanical movement is relatively simple. I'd actually admit that the golf swing takes a good bit of coordination and some strength to perform at a marginally acceptable level. It's still just a dumb game where you do nothing but use a stick to roll a ball into a hole, but I guess it does cross the threshold to be considered a "sport".
 
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