Pool photography

PoolSharkAllen

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yesterday, I thought I would try out my new camera and zoom lens by taking pictures of the players where I play at.

Since I'd like to get more involved with pool photography at the places I go to, I would be interested in knowing what type of camera equipment (camera and lenses) other advanced pool photographers use? What aperture and shutter speed you typically shoot at?

Are there special problems with pool photography that you have had to work around?

Two players complained that my camera shutter click (no flash) caused them to miss. :eek: It's interesting that players can tune out distractions like background music and people talking but seem to be overly-sensitive to a camera shutter clicking. Has this been a problem for you too and how do you work around it?

Initially, I had my camera set to aperture priority so that I could get adequate depth-of-field. Now I'm thinking that perhaps using shutter priority may be the better approach so that I can stop the action without blur when a player shoots. Is shutter priority the way to go here? And what shutter speed do you recommend?

Thanks in advance for your comments.
 
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I am just leaving for the pool hall and don't have time for an extensive reply, but here is my main tip for you. Get and use a monopod! You have to use pretty slow shutter speeds for most pool photography and a monopod will let you get away with these slow speeds.
 
I agree, a monopod will probably yield you the best results in low light situations. I've given up taking pictures indoors at pool tournaments because my results are poor even with a good camera and lens.

As a pool player, yes, I can hear the camera clicking away all the way across the room if the music isn't too loud. This has caused me to miss shots in the past, but no fault of the photographer. Just something pool players aren't use to. I can tune out music, talking, and background noise because that stuff is usually constant. With the camera clicking, it something that is very sudden and catches the players attention. Same thing with cell phones and anything else that makes noise all of a sudden and that isn't constant.

Thats the other reason I gave up on pool photography. Because I know what it feels like to hear the camera clicking right before my shot, I would wait to take the picture of a player until right after their stroke, but by that time the player has jumped up from their shot and the picture never comes out good.

Good luck.
 
I always use manual exposure and set the camera to underexpose by one to two f-stops. This helps stop the burn-out of the bridge arm that is so common. You can bring the shot back into proper exposure by using the levels command in photoshop.

If you have a noisy camera you MUST wait until after the stroke to shoot. Actually, this is the best time to shoot anyway as it is when you capture the emotion on the face of a missed or made shot.

Finally, if you need one good shot of a player, take fifty shots. Most of them will be crap, but you only needed one. The best photographer I ever knew told me the difference between an amateur and a pro is that the amateur only takes one shot while the pros shoot the same shot at different exposures and shoot it over and over again.

OH, and don't play cheapo with your lenses. Get yourself a good 70-210 zoom that stays at 2.8 throughout the range. If your zoom runs you up to 4.5 or more when you zoom in then it is acting against you. A good lens in this range can be had for around $1200.
 
I shoot mostly weddings and have only ventured into pool photography a few times, but the basics are the same. Believe me, a dark church with a fast-moving bride can be more challenging than a dark pool hall.

1) Find the light - The light source in pool halls is typically the lights above the tables. Use that. Make sure that you take pictures of people when they are facing that light.

2) Use a mono-pod - as has been mentioned, a good monopod will allow you to shoot at slower shutter speeds. This won't stop you from getting motion blur on your photos though as the players or balls move. Sometimes you can get cool effects from that though.

3) Get the best lenses and camera you can afford. I shoot weddings with a Nikon D3. I haven't shot a pool tournament with it yet, but I can't imagine a better camera for that. Actually, I can. The Canon 5D MKII in movie mode allows you to take still photos - And the shutter is absolutely silent when you do this. (so I've heard) So no more shutter click. It's also quite a bit cheaper than the D3. And it shoots HD video too.

As for F-stop and shutter speed - that is going to vary based on the ISO you use and the lighting conditions. I think Jerry's advice about setting your camera to manual and underexpose it (according to the camera's matrix metering system) by two stops or so to cut out the highlights is good. Use the highest ISO you can and shoot RAW if you can. RAW on Nikons will allow you to pull back quite a bit of blown highlights. Underexposing with higher ISOs will cause noise. So even though above it looks like I'm saying to underexpose, I'm not. But your camera in Matrix metering mode will try to make the scene brighter than it should be due to the mostly dark areas and hence will overexpose. So the -2 stops above is really to arrive at a good exposure.

Another way to get the right exposure is to set your camera to Manual and turn on Spot metering. Set your F-stop to the smallest number (largest opening). Then find a player who is in the light and put the spot on the bright spot on their arm or face and adjust your shutter speed until your camera meter reads +2. That will expose the bright spots to 2 stops above neutral grey. So it won't lose the highlights. (If you don't have a DSLR, ignore all of the above :)

One more thing, if you don't have $1200 lenses and a good DSLR body, you aren't going to reproduce the quality of the shots the pros get of the players. You know the ones with them shooting from the waist up. So don't mess around with those too much. It seems like all pictures from pool tournaments look the same. Instead try to find some emotional or atmospheric shots that can become iconic for the pool scene or events at the tournament you are at. I think you'll find this to be much more rewarding. And much more valuable when you look back years from now and are remembering the tournament and the times you had there.

Just my $.02

~rc
 
one thing I do differently

I use my lightweight tripod instead of a monopod in low light. With two legs down and fairly close together it doesn't get in people's way and using it as a bipod on a level floor it is as quick and maneuverable as a monopod. If I really want to pan I can loosen the ball head but I find I rarely need to do this. My shots are far more stable using the tripod as a bipod than using just a monopod.

It will be rare for you to have enough light for best shooting. Bracketing exposures is one(noisy) option, shooting in raw and using Photoshop you can do pretty good doing your bracketing in the conversion process and merging the various exposures. You might want to research HDR processing too. I haven't seen anyone doing it with pool images and I would think there were some huge possibilities there. No camera has as wide a range as the human eye but you can "cheat" the image far closer to what the human eye sees.

Hu
 
because of the poor lighting conditions you would need a camera capable of many advanced settings:

ISO 1600-2000 or greater
continuous auto focus (if you use AF)
a f/2.8 or better lens
high speed burst capabilities

hopefully you'll find that you're shooting at least 1/50-1/80 with these settings

imo canon works best for these situations ;) and practice makes perfect, and the other posts in this thread have have good advice
 
I like what Jerry wrote. A little more:

Changing the F-Stop also changes the depth of field. Learn all you can about DOF!

The faster the lens, the better. Fast means lower F-stop. So a lens with a F2.8 is "faster" than a F4.5. Invest in your lenses. Buy great optics and the fastest lenses you can afford. You will regret that 70-210 with a 4.5 later on, regardless of how cheap it is now.

In the days of film, the rule was "One great shot per roll". So click away at a subject for 50-100 shots, with the objective of getting ONE really great shot.

SLR, SLR, SLR. Nowadays it's DSLR, but same diff.

You don't need a Hasselblad, but don't buy a cheap body. No use going off on a Nikon D700, but don't go for the D40 either. IMO, the D90 offers the best value in the market today for a fully-featured DSLR w/LiveView.

I'm an old-school shooter, so I love my F6 body though most peeps can't bother with film - at least for lower formats. Most of the time I use it in full manual mode, or aperture-priority only.

Other than that, spend the next X years studying up on the relationship between ISO, F stops and shutter speeds, focal points, DOF and lighting!
Document the conditions and cameras settings, and see the impact that playing with the settings has on the shot.

Sometimes I look at a pic and say, "jeez I wish I had knocked that down half a step" (1/2 f-stop lower), or "I shoulda used a slower film speed for those conditions".

I don't like relying on Photoshop or other post-mortem SW to fix a bad shot. Use SW to enhance an already great shot, not fix one.

Well, that was just a few random thoughts. Hope it helps.

-von
 
still true with digital and software editing

VonRhett said:
. . . . I don't like relying on Photoshop or other post-mortem SW to fix a bad shot. Use SW to enhance an already great shot, not fix one.

Well, that was just a few random thoughts. Hope it helps.

-von


A very nice post but I clipped most of it to focus on this portion. It is still very true that the best image captured makes the best final product. Despite claims, there is no such thing as lossless editing. Every step in editing costs a little quality. The improvements may outweigh the losses but the image would have been better had the edit never been needed at all.

Hu
 
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Everyone,

Thanks for your comments. When I bought my Canon 50D camera a month ago, I wasn't sure what kind of lens to get so I compromised by getting a Canon 70-300 mm. f4.5-5.6 USM Image Stabilizer lens. Although it's not the fastest lens in this class, this lens has actually gotten very good reviews.

I considered getting a Canon 70-200 mm. f4L lens. Perhaps it's a good thing that I didn't get that f4L lens as many of you would have said that it's not fast enough for pool photography and I should have gotten a f2.8L lens for $1200+.

I'm certainly not a professional photographer so I don't yet know that I have a need to spend considerably more for top-of-the-line lenses. For now, my goal is to get my feet wet with pool photography and if I'm interested in pursuing this further at a more advanced level, I can then buy higher quality lenses.
 
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PoolSharkAllen said:
Everyone,

Thanks for your comments. When I bought my Canon 50D camera a month ago, I wasn't sure what kind of lens to get so I compromised by getting a Canon 70-300 mm. f4.5-5.6 USM Image Stabilizer lens. Although it's not the fastest lens in this class, this lens has actually gotten very good reviews.

I considered getting a Canon 70-200 mm. f4L lens. Perhaps it's a good thing that I didn't get that f4L lens as many of you would have said that it's not fast enough for pool photography and I should have gotten a f2.8L lens for $1200+.

I'm certainly not a professional photographer so I don't yet know that I have a need to spend considerably more for top-of-the-line lenses. For now, my goal is to get my feet wet with pool photography and if I'm interested in pursuing this further at a more advanced level, I can then buy higher quality lenses.


If you ever think you want to get the 70-200 2.8L, consider renting it first to see if it will fit your needs. I did this a couple of weeks ago for a tournament. I was glad I could rent the lens somewhere first to try it out. Its a fantastic lens. I HIGHLY recommend lensprotogo.com for renting lenses. Superior customer service and their rates inlude shipping both to and from.
 
Try using a 150 - 200mm telephoto lens for a few reasons.

The depth of field (area in focus) will be better the farther you are away from your subject. If you learn to use the camera you can set the depth of field as needed such as fuzzing out the background.

There is less foreshortening (subjet's body parts are often distorted because you are too close). When I was a professional photographer I used a 90mm telephoto for portraits. Yields a much better result.

The subject is less likely to hear the shutter click if you are many feet away.

You can buy cords that will extend your flash unit and have someone closer to the subject with the flash. Better yet use a photographer's umbrella to fill in details and not upset the subject.

Always use flash to fill in the details.

If you can't use flash then get a few pieces of 24 X 24 white poster board from the drug store. Have someone stand on the other side of the subject (out of the camera's view) and point the poster board towards the subject. This can be used to fill in details and or add to the main light.

People tend to think that action shots are in some way important. They are usually not as good as a posed shot. You can usually set your camera (on a tripod) at another table. Read Kodak's small manuals on lighting and learn how to use a main light, fill lights and a highlighter on a snoot. Get a friend to help you set up the on site studio and position things as needed.

Bring a 12" X 12" mirror with you and place it in front of the camera so the subject can see what you are shooting. Tell them to tell you when they are ready. Alternatively, place the mirror so the subject sees their pose. Using the subject mirror I nearly always got the picture the female subject liked -- that is difficult to do with men and with women.

Try some odd angles with a willing subject. Nearly everyone uses the same angles. Try placing your camera on the bed of the table and looking up into the subject's face. Shoot from inside a pocket.

Think outside of the box.

In general, excellent photography is not about getting the action it is about getting creative and making a shot look natural.

Always shoot three shots, one an f stop under, one at the exposure, 1 over exposed.

Always use spot metering to shoot what is most important, the bridge, the ball, the face -- what are you primarily interested in. A neat shot would be to have the cue ball in focus and Jasmine out of focus and yet everyone would know it was her.

Zoom lenses are some of the worst lens. Flip for a dedicated set of lens from wide angle through about 200mm. Good lenses are not expensive and there is no need to buy name brand. I shot with a Pentax 35mm and a Yashica 2 1/4 for years and used X brand lenses. For really serious work you need a studio camera.

If you haven't bought a camera yet buy the one that gives the highest resolution you can afford and shoot everything at that resolution. Memory is cheap and your best pictures will blow up to 20 X 24, now we're talking photography. If I were still in the business I am sure I would study Photoshop or a related piece of software and then use it to "create" great pictures.

Photography is about having the best technology and knowing how to use it like you use a fork and a spoon. Then you can get creative. Most people don't learn to use their equipment and think they are artsey because they shoot a picture in low light or at 4X magnification.

One way to think about photography is that it is a medium to communicate an idea. First you need the idea then find a way to express it. Enough rambling. You can learn a great deal if you spend a day or two with a serious commercial photographer.

Couple of other tricks.
Never shoot someone head on. Makes them too wide. Ask them to point their shoulder at you.

In group photos tell the group that if they can see you, you can see them.

Good equipment is not expensive equipment. I was a professional for over ten years and never bought a new piece of equipment. The hobbiest buy the expensive stuff, trades it next year for the newest whatever. If its any good I got it for half price. Get to be friends with the people at the photo store and they will tell you when the good stuff comes around.

Get a manual or two on commercial photography, not a how to but a textbook and study it by taking the photos they describe. Kodak puts out some great technical manuals that are under appreciated.

Last one. Read some basic fine art books to learn about how to compose a picture to lead the viewer's eye to what you want them to look at. Study the photo ads in top shelf magazines and figure out how they did that and what they were trying to do. To this day, I still study commercial ads to see the latest lighting techniques. Photography is all about the use of light.
 
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JoeW said:
Try using a 150 - 200mm telephoto lens for a few reasons.

The depth of field (area in focus) will be better the farther you are away from your subject. If you learn to use the camera you can set the depth of field as needed such as fuzzing out the background.

There is less foreshortening (subjet's body parts are often distorted because you are too close). When I was a professional photographer I used a 90mm telephoto for portraits. Yields a much better result.

The subject is less likely to hear the shutter click if you are many feet away.

You can buy cords that will extend your flash unit and have someone closer to the subject with the flash. Better yet use a photographer's umbrella to fill in details and not upset the subject.

Always use flash to fill in the details.

If you can't use flash then get a few pieces of 24 X 24 white poster board from the drug store. Have someone stand on the other side of the subject (out of the camera's view) and point the poster board towards the subject. This can be used to fill in details and or add to the main light.

People tend to think that action shots are in some way important. They are usually not as good as a posed shot. You can usually set your camera (on a tripod) at another table. Read Kodak's small manuals on lighting and learn how to use a main light, fill lights and a highlighter on a snoot. Get a friend to help you set up the on site studio and position things as needed.

Bring a 12" X 12" mirror with you and place it in front of the camera so the subject can see what you are shooting. Tell them to tell you when they are ready. Alternatively, place the mirror so the subject sees their pose. Using the subject mirror I nearly always got the picture the female subject liked -- that is difficult to do with men and with women.

Try some odd angles with a willing subject. Nearly everyone uses the same angles. Try placing your camera on the bed of the table and looking up into the subject's face. Shoot from inside a pocket.

Think outside of the box.

In general, excellent photography is not about getting the action it is about getting creative and making a shot look natural.

Always shoot three shots, one an f stop under, one at the exposure, 1 over exposed.

Always use spot metering to shoot what is most important, the bridge, the ball, the face -- what are you primarily interested in. A neat shot would be to have the cue ball in focus and Jasmine out of focus and yet everyone would know it was her.

Zoom lenses are some of the worst lens. Flip for a dedicated set of lens from wide angle through about 200mm. Good lenses are not expensive and there is no need to buy name brand. I shot with a Pentax 35mm and a Yashica 2 1/4 for years and used X brand lenses. For really serious work you need a studio camera.

If you haven't bought a camera yet buy the one that gives the highest resolution you can afford and shoot everything at that resolution. Memory is cheap and your best pictures will blow up to 20 X 24, now we're talking photography. If I were still in the business I am sure I would study Photoshop or a related piece of software and then use it to "create" great pictures.

Photography is about having the best technology and knowing how to use it like you use a fork and a spoon. Then you can get creative. Most people don't learn to use their equipment and think they are artsey because they shoot a picture in low light or at 4X magnification.

One way to think about photography is that it is a medium to communicate an idea. First you need the idea then find a way to express it. Enough rambling. You can learn a great deal if you spend a day or two with a serious commercial photographer.

Couple of other tricks.
Never shoot someone head on. Makes them too wide. Ask them to point their shoulder at you.

In group photos tell the group that if they can see you, you can see them.

Good equipment is not expensive equipment. I was a professional for over ten years and never bought a new piece of equipment. The hobbiest buy the expensive stuff, trades it next year for the newest whatever. If its any good I got it for half price. Get to be friends with the people at the photo store and they will tell you when the good stuff comes around.

Get a manual or two on commercial photography, not a how to but a textbook and study it by taking the photos they describe. Kodak puts out some great technical manuals that are under appreciated.

Last one. Read some basic fine art books to learn about how to compose a picture to lead the viewer's eye to what you want them to look at. Study the photo ads in top shelf magazines and figure out how they did that and what they were trying to do. To this day, I still study commercial ads to see the latest lighting techniques. Photography is all about the use of light.

Joe, there is a lot of great advise in your post for shooting posed pictures in a controlled environment. However, this is not usually possible when it comes to pool photography.

IMHO, the best pool photos are taken at tournaments with the players in action. You never get the same expression with a posed photograph. In a good tournament photo, you see the concentration in the player's face and especially in his/her eyes.

If you want a great publicity photo, take the lights and the reflectors to the pool room and have the player pose for a picture taken with a good studio camera.

If you want a great pool photo, you have to learn to work quickly, deal with the available light and capture the moment using the best, and fastest, equipment you can afford.

CRW_2587.jpg
 
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Medications affecting your game

I have been taking Welbutrin (anti-depressant) for quite some time, I started to help me quit smoking, but that never happenend and the doctor kept refilling it and recently I went to a new doc and he asked why I was taking it and I really didn't know, so I stopped. About two weeks later I notice that my focus and concentration was just off the charts. Well come to find out that this medication has been affecting me in ways I didn't realize, it's crazy!!! I feel like now I just walk up to the table and I know where everyball is going, seeing all of the break outs and it's just made everything more simplified. I just thought I would share this with everyone to let everyone know what an impact these common meds can have on your game, especially if your taking them unecesarily like I was.
 
how is your aim now??

I think you just missed the thread you were trying to post into! :D :D :D

Hu

bankshot76 said:
I have been taking Welbutrin (anti-depressant) for quite some time, I started to help me quit smoking, but that never happenend and the doctor kept refilling it and recently I went to a new doc and he asked why I was taking it and I really didn't know, so I stopped. About two weeks later I notice that my focus and concentration was just off the charts. Well come to find out that this medication has been affecting me in ways I didn't realize, it's crazy!!! I feel like now I just walk up to the table and I know where everyball is going, seeing all of the break outs and it's just made everything more simplified. I just thought I would share this with everyone to let everyone know what an impact these common meds can have on your game, especially if your taking them unecesarily like I was.
 
Rich R. said:
If you want a great pool photo, you have to learn to work quickly, deal with the available light and capture the moment using the best, and fastest, equipment you can afford.

At the moment, dealing with the available light might be my biggest problem -- there isn't enough light at some of the pool halls that I play at.

Last night, I tried out my Canon 50D at a pool hall that I frequently play at. The lens I was using was a Canon 70-300 mm. f4.5-5.6 USM IS zoom lens.

In looking back at the pictures that I took, the typical settings were shutter priority, f4.5 aperture, 1/15 second exposure, ISO 1600. My lens has an image stabilizer which allows me to use a slower shutter speed and prevent camera shake for 2-3 f-stops. I was forced to use the 1/15 second exposure as the camera picture preview kept telling me that I had insufficient light to take the picture. The trade-off in using such a slow shutter speed is motion blur of the subject.

In a dimly lit pool hall setting, it appears to me that I'm pushing my camera equipment to the limit.

In a different setting such as in a hotel ballroom where professional pool players or amateurs play in, the lighting is much better and my camera equipment may do just fine.
 
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PoolSharkAllen said:
At the moment, dealing with the available light might be my biggest problem -- there isn't enough light at some of the pool halls that I play at.

Last night, I tried out my Canon 50D at a pool hall that I frequently play at. The lens I was using was a Canon 70-300 mm. f4.5-5.6 USM IS lens.

In looking back at the pictures that I took, the typical settings were shutter priority, f4.5 aperture, 1/15 second exposure, ISO 1600. My lens has an image stabilizer which allows me to use a slower shutter speed and prevent camera shake for 2-3 f-stops. I was forced to use the 1/15 second exposure as the camera picture preview kept telling me that I had insufficient light to take the picture. The trade-off in using such a slow shutter speed is motion blur of the subject.

In a dimly lit pool hall setting, I'm apparently pushing my camera equipment to the limit.

In a different setting such as in a hotel ballroom where professional pool players or amateurs play in, the lighting is much better and my camera equipment may do just fine.

Dealing with the available light is the biggest problem for anyone taking pool pictures at a tournament or in a pool hall.

As others have said, fast lenses are a must for these situations.
I use the Canon 70-200 f2.8 USM IS lens and I still have problems in some situations. In time, you will learn little tricks to get good pictures in the worst conditions. In dark pool rooms, you will have to take most of your photos when the player is under the table lights. They help a lot.

Bad lighting is not only found in your local pool room. Some major tournaments have a very well lit table for the TV and video crew, however, other tables are very poorly lit from a photo standpoint.

To get good pictures at a pool tournament, we all have to push our equipment to the limit, regardless of how good or poor the equipment is. With a little thought, and practice, you will always be able to get a few good pictures. Remember, the fun is in the hunt. :wink:
 
in a typical poolroom i would say that you'd want fast glass and a shutter priority setting, and just set the shutter to about 1/100 of a sec or faster to get sharp images, faster with a longer lens. this will probably force the camera into being wide open, or having the smallest aperature number, this is good as the background will blur. the reason you dont want or need apeture priority mode is that your aperature in a poolroom when at a relatively high shutter speed (eg 100 or 200) will probably be almost always wide open in any case.

another noteworthy point, my camera has a nice auto iso feature on it where the camera will choose the lowest iso possible after i tell it what the slowest possible shutter speed it can use is.

so, you'll have a "fast enough" shutter speed set in shutter priority, and now the auto iso in the camera will pick the lowest iso for the particular image. and if i was using a say 50-200mm lens, i would probably choose my slowest shutter speed at about 1/200 sec. AND I would have my vibration reduction enabled, which may relinquish the need for a monopod, who knows. in fact, if i were you looking for a new lens, i may look more for a cheaper, slower, vibration reduction lense as they would prove to be much less restrictive in a poolroom environment (who said you get what you pay for?). but that would be my setup. good luck.

futher, i dont know how serious you are, but for the noise, i believe they have cameras with completely "electronic" shutters. i dont have any experience with them, but i have read about them and i would assume they make very little, if any noise..... but not sure.
 
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I just invested in the same Canon 50D and the Canon 70-200 f2.8L IS. I had the opportunity to use it here in Texas for the first time at a tournament. At first I got mixed results. Then I talked to the person who recommended that set-up to me. He told me, as far as settings go, set the f-stop as low as you can, turn the flash off, and use everything else on auto. And make sure you use a monopod.

Sigma makes a 70-200 f2.8 lense without IS for a decent price, ($700 roundabouts I think), but without the IS, you MUST use a monopod. Oh yea, the take alot of quantity to get quality statement is so true. Found that out this weekend. Took about 500 pictures this weekend and I was averaging about 1/30 that were usable. I'm sure that will improve over time, but first time out, I'm not going to complain. Here are some of the photos that I took this weekend.

Heather Lloyd
FastEddiesSanAntonio3210.jpg


Kyu Yi
SanAntonio4167.jpg


David G
FastEddiesSanAntonio3246.jpg


Shane Van Boening
FastEddiesSanAntonio3149.jpg


Sarah Rousey
FastEddiesSanAntonio064.jpg


Jason Klatt
FastEddiesSanAntonio3018.jpg
 
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