Pool needs a Lipscomb... A MUST READ!

Colin Colenso said:
This is a detailed story of how Steve Lipscomb turned the seedy although high participation sport of poker (much like pool is today) into a sports / TV / business phenomenon.

Pool doesn't need the olympics, it needs a talent like Steve Lipscomb.

Read this:
http://www.inc.com/magazine/20050501/poker.html
Click to expand...

Pool can have big payouts also, all you have to do is charge $10,000 entry fee and have a few hundred players show up.
 
macguy said:
Pool can have big payouts also, all you have to do is charge $10,000 entry fee and have a few hundred players show up.
Click to expand...

LOL! Surely you remember the $1-million tournament which never got off the ground.

One aspiring pool promoter already tried to host a $1-million pool tournament in Vegas, which required a $10,000 entry fee posted ahead of time.

They received very few takers, and most people, to include players, pool enthusiasts, and fans, were quite skeptical of the unknown-to-most promoter. Even though there were qualifiers around the country to get into the $1-million tournament, it didn't seem to catch on, maybe due to the lack of advertisement.

Having said that, nobody seemed to blink an eye when it came time to pay a $5,000 entry fee for the $130,000-guaranteed Skins Billiards Championship which was promoted by Billiards International and Allen Hopkins, most likely because both Hopkins and Braun have a sterling reputation in the industry when it comes to high-profile events (IMO).

I don't know too many pool players who can come up with 10 dimes for an entry fee unless, of course, they get staked or are sponsored.

JMHO, FWIW!

JAM
 
What? - Is there 200 Efrens?

macguy said:
Pool can have big payouts also, all you have to do is charge $10,000 entry fee and have a few hundred players show up.
Click to expand...

In this fantasy tournament - Efren would have his choice of maybe 10,000 backers!

TY & GL
 
OldHasBeen said:
In this fantasy tournament - Efren would have his choice of maybe 10,000 backers!

TY & GL
Click to expand...
Well, that way they would only have to pay maybe $1 each :D
 
JAM said:
LOL! Surely you remember the $1-million tournament which never got off the ground.

One aspiring pool promoter already tried to host a $1-million pool tournament in Vegas, which required a $10,000 entry fee posted ahead of time.

They received very few takers, and most people, to include players, pool enthusiasts, and fans, were quite skeptical of the unknown-to-most promoter. Even though there were qualifiers around the country to get into the $1-million tournament, it didn't seem to catch on, maybe due to the lack of advertisement.

Having said that, nobody seemed to blink an eye when it came time to pay a $5,000 entry fee for the $130,000-guaranteed Skins Billiards Championship which was promoted by Billiards International and Allen Hopkins, most likely because both Hopkins and Braun have a sterling reputation in the industry when it comes to high-profile events (IMO).

I don't know too many pool players who can come up with 10 dimes for an entry fee unless, of course, they get staked or are sponsored.

JMHO, FWIW!

JAM
Click to expand...


I am going by memory which is not always good but, years ago I think it was Richie Florence or Mike Battle who put on a big money tournament with $1000. entry fees. Here was the catch, last place was $600. so the entry fee was really $400. The idea was to be able to advertise a $100,000 plus tournament to get some media attention. If you think about it, when you see those poker players betting hundreds of thousands dollars they really aren't but it excites the public to see them bet the pretend money. It is not like they could just get up from the table and leave with the money, it is pretend. The winners win the set prizes even though they may have four million in front of them at the end of the tournament. The public says, "I could never bet $400,000" But the money is not real it might just as well be points. The sound of the money is what attracts the audience, although they do win substantial prize money, just not what they appear to be betting.
 
Last edited:
its the game...not the man....

Poker is not huge because of Lipscomb...well it is...but that's not the real issue in regards to pool. Why is poker so huge right now with ever Tom Dick and Harry you run into.... because they (you, me and everybody else) thinks they can do it. Why do they think they can do it? Because the rules are easy, its luck, not skill, that wins out over the short term, and it is easy to think you are a skilled player...basically because of the first two points. And there is little evidence to dissuade this perception of the game...just look at the nobodies that won the past few years in the main event of the World Series of Poker.... ANYBODY CAN WIN THIS THING. Luck is the overarching "perceived nature" of poker. The public fascination with poker is firmly rooted in the perception that "I can do that...no problem” It is the nature of the game that makes the explosion possible.

The major reason this won't ever happen for pool is that while every Tom, Dick and Harry that you run into "thinks" they can play pool...it is very evident that they don't when matched with higher caliber players. They suck and they know it...hell, I suck and I know it. Skill is the overarching "nature" (perceived or otherwise) of the game of pool. And while it is very easy to fool yourself into thinking you are more skilled than you are...it is very easy for someone to prove just how much you suck.

Fortunately for poker...anybody can win...and that is a FACT. This is EVIDENTLY NOT TRUE OF POOL...and that is a FACT. In the end Poker is playing apple to Pool's orange.

The Dropper
 
The Dropper said:
Poker is not huge because of Lipscomb...well it is...but that's not the real issue in regards to pool. Why is poker so huge right now with ever Tom Dick and Harry you run into.... because they (you, me and everybody else) thinks they can do it. Why do they think they can do it? Because the rules are easy, its luck, not skill, that wins out over the short term, and it is easy to think you are a skilled player...basically because of the first two points. And there is little evidence to dissuade this perception of the game...just look at the nobodies that won the past few years in the main event of the World Series of Poker.... ANYBODY CAN WIN THIS THING. Luck is the overarching "perceived nature" of poker. The public fascination with poker is firmly rooted in the perception that "I can do that...no problem” It is the nature of the game that makes the explosion possible.

The major reason this won't ever happen for pool is that while every Tom, Dick and Harry that you run into "thinks" they can play pool...it is very evident that they don't when matched with higher caliber players. They suck and they know it...hell, I suck and I know it. Skill is the overarching "nature" (perceived or otherwise) of the game of pool. And while it is very easy to fool yourself into thinking you are more skilled than you are...it is very easy for someone to prove just how much you suck.

Fortunately for poker...anybody can win...and that is a FACT. This is EVIDENTLY NOT TRUE OF POOL...and that is a FACT. In the end Poker is playing apple to Pool's orange.

The Dropper
Click to expand...

The Dropper,
You have a point but I think it is just one factor to consider.

That argument is contradicted by the success of games like golf and tennis etc etc. Skill sports can be very successful.

The others said it is the money that draws the attention, but I don't think it is the key part.

The key part is the content, that is the quality of production. Even if these guys were playing for 10 grand I would have been fixated watching the matches and mental battles the way it is prepared for TV viewers.

What is really driving the sport is TV popularity, and that happened due to Lipscomb's new production methods / format / content creation.

It is created as more than just the sport. It creates some insight into the characters and develops an attractive story. We don't even have to know the participants.

Contrast this to 9-ball production. Only the hardcore pool fans are gonna watch the players they don't know. For most, the game may be colorful and slightly interesting at best.
 
Make that 10,000 and 1

OldHasBeen said:
In this fantasy tournament - Efren would have his choice of maybe 10,000 backers!

TY & GL
Click to expand...


Make that 10,001 (I like that one)

Ken
 
A great number of losers will soon learn that POKER is not a fun game. The local Pool halls around Tulsa have suffered a bit, because of the Indian Gaming business. This won't be a trap for me. How could any one think money grows on trees at the Casino, especially if anyone can win? Money doesn't grow on Trees at the Pool Hall, but it's a sure bet the 3 Speeds aren't getting the cash.

The Golf & Tennis business is backed by lots of money. All the big cities have large country clubs that have several members who could sponsor the TV Tournament with their own money. The Tournaments incorporate celebrities, local business owners, large corporation officers & TV Sponsors. Huge galleries walk around buying merchandise & liquor... they make the money & put on a show while doing it. When you attend one of these extravaganzas, you are gonna spend some money.

When I attended the WPC Championship at JOB's in Nashville, there weren't 50 people watching? 50 people at $25 each would NOT pay the 1st Place Money...

The TV media & the sportswriters aren't a friend to the Billiards Industry, they like sports like football, basketketball, baseball & so on. Ever wonder why the stadium only holds 85,000 when there are 10 million citizens in New York City? The answer is twofold.. The action is hard to watch from a bleacher that is too far away from the playing field & there aren't that many people in town who really give a shit about the game.... Yep... there is less than 1% who really care to support the team. If the local sports writers would print a column in their newspaper about the local & national billiard scene, the support for the players & teams would grow locally, then regionally, statewide & then nationally... then we will have something.
 
Last edited:
Colin Colenso said:
The Dropper,
You have a point but I think it is just one factor to consider.

That argument is contradicted by the success of games like golf and tennis etc etc. Skill sports can be very successful.

The others said it is the money that draws the attention, but I don't think it is the key part.

The key part is the content, that is the quality of production. Even if these guys were playing for 10 grand I would have been fixated watching the matches and mental battles the way it is prepared for TV viewers.

What is really driving the sport is TV popularity, and that happened due to Lipscomb's new production methods / format / content creation.

It is created as more than just the sport. It creates some insight into the characters and develops an attractive story. We don't even have to know the participants.

Contrast this to 9-ball production. Only the hardcore pool fans are gonna watch the players they don't know. For most, the game may be colorful and slightly interesting at best.
Click to expand...


You make good point...perhaps I should clarify. I was mainly commenting on the repeated notion that pool can be raised from the depths like poker was. Using Poker as a template somehow for pools ascension. I think it is a little harder because of the different "natures of the games" and they would need different methods to get "out of the backroom". That does not mean I don't think it can't be done for pool...it will be tricky though...there is no "hole cam" for pool ;)

I just deleted most of my post because after a lot of wrangling I am coming to your conclusion. We need someone to pull this all together and make it a “watchable” and exciting sport again. Get into players personalities and let me root for somebody. How can it be made interesting and fun to watch for people who don't play? How can it be televised so it attracts people to the sport? How do we get people to have a favorite player and want to be like him or her? How do were get junior to bug his dad for a pool cue so he can be just like The Magician. The answers to these questions would be good for pool...answering them is hard.

I think what would need to happen is to pull all the major tournaments under one organizing body and have the tournaments repackaged and televised so that I can follow a player and get interested and wait eagerly for it to come on next week to see what happened. Clean up the rule book and make it dead simple….give me a running total leader board so I can track my guy…. give me meaningful commentary…give me side-by-side table action culminating in the two winners from the tables playing right then.…. give me player insight and tips and tricks….give me player nicknames and bios…make it a two-hour show and put it on cable. Problem solved ;)

The Dropper
 
ceebee said:
A great number of losers will soon learn that POKER is not a fun game. The local Pool halls around Tulsa have suffered a bit, because of the Indian Gaming business. This won't be a trap for me. How could any one think money grows on trees at the Casino, especially if anyone can win? Money doesn't grow on Trees at the Pool Hall, but it's a sure bet the 3 Speeds aren't getting the cash.

The Golf & Tennis business is backed by lots of money. All the big cities have large country clubs that have several members who could sponsor the TV Tournament with their own money. The Tournaments incorporate celebrities, local business owners, large corporation officers & TV Sponsors. Huge galleries walk around buying merchandise & liquor... they make the money & put on a show while doing it. When you attend one of these extravaganzas, you are gonna spend some money.

When I attended the WPC Championship at JOB's in Nashville, there weren't 50 people watching? 50 people at $25 each would NOT pay the 1st Place Money...

The TV media & the sportswriters aren't a friend to the Billiards Industry, they like sports like football, basketketball, baseball & so on. Ever wonder why the stadium only holds 85,000 when there are 10 million citizens in New York City? The answer is twofold.. The action is hard to watch from a bleacher that is too far away from the playing field & there aren't that many people in town who really give a shit about the game.... Yep... there is less than 1% who really care to support the team. If the local sports writers would print a column in their newspaper about the local & national billiard scene, the support for the players & teams would grow locally, then regionally, statewide & then nationally... then we will have something.
Click to expand...


I had a few comments of this order that I deleted form my previous post:

Just about any sport you watch...basketball, baseball, football, golf, tennis, curling, you name it...is a skill game that tons of people love to watch, but don't compete at that level. Why does anybody watch baseball football or pool for that matter? Because somewhere along the line they played, either in high school or college, formed friendships and relationships around the game, enjoyed rooting for a team and being a fan. Most of these sports are so ingrained in the national mind that they are defacto "watchable" sports. Golf, being possible the closest in relation to pool, is huge why? Because of the money. It is not inherently fun to watch, nor is it played extensively in high school or college, but it is a major tool in the business world, not just here but in Asia as well. That means big sponsors, big TV deals and lots of people seeing it. I, for one, have never played golf and rarely if ever watch it...it just isn't me....yet. But I bet that if I was in upper management and needed golf in my repertoire (so to speak) I would play it, get obsessed with it, buy all the gadget and sit in front of my TV, starry eyed and dazed at the greens, the players, and the game of golf.

The problem with pool is that it, like golf, is not inherently fun to watch nor is it played extensively in organized school sports. The difference being that business deals are not being made over the green felt of a 9 footer. There is little impetus to move from the backroom...or into the national media like golf is/has. Golf also has that "gentleman’s game" persona going for it...while pool is torn between its hustler past and its gentlemanly aspirations.

The Dropper
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top